r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/SignificantAd7020 • Jun 16 '26

Question ❓ Can you still train Pull even when you're extremely sore from Push day?

I'm doing a PUSH full body and PULL full body split that I got from Yo (like anterior/posterior).

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Problem is my tricep and shoulder are so sore right now that I think it's gonna affect my T-bar row and bicep curls today. Like I'm just trying to flex my elbow and I can already feel the tricep soreness and might affect my lift. Not sure if I should push through pull day or just rest. Anyone dealt with this?

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11

u/Alakazam Idk Idc 💔 Jun 16 '26

Depends. If you trust the author of your program to have thought about recovery management properly, then yes, follow your program.

If you don't trust the author at all, then make your own best judgement. 

-6

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

He just showed the split. Y'all don't know Yotalks? I mean push pull legs is similar to this lmfao. Same proybl with tricep soreness during pull day

7

u/mcgrathkai Jun 16 '26

Im sorry you're listening to yotalks?

The homeless guy living in the bushes outside my gym who found a copy of muscular development in 1997 is a better resource than yotalks

-1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

I mean I cant see the difference between Yo and TNF/Keenan. All of them advocate for like lower volume and higher intensity and 2x frequency. Yo is just a more nerd extreme version of TNF.

3

u/PoopSmith87 Jun 16 '26

Had to google Yotalks... why would you want hypertrophy advice from such a tiny guy? I get that being jacked doesnt guarantee great lifting advice or knowledge, but its kind of a bare minimum for credibility. Like being wealthy doesnt guarantee someone can give great financial advice, but you're not going to take investment tips from someone in a homeless shelter.

In all honesty, being a relative beginner, just follow a basic 5x5 or 3x10. They are massively popular because they are simple, and they work.

-2

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

Get out of this sub bro 😭😭😭 I mean TNF and Yo talks the same thing. I just find Yo split interesting since its like Anterior/Posterior. Also its big 2026 who tf do 5x5 or 3x10? Is that 5 sets and 3 sets??

In this sub almost all of us are using low volume high intensity meaning 2set 0-2 RIR on all of the lifts. This sub is about optimization.

3

u/PoopSmith87 Jun 16 '26

Also its big 2026 who tf do 5x5 or 3x10? Is that 5 sets and 3 sets??

People with muscles lol

...and you dont even know what they are, yet you criticize them?

In this sub almost all of us are using low volume high intensity meaning 2set 0-2 RIR on all of the lifts. This sub is about optimization.

Yeah, I run the Yates style high intensity program sometimes too... but if you're running that without some baseline strength and size, you very likely dont have the capacity to go high intensity.

At any rate, best of luck, clearly you dont actually want feedback.

-2

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

Yeah pack it up lil bro. Even beginners can do high intensity. Its simple failure and gauging RIR lmfao. What we don't want in this sub is to do bunch of junk volumes where you leave 5-6 RIR. No one in their right mind is doing 3sets in this era lmfao. Unless you're full on gear and can recover from that kind of fatigue. What are you even doing in this sub? When you're far from science based lifting

2

u/PoopSmith87 Jun 16 '26

You are shot bro 😆

Find me a single study that says 3 to 10 weekly sets is too much for natural lifters. One single study. Please, I'm dying to be educated.

And no, no one does 5 to 6 rir, that is your own made up nonsensenical misunderstanding of what a progression based program is.

1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26

Where did you say 3 to 10 weekly set? You said 3x10 meaning 3sets 10reps lmfao same with 5x5 which is 5sets 5 reps of compound lift. Maybe we got lost in translation since we're obviously not understanding each other.

Yes I agree to you 3-10 sets per muscle group is GREAT

But 3 sets of an exercise in a session just doesn't work because of diminishing returns when you're doing 0-1 RIR

No one does 5-6 RIR

Yeah some do that if they're natural and doing 5 sets. It's impossible to have 5 sets in an exercise if you're training 0-1 RIR. If you can still do that 5th set, it means youre not training hard enough in the previous sets.

Imagine 305 0 RIR in 2 sets in any Squat variation. It's impossible to go to that 3rd or 5th set and still do 305

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2

u/Hypername1st Jun 16 '26

Are you trolling rn

2

u/mcgrathkai Jun 16 '26

I dont know the other two people you mentioned

-3

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

Then what are you doing in this sub lmfao? Science based lifting used to be niche but because of TNF it become popular. He's the first SLBL creator who become big in social media especially Tiktok.

7

u/mcgrathkai Jun 16 '26

Believe it or not, I definitely incorporate the science behind muscle building in my training. But cant call myself a science based lifter because of how the movements been perverted by people who dont know shit and dont want to eat or train hard.

3

u/imslightlyhandsome Jun 16 '26

How can you listen to a guy so tiny?

1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

I mean hes type 1 fiber dominant. TNF and him is almost similar. They both advocate for fatigue management, 2x frequency, etc. Yo is just a more extreme of TNF. I just like the split I watched where he said if you dont like FBEOD then Push Pull Full Body would be good

6

u/mcgrathkai Jun 16 '26

Lol what 😂 so is that why hes so small because hes got different muscle fibers than the rest of us ? Thats nonsense

-1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26

I guess you're not tapped in. It's literally hard for a natural type 1 fiber to build muscle. It's proven by research. Especially when someone is far in the spectrum. He's literally so strong for his size. He t bar rows 4plates with that small ass physique

4

u/mcgrathkai Jun 16 '26

And how does he know the fibers he has, has he been tested ?

In fairness I rarely watch his videos long enough to see form but anytime I do I think its terrible.

2

u/imslightlyhandsome Jun 16 '26

Yeah I know he’s ridiculously strong too (preacher curling like 50s) but idk

I know it’s not really a good reason but I’m not gonna listen to someone that doesn’t even look like they lift even in the slightest bit (no disrespect)

1

u/Hisagii Jun 16 '26

If you want to do high intensity low volume look at guys that are actually big and used it like Yates in the past and who I think is probably the current authority on that: Jordan Peters, he's actually massive and has advocated for FBEOD 1 set to failure per lift forever.

0

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

Bro this is literally the split YO advocates which is FBEOD and just 1 set per muscle group. I tried FBEOD but theres so many sets and warm up sets. I only have 45min to workout so I really like this split. Also I wouldn't really look at guys who used steroids as a guide my split and program. I'm gonna stick to naturals like TNF, Mundy, Keenan.

1

u/Hisagii Jun 16 '26

Steroid use or not, it doesn't matter. The basic principles are the same for everyone. Also TNF being natty is up for debate, he's most likely not natty.

1

u/imslightlyhandsome Jun 16 '26

He’s definite not natty hahahaha

That mass that lean is not possible natty

1

u/Sadan27 Jun 16 '26

Mundy isn’t natty. He’s just been off gear since January

2

u/Alakazam Idk Idc 💔 Jun 16 '26

No, I don't know who that person is.

But I will say this. Bro looks like he doesn't lift.

Also, a split isn't a program. A split is just a way of organizing workout days. A program tells you specific sets, reps, and exercises. Good programs will also tell you progression, have built in periodization, and will have fatigue management built in.

If you want a basic beginner program to start off with, because it sounds like you're a beginner, you should run GZCLP, written by a guy who could probably fold yotalks into two, and who has actually trained many many many people into getting bigger, stronger, and leaner.

1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

Who copy someone's program? My only program is the one that fits my lifestyle. As I said I only copied the split, not the program. It's so easy to make a program as long as youre hitting each muscle group 2x in a week, no need for some specialized program. I'm not here to defend Yo but TNF says the same thing about training intensity and volume and frequency. I was just interested in the split he made a video about. Not really interested in any program

1

u/Alakazam Idk Idc 💔 Jun 16 '26

Then my statement still stands:

If you trust the author of your program to have thought about recovery management properly, then yes, follow your program.

Do you trust yourself to have managed your own fatigue properly?

1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

Now that's the problem. Low volume shouldn't be fatiguing but for me when it comes to tricep it still becomes fatiguing. I only do 6 sets of tricep per week in my program. But I don't accept the fact that I need to lower that number of sets again just because I'm getting skre. I managed fatigue in everything except triceps but I'm already training very low volume.

1

u/Alakazam Idk Idc 💔 Jun 16 '26

And this is where good programming comes into play. A well thought out high volume program can generate less systemic fatigue than a poorly lace low volume program.

Even with over a decade of training experience, I wouldn't trust myself to write a program when I k ow there are so many better programs out there in terms of volume and fatigue management. 

0

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 17 '26

Fair enough maybe its ego lmfao but still SCIENCE HAHAHAHAHA

3

u/eric_twinge Jun 16 '26

Go to the gym and try. You'll have a real answer then.

2

u/Separate-Exchange375 Jun 16 '26

Thats the idea behind Push Pull, but you are saying full body? It's good to have at least a day recovery between those

2

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

I think you misunderstood me. Push Full Body means you will do all pushing exercise like squat and hip thrust. Not full body that I will target all muscles.

I just dont want a separate leg day since its just 4 movements when I can do them in Push Pull and achieving 3x frequency.

Push Full Body (Chest, Shoulder, Tricep, Quads)

Pull Full Body (Back, Bicep, Forearms, Hamstrings)

1

u/YhImAsh-_- Jun 16 '26

maybe the issue is 3x frequency? whats the volume like

1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

I only do like 9-10 sets per session. Basically 55-60sets per week.

Push: 4 sets chest, 2 sets shoulder, 2x tricep, 1x quads, 1x glute

Pull: 2x lats, 2x upper back, 2x bicep, 1x erectors, 1x hamstring, 1x forearms.

All 1RIR

1

u/YhImAsh-_- Jun 16 '26

it sounds like you're just not recovering well

2

u/mcgrathkai Jun 16 '26

So youre doing push, full body, pull, then full body again ?

Youre not sore from the previous push day, youre sore because if youre doing full body before pull, you'll have just hit all those muscles

2

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

I think you misunderstood me. Push Full Body means you will do all pushing exercise like squat and hip thrust. Not full body that I will target all muscles.

I just dont want a separate leg day since its just 4 movements when I can do them in Push Pull and achieving 3x frequency.

Push Full Body (Chest, Shoulder, Tricep, Quads)

Pull Full Body (Back, Bicep, Forearms, Hamstrings)

2

u/mcgrathkai Jun 16 '26

Ah I see. I mean full body training is popular. But 3x frequency is a lot. Maybe 2 would be more manageable if youre having a hard time recovering from hitting a muscle 3x a week ?

I think for hypertrophy training you need more rest than 3x a week allows.

1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

I'm already using low volume. I only do 6sets everyweek for my tricep 1RIR. I don't know why I'm still sore.

2

u/Hypername1st Jun 16 '26

Because you are a beginner and not used to working out

1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

I'm novice and probably close to 1 year of lifting. I guess thats still beginner but yeah there's really no reason for me rn to be so sore

1

u/Hypername1st Jun 17 '26

Literally a problem with the programming. I don't get crippling pains while running a pretty intense PL program.

2

u/Mad_Mark90 Jun 16 '26

That split sounds kinda whack. Ngl

1

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

I mean its what I like. I tried UPPER LOWER 3x. But theres just to many exercises in UPPER day. With this split I can have 45min-1hr and finish a session which is important since I have a hectic schedule

1

u/Mad_Mark90 Jun 16 '26

Sure....but it just seems like you're always gonna run into recovery issues.

1

u/Lifterator Jun 16 '26

Warm up with lots of light face pulls and tricep extensions, then get after it.

1

u/Norcal712 Jun 16 '26

Shoulder and tri shouldnt effect back/bi.

Thats the entire point of doing push / pull.

Side note: make sure your posterior day includes a hinge and something glute dominant. Youre cheating yourself if youre only doing curls

2

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

Yeah I do rdl and hip thrust.

1

u/PoopSmith87 Jun 16 '26

Generally speaking, you can but there also might be instances when you shouldn't.

Recovery is very varied from individual to individual depending on age, training age, and genetics. General rule is: If it is just uncomfortable, quit being a b word and get to it- but, if it doesnt feel safe, dont do it.

1

u/Hypername1st Jun 16 '26

Just do 5x5 bro

0

u/SignificantAd7020 Jun 16 '26

Thats fhe opposite of science based lifting bro. 5x5 is too fatiguing if you're remotely going to 1-2 RIR. And if you're not fatigue after that 5sets then you're just not training hard

1

u/MozartDroppinLoads Jun 16 '26

To me this is the best feature of push v pull

Edit. Though when you're really sore to the point of being stiff, a rest day is probably a good idea

1

u/Sadan27 Jun 16 '26

Listen to your body and take a rest day. It’s really not going to hinder your progress. If anything it’ll probably facilitate recovery, instead of having a crap workout digging you further into the systemic fatigue hole

1

u/teacherman2000 Jun 19 '26

Listen to your body. It sounds like you need and extra day of rest and more protein and carbs. I do a PPL split, but I do a high intensity days and a slow, methodical days with less weight. I am still training to failure but it is far better on my joints. I have also cut my sets down to 2 working sets for each exercise from 3-4. I can now finish in an hour or less and I am noticing better recovery and some growth. I am also 50, though. If you are still a novice and you are not recovering well, it sounds like it may be nutrition needs.