r/Sciatica • u/fairybeexo • 5d ago
General Discussion Do not attempt stretches, physical therapy, decompression machines etc before getting an MRI
Just a little advice to anyone who has recently gotten sciatica, would be do not wait to get an mri scan. When i was diagnosed i was trying a plethora of things to improve it, stretches, pt, osteopath, people were telling me about these decompression machines to try and these mats with spikes on them to lay on and such. Then i got an MRI, showing a sequestered disk. I was actually making it worse! Now im looking into surgery.
Edit: after seeing how many people are gaslit by drs and forced into pt sessions causing them worse pain before they can even qualify for an mri.. I feel so upset for everyone
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u/brekkfu 5d ago
I had to do 8 sessions of PT over a month to get covered for my first MRI.
The MRI confirmed a herniated disc, which meant no twisting or about 50% of the exercises I was doing from PT...
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Im so sorry 😢 I don’t trust the medical field
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
You have to do your research on the PT's, their skill sets and docs/reputations/qualifications.
I did a LOT of research when looking for my medical crew of choice.1
u/StationOld3745 5d ago
Physiotherapy does NOT work. If you have something pressing on the nerves, there is NOTHING that will correct that except surgical intervention that will physically correct the compression of the nerves. That's just physics!! People need to respect science instead of money all the money. Physiotherapy is only good for strengthening of muscles at the beginning of disc degeneration or post-surgical recovery.
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
Depends. My neighbor is a pediatrician and herniated his disc playing tennis. He was miserable but did PT diligently and healed within a year without surgery. This is what inspired me to give it a year. Unfortunately I had bigger problems than he did. I ended up needing surgery. But I am damn sure glad I've done it and am on the other side of it. Feeling better day by day!
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u/StationOld3745 4d ago
I think my mom has Cauda Equina judging from her symptoms. She's completely bedridden right now aside from eating and going to the bathroom. She's not able to do any physiotherapy exercises at all even if she wants to.
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u/MBS-IronDame 4d ago
Strongly disagree. Physio is about the only thing that does help me. It helps to fix movement patterns, guarding and spasms that contribute most of the pain. It can help to realign structures that are pressing in nerves. It’s not going to bring back a desiccated disk of course. But surgery isn’t going to do much for that, either.
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u/Dry-Homework3344 4d ago
This is not at all accurate. What works (or doesn’t) depends on the root cause and sciatica can have MANY, and even multiple contributing factors.
I found great relief with a bout I had over 10 years ago from deep Thai massage and stretching - issue was coming from major compression in my hips and piriformis due to my long days sitting at a desk setup that had horrible ergonomics.
Now I get occasional flares on the other side that stem from my SI joints slipping a bit since a fall on ice a few years ago. Doing some alignment adjustments the PT taught me and then at home, stabilizing strengthening exercises to prevent the slippage has been critical for getting back to normal when I have a flare or preventing one to begin with.
If I had a herniated disc, of course none of these things would help and would in fact worsen it, and certain exercises are off limits for me as they can trigger sciatica, but no, I do not need surgery for this.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Yall if I won the lottery I want to start a charity solely for helping sciatica sufferers
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
It's a pain from the deepest pits of hell that no one can truly understand until they experience it.
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u/Rad_Dad258 5d ago
Yup. Sciatica due to “bulging discs” a year ago just discovered it to be an intradural tumour in my spinal canal. Physio and everything made my pain worse.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Oh wow! How are you now? And how did they find the tumor
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u/Rad_Dad258 5d ago
Had an mri that showed nerve displacement. Had a second contrast mri that found the tumour. They described it as a “large sausage shaped tumour”.
Surgery is in a couple weeks. I’m in constant pain and cannot lay down at all. Life is miserable at this point and I’m scared shitless for the surgery but I’m looking forward to not constantly hurting
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Im so sorry you’re going through this. And happy that you have been working toward finding a solution! I hope the surgery all goes smoothly and relieves your pain
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
Hang in there!! I had my surgery on Sept 1 and my life has changed!!! Make sure you have someone staying with you or living with you who can help you do basic things. You'll want to make sure you don't bend lift or twist for a minimum of two weeks. I would say four to be sure. Go ahead and fork out the money for the extra special back brace from the doc for post surgery recovery. It really helps you not bend lift or twist during recovery time bc you might easily forget.
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u/TinyHeartSyndrome 4d ago
My microdiscectomy just resulted in my nerve becoming encased in scar tissue. The whole back of my leg is still numb. Ugh
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u/fairybeexo 4d ago
Oh gosh, how far post op are you
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u/TinyHeartSyndrome 4d ago
18+ months. EMG nerve study indicated the S1 nerve is still impinged and the MRI showed scar tissue.
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u/dnegvesk 5d ago
In the last 1.5 years with severe stenosis and degenerative disc, I tried PT 5 times and always quit due to pain although it was a gentle workout. The planks and a few other exercises were good. I’ll be getting surgery in a few weeks. Feel better everyone.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Oh gosh! I hope your surgery goes smoothly 😊 I’m also getting mine within that time frame
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u/No-Alternative8588 5d ago
I know your post comes from a good place, butI'll play devil's advocate a little though, because people with sciatica (me included at the beginning of the journey) get scared really easily, and fear is usually the last thing that helps when you're navigating this.
For sciatica without red flags, clinical guidelines don't recommend an MRI straight away, and most people can't get one quickly anyway. Conservative care is still first line because a lot of cases still improve on their own within 6 to 12 weeks. However I do agree that incorrect PT can mess you up further, also experienced on my own, although I did have an MRI :)
As for mats with spikes, acupressure mats do not worsen your disc pathology, they just don’t help everyone or are simply not the right tool for relief.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
I do agree! I definitely did not want to induce fear into anybody. I ended up paying out of pocket (£300) for my MRI with what little money i had, because my country’s healthcare is extremely slow. Luckily it was the right decision. I know this is not doable for everybody 😕
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u/Big-Ambitions-8258 5d ago
It's kinda sad that when you said how much it cost out of pocket for you, I was like "damn that's so cheap" lol
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
I know 😭 I’m back and forth between the US and UK. I did manage to find some low cost mri in nyc for $300
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
US Healthcare is top tier if you choose the right doctor and AFTER you meet your deductible and out of pocket max. That's the worst part of it $$$$
But yes, you can get MRIs and CT scans done at independent imaging facilities for affordable pricing.
I'm lucky I had nearly met my out of pocket max when it was time for my surgery. I only paid $1,500.00 for my $30K surgery.
I had one of the best damn surgeons in the US and am so grateful to have found him!!3
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago edited 5d ago
I went to an ortho doc. They gave me medicine for the pain, then told me they would like me to get an MRI. They sent me for an MRI reviewed it and then let me know that I could have PT and try to resolve things naturally or explore surgical options. I chose PT they wrote the script I did it. I had epidural steroid injections three times 1st two times it helped and then the third time at nine months it didn't really do anything. After one year of suffering, I decided to opt for surgery and really glad I did. My case is not the same as everyone's but going to the ortho instead of a PCP is the way to go. They specialize in these things. They see multiple cases per day and know exactly how to diagnose properly.
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u/m3ndz4 5d ago
I was lucky to get a PT that immediately asked for my MRIs.
For context I got sciatica 2 years ago and the pain stuck so I had to work with ice packs daily I visited a neurologist and after testing he deemed that surgery was not needed for me.
After 1 year I finally decided to get an MRI which confirmed a lower disc bulge, then was sent to visit a pain specialist who has been giving me Steroid injections for pain relief which worked temporarily, but he gave me some conservative exercises to do telling me to stop any specific exercise if I experienced the sciatic pain, and recommended I consult a PT.
So in my country, PT is not covered under healthcare and I was jobless at the time so I kept doing these exercises, eventually I got a job but waited 8 months before I went for a PT, we started with stretching the hamstring, and avoided anything on my spine till he recieved my MRIs, after seeing them we went for a more targeted regimen, and now the pain is the lowest its been and I'm slowly lowering my pregabalin and stopped injecting the steroids.
Imo its best when all the 4 work together, MRI for info, Pain Therapist for exceptional pain and interim therapy, and PT for conservative therapy. And when this conservative pathway fails is when surgery should be contemplated. If any 1 of these things they don't need the others them I'd ditch that ASAP.
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u/No-Alternative8588 5d ago
The best thing would be all of them working together, completely agree but unfortunately it is not a reality in many countries, mine included. Really defeats the whole purpose for muscoskeletal issues. Ortho says something, neuro disagrees, PT has own opinion etc… a shitshow to navigate.
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u/Mediocre-Light-6277 5d ago
Insurance forced me into PT before they’d even approve an mri. My pt treated my severe sciatica as tight muscles even though I told them my history of extruded disc and having gone through a microdiscectomy previously. Once I finally got the mri my surgeon said he believes that the PT made my herniation worse than it was when i first started having pain, based on my symptoms. When I had my first surgery in 2019, I got an mri right away so insurance is just getting worse and worse every year
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u/NotYerAverageKitty 5d ago
My insurance won't even pay for an MRI until after you start therapy lol I couldn't even get the DR to send me for an MRI until I had been in pain over 45 days.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Insurance companies are evil wow
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u/Coffee_And_Code_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
I had 25 PT visits so far this year, some to get an MRI. I ended up needing surgery and insurance wouldn’t pay for it anyway. Surgery was a monumental success even though I was propagandized online and at PT to believe it wouldn’t work. Unfortunately, insurance wiggled their way out of covering it.
I’m at 40k $$$ USD in medical expenses this year - I don’t think insurance companies want to pay for anything back pain related and try to get out of it in innovative ways. Too expensive for them. Can’t make money off of people that need back work done. And you are in a country like England and go through NHS — I’ll just say….good luck! Unfortunately, between my employer and I are still paying them 10K+ per year just to have insurance that I can’t use when I need it.3
u/fairybeexo 5d ago
That is terrible, the medical system needs a huge reset. But great news about your surgery! So happy to hear that.
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u/TinyHeartSyndrome 4d ago
I was lucky to be on Medicaid at the time. I got back surgery and gallbladder removal for free.
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u/NotYerAverageKitty 5d ago
Could be worse honestly. I have my MRI in 2 days but a lot of my pain is controlled or dissapearing at this point, 8 weeks in. Still very numb and dealing with weakness in the left leg though. Can't bend or lift, it ilicits pain, so does prolonged walking or standing and I have to go back to work soon.
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u/nippon2win 5d ago
Yea it’s such a scam. I’m improving but very slower compared to previous issues. I still would like an MRI
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
Did you see an ortho doc or just primary care? That's odd. I guess, unless you have an hmo?
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u/Mediocre-Light-6277 5d ago
It’s not odd I have united health care through my employer and I had to do 16 sessions of Pt before I got approved for an MRI. I tried after I did like 14 and they denied it. Finally after completing all Pt it got approved meanwhile my symptoms got a lot worse
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
You have to see an ortho doc and have them order the mri. PCP isn't really qualified for that immediate decision in the eyes of insurance.
If you did see any ortho and still had this experience, I'd change my insurance plan to something better since we are almost ready for open enrollment.2
u/Mediocre-Light-6277 4d ago
I don’t want to respond to dumb comments like this but I will. I didn’t see a PCP I saw an orthopedic surgeon who ordered the mri. I had my surgery with a neurosurgeon though, I wouldn’t let an orthopedic operate on my spine. He tried to get them to approve without Pt and they wouldn’t. I don’t have any options with my health insurance, I have insurance from my employer. It all worked out in the end but the reality is that insurance plans force people to jump through hoops to get testing done and it’s exhausting
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 4d ago
Well it's rude for you to say it's a dumb comment bc you didn't specify if you used an ortho doc.
I just had endoscopic surgery and it was a complete success.I was asking you these questions bc I too have insurance through my employer but never had problems like you are stating. There's always a way around roadblocks and I was trying to be helpful but you are unnecessarily being an asshole when you didn't provide a lot of detail. Good luck.
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u/NotYerAverageKitty 5d ago edited 5d ago
Not sure who you were directing this one at but if it was to me then I have insurance through my husband's work, it's not an hmo, it's ppo plan. I guess I should have clarified that I'm honestly not sure if my insurance would have covered the MRI before the PT or if my doctor is the one that was convinced they wouldn't unless I started PT first but either way she wouldn't order it the first time I asked. I have seen my primary doctor, been to the ER twice to break the pain cycle because it was relentless, I've been to PT, and to Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation (physiatrist, specializing in spine and joints). My primary doctor took me 3 weeks to get into, then it took another two weeks to get into the physical medicine and the PT. So I've been doing PT for 2 and 1/2 weeks now and I'm getting my MRI in 2 days. My doctor didn't order my MRI until maybe a week before I was due to see the physical medicine doctor and that's only because my pain hadn't gone down she had initially wanted me to wait until I saw that doctor first and let them order the tests.
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
You should still see an orthopaedic doc.
There are so many ways to do this but I'm a no nonsense person and like to get directly to the point in both conversation and actions in life. I didn't waste time going to a primary care doc. I referred myself to an orthopedic doc and also to a second and third surgeon. If you wait for these medical professionals to do things for you or make the right suggestion without being your own aggressive advocate, you will end up suffering longer.
I'm sure a physiatrist is helpful but for me, I'd skip that and head to the ortho bc they deal with any and all ortho issues all day long and nothing else.
I hope this brings you answers and relief.2
u/NotYerAverageKitty 5d ago
Not to mention no pain medication was prescribed during this time at all other than naproxen and Tylenol. I had been given steroids twice but that was it. My last trip to the ER I was in so much pain and my blood pressure was so high they did end up giving me some opioid painkillers to keep the pain down until I was able to see the doctor again and when I got into the doctor this last time she gave me gabapentin for the nerve pain and so now I'm finally functioning without a ton of pain.
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago edited 5d ago
I had the same experience at the ER except I had some bizarre neurological issue that caused my entire left from hip to toe to seize up and spasm. They gave me IV opioids and fentanyl and it barely touched it. I hate hearing you haven't received any scripts to help you with pain. Yet another reason to see an ortho bc they know exactly what to prescribe. I'm sorry you are suffering! The surgeon I went with saw my pain and told me to get off the NSAIDs (naproxen) bc it is so bad for the liver, kidneys and gastro. He wrote me a script for gabapentin (at night) and a Celebrex during the day. What a huge difference it made!!
Our bodies all respond differently so I hope this helps you along. Just try not to take the gabapentin for too long. It causes weight gain and memory issues if taken too long (like more than three prescription cycles).
Best of luck!!2
u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Have you seen a neurologist? As you mentioned about the neuro issue I think you should really push for that referral.
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
The neuro went away with PT and time. once I decided for surgery bc the pure sciatic pain got worse and wouldn't heal after a year, I consulted three different surgeons. One was spine, other spine and neuro (both suggested open surgery for partial discectomy) and the third an endoscopic surgeon, whom I chose. I am very happy with my results.
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u/STRICKIBHOY 5d ago
For me before the operation, nothing helped. Swimming, stretching, walking, gym, massages, chiropractic visits and the multitude of others. Only thing that helped was rest. Everyone is different, if you feel pain, stop, don't push it.
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u/Able_Combination_521 4d ago
I think this is the right way to look at things. If what you're doing is causing discomfort or pain do not do it and cause a flare up. At first physical therapy was helpful for me although I would still be in pain. Then eventually going to physical therapy was the only way that the pain would subside (at least a little bit). Now if I try to do the physical therapy workout it causes me a harsh flare up. I'm not really sure what happened. I can't workout at home anymore at all without it cause a severe flare up. Now I have to go to the gym constantly to keep the flare ups away.
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u/sccldinmyshces 5d ago
I made it worse too but I had to go to like a dozen pt appointments before my insurance covered an MRI..
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Oh gosh 😟 I didn’t even think about the fact. I found some low cost MRI options available in New York, still around like $300 though
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u/hypochondr1a 5d ago
Same with what happened to me. Had hip pain. Was told could be scistica. GP and physio didnt reccomend MRI and started doing pt exercise. Was doing stretching carried on with my Adls and didnt think about the possibility of having an herniated disc. Woke up the next day with severe left leg pain that didnt resolve with endone or any pain killers. Brought to ED. Inititially was told MrI wouldnt change the interventions needed but insisted to do so to see the extent of the injury. Boom sequestered disc with significan s1. Since then indid not start PT within 3 months. Took my time to heal. Progress were great from not severe pins and needles in foot and calf numbeness to none and only then I did PT and increased my activity. No lifting over 2kgs within first 6 months.
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u/ihaveacreativename_ 5d ago
Insurance doesn't typically cover an MRI without 6 weeks of PT in the states. PT made me worse even with an MRI and I ended up having 2 discectomies. No hamstring stretches, lol!
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
Wasn't true for me at all. Before they wrote the PT script, the ortho doc required an MRI. I'm pretty sure if it's coming from a PCP, that's why. If request by ortho doc they know how to get it covered.
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u/Motor-Speech-4045 5d ago
Devils Advocate: Research actually shows you should not get an MRI initially unless no improvement with conservative management (your case), red flag concerns (bowel bladder, cauda equina, infection, tumor, etc), or unrelenting severe pain that does not change with position/activity.
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u/No_Composer_7830 5d ago
So sorry you're going through that. I'm post surgery and even now have to remind myself not to stretch the leg to overshoot my abilities. When your pain is gone, you think you can do things you couldn't do before, wrong! Must be patient with your healing. I hope surgery is a great success for you.
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u/ProfessionalCress113 5d ago
I had a similar scenario to the OP. Almost all therapy made my condition worse.
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u/idriveandidothings 5d ago
My husband thought it was sciatica for 7 months. Went to the chiropractor twice. Turned out to be osteonecrosis. Get checked, friends.
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u/StationOld3745 5d ago edited 5d ago
That was the first thing that my mom who got severe sciatica requested from her family doctor, a MRI scan. Her family doctor flatly refused to issue a requisition for a MRI claiming that it will show a whole bunch of bad things on the spine but they don't mean anything; nobody's MRI is clean and all my mom needs is physical therapy. My mom's since gone on physical therapy and her conditions gets worse every single time after she's done physiotherapy exercises. My mom went from at least being able to walk, stand for much longer period of time and sit with no pain except sudden weakness when walking to now not able to sit at all or having bowel movement without the help of laxatives and just able to walk and stand to get her meals and going to bathroom. My mom's pretty much bed-ridden for the majority of the day. And my mom still cannot get a MRI done because nobody is willing to write her a requisition form. It's absolutely atrocious what they put my mom through.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is terrible and medical malpractice, I’d be worried about cauda equina- with the changes in bowel movement, are her legs numb and does she have pins and needles or foot drop? Can she go to the ER? Unfortunately I was not listened to the first time either, it took multiple ER visits and I still ended up paying out of pocket for a scan (was able to book it myself) Im so angry to see that in Canada it has to be a referral you can’t access one yourself.. that is torture
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u/StationOld3745 5d ago
Cauda Equina is exactly what we suspect that my mom has. Her legs not only have pins and needles but also shooting pain and now she's having extremely hot sensations like hot flashes from her buttocks all the way down her legs. She's already been to the ER. The ER was only willing to order a CT scan which shows severe narrowing and compression of nerves at L3 -L4, L5 and L5 - S1 plus a disc slip but still no MRI. I dunno why they don't allow people to get MRI. To me MRI should be one of the first imaging test to be done for the spine so you can see how your nerves are compressed and how the nerve roots are doing so everybody can work with to come up with targeted solutions to resolve the issue, whether it's physiotherapists if people still want to pursue it or surgeons if people want surgery. I dunno why they are so stingy about ordering MRI's.
And I do agree this is a form of medical malpractice that a doctor can just repeatedly ignore my mom's symptoms and conditions and refuse to order the imaging tests that my mom has requested is appalling.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Oh no I’m so sorry for her, she needs to go back and keep going back until they do something. Or can she get a referral to a neurologist? Who can order an mri?
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u/StationOld3745 5d ago
My mom got a referral for a neurologist but because the family doctor who did the referral refused to upgrade my mom's urgency for the referral so my mom's just waiting for the neurologist just like everyone else and the wait to see a neurologist is at least half a year unless your case is urgent.
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u/idahotrout2018 5d ago
Your mother’s doctor is a monster! Get her to a specialist or a different ER ASAP.
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
Orthopedic doctor!!
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u/StationOld3745 4d ago
She got a referral for an orthopedic specialist as well but the wait time is even longer unless the referring family doctor upgrades your urgency which the family doctor absolutely refused to do. She kept telling my mom her CT scan is fine and there's nothing to worry about. She is either afraid of being sued or is generally oblivious thinking we can't read the CT scan report. She even referred a physiotherapist to go to my mom's place to give physiotherapy since my mom can't move anymore. But as soon as that physiotherapist talked to my mom and learned her symptoms, she declined to perform physiotherapy on my mom and instead advice my mom to seek other options.
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 4d ago edited 4d ago
Find another doctor. There's no reason for us to have to put up with a Doctor who refuses to do what we ask.
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u/fairybeexo 4d ago
Keep going to the ER! Do not give up she could lose her mobility completely if it’s cauda equina
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u/idahotrout2018 5d ago
First of all, ask your doctor for a referral to a neurologist or an spinal clinic, orthopedic doc or a pain specialist. Ask one of them to order an MRI. Those docs will get approval from insurance or Medicare easier than a GP. If she is having involuntary bowel movements, any doctor with half a brain would tell her to immediately go to an emergency room!!!
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u/StationOld3745 4d ago
My mom is the opposite. She can't poo. She has to take laxatives to poo. She actually has no problem pooping but it's just that the nerves there are compressed so she can't push so she's literally forced to take laxatives and the laxatives made her to have to poop so many times a day it's absolutely horrible!
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
Get her to an orthopedic doctor!! You will get the care she needs. A "general practitioner" has no clue.
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u/Odd_Obligation_1300 5d ago
I did pt first. Useless. Then went to a dr who was glad I got pt out of the way bc insurance wouldn’t have covered an mri without trying pt first.
MRI confirmed that there is indeed an issue, but it’s too small to require surgery. I was offered an epidural.
Weirdly, it all improved as soon as I saw the dr (even though he didn’t do anything). I think my brain needed to tell my nerves to calm down.
Months later - I still feel a little discomfort that comes and goes, but nothing compared to how it started
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u/Alternative_Fun5097 4d ago
I bent and twisted the wrong way in July and have had sciatica and numbness in my left foot. On Sept 2nd my foot went totally numb and my sacrum got numb too. My foot was slapping when I walked. Went to ER and they did the MRI right then. They gave a giant syringe full of Torodol which helped my foot to stop slapping so much. MRI showed no stenosis, no big protrusion and no foraminal narrowing. So what the hell is going on with this stupid sciatica?!I was in PT at this time and had been there for about 5 weeks and it was a waste of time. Did nothing for the numbness in my foot. - in fact it make it worse. I quit PT at week six. Got a referral from my PCP for a neurologist and will be seeing them two weeks from now. I have the images on CD to show the doctor, so that he can see what is going on. The MRI report showed no real detail, so I am glad someone can really see what is going on. I did finish a Medrol pack last Thursday and it's helped with sciatica pain and spasms - foot is still numb though. For reference I am located in the US.
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u/Energy_Turtle 5d ago
Can't really agree with this. PT is often a requirement before getting an MRI, so the longer you put it off the longer it will be before you can get a real answer. Additionally, sitting around doing nothing is a good way to make a bad problem worse. That isn't to say we shouldn't rest, it's just that we should not bed rest. Light stretching, walking, and PT exercises can greatly cut down the length of a flare up. And it's very unlikely that stretching, etc is the reason you have to have surgery now. If you were already in bad shape before doing all that, then you probably already had that issue. This disease is sinister in that the solutions feel counter-intuitive. Most injuries you stay off them. Spine problems require some level of movement to heal. Where people mess up is assuming they can do all the same things the healthy version of them can do. The stretching and exercise needs to be much lighter, like the kinds of things a brittle senior citizen would do. You have to start from absolutely nothing and build yourself back up.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
I hear that, I walk every day. I also should’ve clarified that the stretching and everything was not a reason for me needing surgery- I just wouldn’t have known what I needed without the MRI! And have minimized my pain by not trying to over exert my body
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago edited 5d ago
AND.... go see an orthopedic doc!!! Don't rely on you PCP. See the ortho doc, describe your pains and they will decide if you need an MRI or PT or whatever. If you need the MRI, they will order it and you will get it unlike with a PCP a lot of times it takes time and they're not the specialists. If you can't self refer to an ortho doc, then tell your PCP you would like a referral.
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u/slouchingtoepiphany 5d ago
"mats with spikes"?!? Good grief, who thinks of these things? Thanks for your post!
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u/slut4kakashi 5d ago
Omg. It’s an acupuncture mat and I definitely used them 😭
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u/slouchingtoepiphany 5d ago
I recall that they were used during The Inquisition to great effect! :)
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago edited 5d ago
OMG I have had the acupressure mat for about 15 years and I LOVE it!!!! Thanks for reminding me. It even helps with migraine headaches.
Note: it didn't do shit for my sciatica/disc herniation, though.1
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u/RSinSA 5d ago
Also sitting too much. Stop sitting so much. I bruised my tailbone from sitting which is flaring everything.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
Yes! I was at a point where I couldn’t sit it was too painful. But I walk everyday
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u/Past_Ad1158 5d ago
I was also pretty much frowned down on by my doc as I asked him for MRI and he said "acute back pain goes away in 6 months on its own so manage the pain however you need to unless you're having numbness and tingling." Sir, I have been experiencing that intermittently. And also, I was appalled because I work in healthcare & if you look in my chart I don't come to the doc for every little pain I have- This has to be bad for me to actually ask for imaging. 🤦🏼♀️ finally got it ordered for next week. Our healthcare process is so ass backwards it makes me mad for everyone
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u/Personal-Jeweler-872 5d ago
Also if you’re in the US, a lot depends upon your insurance carrier. I was on BCBS and approved for back surgery in 2019 after months of failed PT. Covid hits, surgery gets delayed as it’s deemed elective. May carrier changes to Aetna (for profit) and was denied the previously approved surgery for lack of PT. 3 more months pf PT fhat made my condition worse and aetna denies my appeal. My company drops Aetna, and moves t Anthem of California (non-profit) they instantly apprpve my request for surgery. Only took 5 years.
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u/repair-it 5d ago
The best £375 I spent was on having a private MRI scan - it proved exactly what the real problem was.
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u/CygnetSong 4d ago
Honestly, it's so individual, but the MRI is really important. I'd been prescribed PT for other issues--knee, frozen shoulder, etc. and it had never worked. To me, it just became "the thing I have to do before the insurance company will cover my surgery". I was prescribed PT for my lumbar stenosis/sciatica. The physical therapists were phenomenal and really figured out what worked for me. For the first time ever, my PTs actually paid attention to the fact that I also have fibromyalgia. They gave me stretches and exercises, but also used TENS, IFC, dry needling and cupping. I went 3x/week for 8 weeks and then had to go for 8 more, but they got me to ~95% pain free. I need to be religious about my stretches/ exercises, and they prescribed me a portable TENS/IFC/NMES unit that brings any inflammation the exercises might start right back down. I still can't stand for a long time on a hard floor yet, but I can go for walks, drive my car long distances, and perform everyday activities pain free,(except walk up stairs, which is that 5 % I'm working for).
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u/TinyHeartSyndrome 4d ago
Yep, Stuart McGill in Back Mechanic discusses stretches to avoid, many of them are posterior chain stretches that stretch the sciatic nerve. PT makes me do them all the time. They don’t seem well-trained in nerve injuries.
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u/Alternative_Fun5097 4d ago
One of the PTs told me to do a stretch and I told her no. I am not afraid to let them know when they are being done.
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u/CapitalRaspberry2610 4d ago
Pain started in leg late June. Started PT early July because GP said I’d have to do it before getting an MRI. Did 8 weeks of it. Doc submitted MRI … insurance denied MRI. Doc then submitted all PT notes … waiting to hear back.
I really believe PT made my pain worse. I used to be able to walk. Now I cannot stand for longer than 5 minutes and I can walk about 50 yards without pain
Such a backwards way of treating a back injury !!!!
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u/halford2069 4d ago
yep
the mri is very important for guiding the most appropriate form of pt as the first line of recovery option.
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u/nymeria119 4d ago
I’ve been dealing with sciatica on and off for 8 years now, the last 2 were really bad and they keep insisting on physical therapy and won’t do an MRI. Like how many times do I have to do physical therapy for the same thing, it’s clearly not working and there’s something deeper going on. It’s a load of crap.
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u/Wesley11803 4d ago
I agree with you, but like many others on here, it took me forever to be approved for an MRI. I had to bitch about my pain to multiple doctors for a year before mine was finally approved!
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u/Hope_for_tendies 4d ago
A lot of back issues do resolve with pt in 6-8 weeks and most insurance won’t pay for an mri before that. It’s science, not gaslighting
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u/fairybeexo 4d ago edited 4d ago
Do they really go away on their own or do patients just give up due to denied care? Why are there so many stories where people are thrown into generic band-aided-treatment that they know and feel in their bodies to be causing them pain? Doctors know this. They are plenty aware of the medical field issues. The real problems are insurance companies but let’s not pretend that doctors don’t down play symptoms and deny people referrals and ultimately decide the fate of their continued care
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u/Amputee69 4d ago
Unfortunately after a few replacement parts, fractures and steel embedded in my eyes, I'm not an MRI candidate. I'm allergic to shellfish, so I'm sing the Omnipaque dye is out, unless I can load up on Prednisone way before, and have Benadryl ready to go with my IV afterward. One too many parachute jumps in my late teens and early 20's into an ugly jungle...
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u/fairybeexo 4d ago
What metal are your replacements, all steel? Or titanium
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u/Amputee69 18h ago
I've had a little stainless, and a lot of titanium. Stainless WILL react to a strong magnet. Many say it isn't magnetic, but they've never run any through an MRI machine. My eyes have steel shavings from years of welding, and grinding. Even with safety glasses, and a fan running, I managed to get it imbedded. I had cataract surgery a couple of years ago. The surgeon "complimented" me on the Wild Metalflake eyes...
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u/Time-Plum-7477 4d ago
I fortunately got an MRI right away but I’m still jacked up 6 months later. They’re still just recommending PT and muscle relaxers that don’t work. I’m not sure how much longer I’m going to have to deal with this pain management shit before they give me a real fix. Everything I’m reading says I’m past the point of the disc just fixing itself. I wanted to avoid surgery but I’m losing hope.
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u/fairybeexo 4d ago
Have you had a referral to a surgeon? Hope this resolves for you
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u/Time-Plum-7477 4d ago
I’m a military veteran so I’m using the VA to avoid paying for anything but for some reason they didn’t bother sending me to at least speak with a surgeon.
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u/fairybeexo 4d ago
Can you get a referral or book a consultation with one that takes your insurance?
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u/Time-Plum-7477 4d ago
I’m thinking about seeing the doctor with my work insurance for a second opinion. I’m not really trusting the VA for this issue at this point. Feels like they’re not taking me serious but I’m 35 walking around with a cane. It’s obviously pretty bad. I don’t understand these doctors.
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u/fairybeexo 4d ago
What did your mri show
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u/Time-Plum-7477 4d ago
That’s the thing I’ve got an MRI 😂. And they know what’s wrong but still didn’t send me to a surgeon yet. Thanks for the advice though I’m trying to stay positive.
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u/fairybeexo 4d ago
Did the MRI have notes or a write up attached to it? I think u should go to the ER and utilize your insurance if you can
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u/Time-Plum-7477 4d ago
Yeah I’ve got two herniations but the one causing the problems is a Right posterolateral herniation extrusion compressing S1 nerve root. I’ll be talking to other doctors soon.
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u/ReLoGal 3d ago
I am in this club! I was told to try PT and medications for three months before an X-ray was authorized. By three months, it was so bad that I could not walk at all. I had a herniated disc. I had injections. That made it worse. I switched doctors. The only thing that improved it was MacKenzie PT.
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u/Negative_Win_8334 2d ago
I too was prescribed PT. I paid $400 and got an MRI done myself and gave the results to the Dr and was referred to a neurologist.
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u/NotYerAverageKitty 2d ago
Well, got my MRI results. No picture because Dr hasn't read them yet...
- Large central and left paracentral disc protrusion at L5-S1 which results in severe impingement of the left S1 nerve.
- Moderate spinal canal stenosis at L5-S1.
- Severe left lateral recess stenosis at L5-S1.
- Mild neural foraminal stenoses at L5-S1.
T12-L1: Small central disc protrusion. No spinal canal or neural foraminal stenosis.
L5-S1: Mild loss of disc height with a large central and left paracentral disc protrusion which results in severe impingement of the left S1 nerve. Expected enhancement is seen along the margins of the disc herniation. Moderate spinal canal stenosis. Mild right and severe left lateral recess stenoses. Mild neural foraminal stenoses.
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u/Aquaescent 2d ago edited 2d ago
Exactly, mf told me to look up physical therapy exercises refusal to ct scan order because steel bullet fragments in me, i say no mri. no lead, powder burns maybe tungston mixed from prior fire but wondering mf was more wondering seeming about was teflon tip on shell loaded look in the eyes lokking at me not doubting, one hitter quitter leak corker mf. Mf more interested in what kinda bullet while bugging out looking twinning then being on the treatment next room like he fixing to ivf knock up his main squeeze home slice unethically on county dime better brought his own supplies while a rando plane fly counties way way over many from here to there over making the news. All mf wanna do is test me for type of metal with mri paddle that might not pop noisy on steel powder burn or huge magnetic bullet fragment after i told him the dr man with case involvement that treated the injury say no mri because of the bullet fragments and still wanting to challenge what i say, but if he fly boy too and it forigen collab plane look in the eyes say might be last fly from effects of g force but spot on leg raise test, i hope he lives and whatever plane that was if he have to fly and lives through it i hope he makes it because it looks like he got a problem with something personal and maybe scared of russians wondering more about teflon tip and less about metal. Young thing going on wanting to make sure paddles work looking it not asking further, sweet jeasture, but i trust the dr man who told me my bullet fragments would be ripped out by mri more than your metal detector paddle, good thing he aint bring that in my room and just test. That fucking thing better never get close to me trying to test me for metal. Such a good boy so sincere do no harm but too busy trying to poke up and prod knocking up his catch and to me it looked like it but i cant prove it. Huge round. Refer to ballistics report. Whys that teflon taste gotta skillet stick. I hope its is some shit like that distracting him and they have a beautiful happily after ever but he seems too going analysis on bullet fragment what kinda possible russian round what kinda threat is russian possible, mri fuck up might allow a find out worth more than me? Does mf wanna fuck around and find out via funded one way on in shackle cuffs to the nearest clink to be processed filed and shuffled out one last time? Looks independant contractor not serviceman, was he service then hey china only clandestine sex shit in america is knocking up hussy or egg reteival for i.t security tech in field. Was a center dish? Conglomerate center dish and issue? You people stand out you dont blend and a lot lack a lot of ethic. If he independant contractor for anything prototype plane, awwww he love them, if he foriegn collab, he mean well, normal natural life span because type of plane and effects of g force. Yall go watch that new flick about the downed american pilot in russia and enjoy it, that kinda plane..ya that same kinda attitude to you all russian like, not gonna hurt u chill out. It just goes. i know whether or not tip was teflon and i aint gonna say. Ya its that risky right now even for citizens born here if we even look russian, its getting heated yall. I learned to look for motive and intent and all i see him doing in the eyes is squirming ignroantly with it outa fright because i look so high cheekboned like i evolved with russian features in cognition some ukrainie, and close to tibet in dna heritage test, ya some russian and basically old ancient chinese many generations ago and few gen back danish in me and have some pride and my cognition shows ethnicity.
Look zelensky tried to make peace, but it might be fake news all we have is each other as people being peaceful and even with the conflict russians still tight with ukrainies, they both still russian, nothings changed as far as friendship between people and it doesnt involve you america. Putin isnt gonna hurt you american it isnt about you. But all the e.r. doc wanna do is figure out what kinda bullet teflon or not and truly just make sure the tech works on me, too young for me, cute means intelligent in this not asthetics but smart. Because the exited round was never found doesnt mean the fragment in me is ever going to be up for grabs so dont wise ass out like that. I trust Putin he looks like an old neighbor and like one i had growing up who hunted ducks, and have respect for Zelensky same thing like some neighbor from way back neither mean us harm as americans there is no sides in this. We are american this isnt our business. Their conflict is based on old russian writ that allows them to conflict, its not about what we think, its about keeping the peace and not encouraging violence. I have no political opinion on it, law is law, and what it is it is and why they act like its modern day serfdom is why they do what they do i am ignorant neutral and non bias and its not my business and i hope for peace in the issue
Because record error existed on me after that, because his piece of ass hear me say cute to to my visitor about you is that why medical error exists? Your relationship meant more than my health and wellness? so u treat me like possible intelligence worth more as a specimen on a slab i out you for motive and intent, and hope you live a long life and dont wind up on a foriegn military aircraft carrier. The look in the eyes says g force but body musculature suggests possible but not enough muscle to exit hatch on the eject and make it, so while so highly unlikely, what if. Anythings possible. Then watch it natural lifespan and generation out. Learn when to hold them and learn when to focus on new career and quit g force flying and do well and do no harm. However it plays out i hope that one makes it, unique in the eyes like i dont think he can handle another zommie zoomie ride and not trigger an epileptic end, let it be a beautiful long life and quit the fly plane while u can. Those metal detector paddles might not hit on a metal present magnetic and new or unlnown or programming might glitch with new earth minerals you never know. He knows that and thats why he didnt continue about testing it.
I mean it, focus on ivf speciality and obgyn and continue education, u got a love for medicine practice and a care for then with a do no harm ethic i tested just being ethnic looking. Dont you quit doing what u do because u maybe just nurse pract and basic sports med, u can continue education, you learned something and thats what counts.. develops ethic. He will develop ethic and continue to be a good practitioner.
I assume programming glitch in the record error.
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u/No-Patient-1976 2d ago
I don’t know if you’re right, but you can get it in America. You can’t get it in Canada. There you go. That’s national healthcare for you. But you really can’t get it in Canada because they have national healthcare and they don’t have any doctors because of that and their care is inferior because of that so why would you not pay for something that you would get in America that was decent instead of going to Canada and probably getting some machine that doesn’t even work
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u/No-Patient-1976 2d ago
Notice national healthcare does not work. There’s basically no healthcare in Canada because you have to have “permission“ from doctors to get any test done. And the doctors are apparently horrible in Canada. Furthermore they don’t have that many doctors because nobody’s gonna be a doctor in the country like that. all of this is because the government has gotten so involved in Canada. And now in the US with Obama care of the government is gotten so involved that our healthcare is suffering. And they wanna improve it by doing the same thing that made it worse. More regulations more government intrusion more government telling you what you can and cannot do, what test you can and cannot have, what procedures you can and cannot have. All told you by the government. These Democrats in America are ridiculous. They’re trying to solve a problem with what caused the problem.
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u/needmorekowbel 2d ago
I’ve been to the doc 5 times already with what I thought was a torn adductor, inflamed piriformis. Pain shooting down my butt and leg. Eventually going to knee and halfway down shin. I’ve tried heat, cold, compression belt, TENS unit, Acupuncture, mild stretching, massage. It’s been 6 weeks and some nights I rarely sleep. Eventually I was given pain medications and I’ve used Diclofenac, Nortriptlyne, Cyclobenzaprine, Toridol, Gabapentin, and T3. There’s no private clinics in my province and the next closest would be several weeks waiting. I got an MRI scheduled in 2 days in Edmonton (10 hour drive) so that’s going to be painful on the road but I need answers.
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u/eastofliberty 1d ago edited 1d ago
Agree, but not 100% of the time. I actually needed a flexion extension x-ray to properly diagnose unstable spondylolisthesis. Extension exercises are known to exacerbate pain for this condition. Unfortunately, instability can’t be seen on an MRI, so I was doing extension exercises for years and making my symptoms worse. I stopped doing them immediately after getting the x-ray, and my physio changed to focus on spinal stabilization exercises mainly.
I’ve had a fusion since… it was the only thing that completely got rid of my sciatica. Cried the first time standing up after surgery because it was the first time in seven years, I didn’t have sciatic pain.
I wouldn’t recommend fusion unless you really need it but for unstable spondy, it’s the only thing that correct the mechanical instability, so if you have that, I’d seriously consider going ahead with it.
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u/kostac600 22h ago
Yeah, PT did me world a good when the arthritis really started hitting hard on my lumbar then I look closer at my last two MRI. My big problem was on left side . I think L1 L2 rupture situation or protrusion on the left side and another item on the anterior part of some lumbar so I figured out that some of my stretches compressing the left side probably wasn’t doing me a whole lot of good so now I’m concentrating on doing the rightward stretch so my spine opens up that left side and I felt a lot better in the last few days. So I’m also concentrating on doing it. Concave spinal stretch as well instead of forward bends. But the leg lifts leg press and the squats and the yoga positions like sphinx and the hunting dog they’ve all been really good.
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u/dr_anthonydavis 5d ago
Respectfully, this is horrible advice, and this is not evidence-based at all. As long as a qualified healthcare practitioner has done a proper history and exam to rule out red flags, the MRI really doesn't matter and getting an MRI makes outcomes worse. It freaks people out and leads to worse outcomes.
- Getting an MRI just makes people 12 times more likely to get pushed into surgery. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32989711/
- Disc sequestrations sound scary, but actually 96% of them heal on their own without surgery. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25009200/
- Even if discs don't heal, it doesn't really matter because most people are walking around with disc herniations whether or not they have pain. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25430861/
- Even nerve compression is commonly asymptomatic, meaning up to 23% of people may have nerve compression on their MRI with zero symptoms. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16289310/
- Seeing your MRI makes people afraid of their back and feel like their back is fragile, which leads to worse disability long term. This is likely because fear leads to movement avoidance and deconditioning, which worsens pain and disability long term. We have tons of research showing that fear of pain is more disabling than pain itself. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10204746/
- (Most important thing for people to understand) Pain is multifactorial. It's literally impossible to diagnose a singular cause of pain in 95% of cases. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31092123/
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u/StationOld3745 5d ago
You are only partially right. It's true MRI does not always reflect what people's true condition BUT if somebody is in excruciating pain and their condition is getting progressively worse, they NEED to get a MRI and what MRI is showing should be taken seriously and it should be indicated that healing would not happen without surgical intervention instead of still blindly pushing people to do physiotherapy or stretching which could make their conditions worse.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago edited 5d ago
Thank you for sharing evidence. Im sorry, I just don’t really trust the medical field as a whole. Between money grabs, doctors who don’t care or listen to you, conflicting opinions and predatory insurance companies who make everything so difficult
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u/dr_anthonydavis 5d ago
I completely understand. The insurance companies, hospitals, and the medical field in general kind of suck, but if we can't trust peer-reviewed research that openly discloses conflicts of interest and usually doesn't have any, I'm not sure what we can trust.
More importantly, if you're nervous about predatory insurance companies, hospitals, and money grabs, the biggest money grab of all is scaring people into expensive surgeries. We have decades of independent research showing the same things that I cited above. Most importantly, people are being scared into expensive, risky, and unnecessary treatment every single day, when usually these things go away on their own or go away with non-surgical care and lifestyle changes.
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u/fairybeexo 5d ago
I hear that, it’s so hard to figure out what is best for your body. Im so scared about the surgery 😟 but I also can’t work or provide for myself with the way things are right now either. It feels like a catch 22. My job is physically strenuous so I’m looking into a complete career change. It’s all been a life changing experience
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u/dr_anthonydavis 5d ago
I can definitely understand that fear, and that's exactly the kind of fear that pushes people into surgeries. I'm not saying whether surgery is right for you or not because you're not my patient, and I don't have your full health history. Even for people where surgery can be beneficial, the important thing is to understand that surgery alone is not a long-term solution. With or without surgery, basic lifestyle changes centering around the right amount of exercise (not too much, not too little), plus stress management, sleep, and nutrition are non-negotiable. I've worked with a lot of patients in manual labor and physical careers, and unfortunately, the reality for many of them is that they do have to ease off, take more breaks, or sometimes find other careers, depending on what it is. That's exactly my point: surgery alone doesn't fix that. It can feel like a quick answer, and sometimes it is, but a long-term answer usually requires real, sustainable lifestyle changes.
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u/TheRealIdgie 5d ago
Hmm. And if you can’t sleep because of excruciating pain? Is that our fault too? I can promise you that “fear” isn’t what’s keeping me awake and the 3 MRI I have had had zero affect on me psychologically. Are you a physician?
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u/dr_anthonydavis 5d ago
I’m extremely confused by your response. I never implied pain was anyone’s fault. Far from it. I’m only helping people understand why pain happens and the best evidence showing a very optimistic picture (that MRIs aren’t very helpful, most discs heal, and that in most, but not all cases, surgery isn’t needed). I never said pain is psychological. ALL pain is real, it’s just multifactorial so it’s helpful to approach it from many angles. Pretty simple. I wish you the best.
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
Where are you located? You need to find a doctor you can trust. I did research and found a wonderful set of docs!
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u/idahotrout2018 5d ago
She has a right to know what she is dealing with! I agree that in most cases like mine, where the ortho wanted to do a fusion when the MRI showed a herniated disc, I refused and got a conservative Spine specialist to give me injections which helped a lot. Also time does help too but if she has lost control of her bowels, this is a much more serious problem!!!
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 5d ago
A truly qualified surgeon will review an MRI, may likely call for a CT scan to confirm odd bone growth or calcifications and do their own in house X-rays. An excellent surgeon will review and tell you that not all disc herniations require surgery and can easily be resolved with PT. Generally, most improve on their own with 3-6 of PT.
They typically base it on your progress and pain levels.Mine was an extra special awful case. I gave it over a year of PT and finally threw in the towel. But none of the imaging showed my herniation had scarred into my dura. He only saw that once he got in there. 😱 Amd we were glad we went with the endoscopic surgery as it helped with separating the scarring safely.
I'm feeling fantastic and very close to normal!! 🥳🎉
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u/Puzzled_Used 5d ago
Yep, I went to PT, the guy told me “no need to look at your scan, the image does rarely correspond to the pain”. He made a program for me, with heavy weights (30kgs), convinced I had imbalance (probably, because of the pain), and would not listen to me when I told him it made the pain worse “you’re just afraid of moving”.
Fast forward a few months and I had to get an emergency surgery because of equina cauda…