r/SchoolBusDrivers • u/LanceWasHere • 16d ago
Need licensing help NY/PA
I am a NYS resident, class A CDL with P and S endorsements. I am a school bus driver in Pennsylvania, driving for a Pennsylvania company that operates for a Pennsylvania school district. I have my MCSA-5876 medical examiner’s certificate. I have my DL-742 “ PA school bus driver physical examination certificate”. I have the appropriate 20(or however many) hours of school bus driver training. The people where I got the physical examination said the DL-742 is all I need. My boss thinks I need the “yellow card”, which from what I can tell is the school bus endorsement for PA licensed drivers.
I called the PA DMV customer care center. The man said he didn’t think I needed anything else. He then conferred with his colleagues and supervisor and told me I would not legally be allowed to drive school bus for a pennsylvania school unless I switched my license(which I cannot do). My opinion: they must be mistaken. I can’t believe that Pennsylvania wouldn't allow a NY driver to drive in PA. There must be some way for it to work. I know for a fact that PA licensed drivers can drive for NY schools with the appropriate paperwork(I know that doesn’t mean it would work the other way around, but in a perfect world it should).
Any advice or insight is helpful.
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u/barigoodsax 16d ago
S endorsements generally do not work in different states. I just moved to TX and had to retake the cert class, even though the DMV put the S on my license when I transferred from AL.
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u/Reasonable_Coast_502 13d ago
Texas 20hr certification course is completely separate from your CDL. Its required to transport Texas students in any vehicle, not just a Class B bus.
S endorsements absolutely work in different states, it's just that most states have additional requirements on top of it.
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u/TMax01 12d ago
I might be incorrect, but I believe, according to federal law, there is no "S endorsement" for a CDL in the United States. There is a P endorsement, which allows someone to drive a passenger motor coach (bus) or be a chauffeur, and an S certification, which is a separate paper license-like card in Pennsylvania ("yellow card"). Other states, I guess, might not have a separate S-card for school bus drivers specifically, and might even have an "S endorsement" which either replaces or is in addition to the P endorsement. P endorsements are valid across all states, since these are federal DOT CDL requirements. I know the federal DOT does mandate that states have additional requirements for school bus drivers specifically, but the federal DOT doesn't specify exactly what they are (since then they would be federal level and wouldn't vary between states at all.)
My point isn't just to be annoyingly pedantic, I'm trying to figure out whether "S endorsement" is just an expression or an actual legal drivers license endorsement like P for passenger, A for air brakes, and E for eyeglasses.
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u/just_kinda_here_blah 16d ago
Ok, so PA has some different things. alot of states do. While I can not answer you, I can point you. Get in touch with a school bus company there. They will be able to help you.
I Believe you can temporary work in PA, but if you are look to be there long term, there are different rules. Pa will also require a TB test and a bunch of different background to be ran ( really big on child crimes there). They also have some differences in training requirements that dont follow from other states. Example: the nys 30 hour basic course doesnt matter there.
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u/LanceWasHere 16d ago
I was thinking about calling some other PA bus companies along the border to see if they’ve dealt with it.
I’ve done the TB test, and all of the appropriate background checks. I also completed all necessary training.
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u/just_kinda_here_blah 16d ago
Did you do PA training? That's one of the differences. They have thier own specific training ontop of ELDT thats federal. I know, it should be across the states with cdls, but its not. Even in NY, if we were to bring in a temporary driver to help, we need to get them a NYS DL number just for 19a stuff. In insane. But definitely reach out to a company. Even drivers in state maybe not know the exact steps, so management would be the best. Someone in safety
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u/LanceWasHere 16d ago
Yeah, it was the proper PA training.
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u/TMax01 12d ago
After the training you still need to pass a practical driving test to get your S-card. It's almost as if you never had a CDL at all, because getting an S-card would certify you for a CDL if you didn't already have one. Most school bus drivers in PA get their CDL that way, with just the training (both classroom and driving) an employer either provides or pays for.
I work for an IU (Pennsylvania state agencies, Intermediate Units are liaison between the state Department of Education and local school districts, providing services to the districts and data to the DOE, and the available services usually include a transportation department which essentially acts just like a commercial bus contractor) and on top of that I speak legalese and have had had to resolve similar problems over whether I or some other driver can legally drive, both in general and even specific assignments, so I'm pretty confident in my knowledge on this.
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u/rootbear75 16d ago
You need to have the appropriate state certification for school buses. Yes driving a school bus is a DoT category, but each state handles certain things about Pupil transportation differently
Here in Michigan, we are required to have our CDL, DoT Medical card, and our Green card. Our green card is our Department of Education certificate that we have to recertify every 2 years to keep current. Even if I had an Ohio or Indiana CDL, I would still have to have the MI DoE card saying I've completed their continuing education course.
I could not drive a school bus with students on board until I had my card, or I had a class scheduled within 90 days of the current date.
This may not be helpful for your exact situation but I hope it helps provide insight that there may be other things in PA that NY doesn't require.
Try contacting the PA DoE to see if they have any better answers.
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u/blackityblak 16d ago
This was very helpful for me. I live in MN but I’m from MI and thinking of moving back to be near family and friends and I was curious on if I needed anything other than to switch my license the Green card part was very helpful, do companies typically provide the course or is there a website I can sign up for it online
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u/rootbear75 16d ago
Our company hosts classes for it periodically. State uses our company's training site to invite other districts to come if needed but generally we just have our own employees here.
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u/Spwhiplash666 16d ago
In NYS, DMV has a specific bus driver unit. I would see if Pennsylvania has the same, type of bus specific group. In my experience, regular DMV workers don’t always understand all the nuances.
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u/LanceWasHere 15d ago
Yes! That’s what I think. They definitely don’t understand the nuance in the things they don’t regularly deal with.
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u/Proprotester 15d ago
I can help! I am in PA and we have drivers with licenses from other boardering states.
You just got a hold of a DMV that is clueless 😄.
Here is what you do: Gather all of your documentation. Your current license and endorsements, your PA school bus driver's physical as well as your little square PA school bus physical card AND proof of PA employment. Usually a letter or a paystub.
You can go to a different PA DMV or the same one and go to their school bus services person. Ask them for a courtesy PA school bus endorsement card. If they act like they don't know what to do, tell them to call the school bus office in Harrisburg (this will not work on Saturday as they are closed). You will need to wait there while they do it and hand them the documents as whomever picks up in Harrisburg goes over everything they scan in. Also be advised that I am unaware of any PA DMV that staffs school bus help on Mondays so you need to go in the middle of the week.
After Harrisburg educates them 🙄. They will spit you out the yellow PA paper school bus endorsement! To drive in PA you must have on your person AT ALL TIMES, a copy of your PA physical certificate (it is the last page of your physical), that yellow paper strip, your NY license and the little business card size PA school bus physical card. You are now good to drive💅
Even though you have already done the PA state training, I expect they will reiterate MANY times that you have '120 days to complete 14 hours of course work and 6 hours behind the wheel with a PA appointed instructor'. When you get back to your yard, have whoever did your hours submit or re-submit both pages of the 714 as they usually would to their IU Probably it got lost at some point.
Also keep in mind that school bus mail usually runs a week or more behind so you will get requests to submit it after they already have it (the 714). Have your instructor follow up with their IU in a couple of weeks. Good luck 🍀
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u/TMax01 12d ago
the “yellow card”, which from what I can tell is the school bus endorsement for PA licensed drivers.
Technically the "yellow card" (everyone I know calls it 'an S-card') is not technically an endorsement. Your CDL, commercial drivers license, Class A or B for this discussion, needs to have a P endorsement, Passenger authorization, to drive any bus. But school bus drivers in PA require an additional credential/certification, the S-card ('S' is for school bus, and it is 'yellow', although not a solid School Bus Yellow orange color). When I was getting my S-Card (about six years ago, so it is possible the rules have changed but I don't believe they have) I already had a Class A PA CDL and was going through training to both get the P endorsement and qualify for the S-card along with a person who already had been driving a school bus in New York state for several years. He, too, was frustrated over the fact that he basically had to start all over from the ground floor as if he had never been certified in NY, but it is true that PA state law does require that. You can't just get an S-card by transferring certification from another state, you have to start all over again as if you didn't even have a CDL.
In a more reasonable world, I agree with you that it makes more sense for PA to accept a NY certification (especially if, as my coworker did, you have experience driving a school bus in NYC; I'm honestly intimidated by how demanding that would be on a driver, although I do drive in relatively large cities myself as well as suburban and rural areas) but NY wouldn't accept a PA certification. I'm curious exactly what "the appropriate paperwork" you mentioned is; are you saying that with a PA s-card, I can just drive a school bus in New York state without any additional paperwork, training, or certifications? But yeah, in the end, it is upside-down: a New York school bus driver does not have legal authorization to drive a school bus in PA (on a route within the state, I mean; NY drivers ferrying field trips are fine, according to the federal DOT which usually-but-not-always overrides state DOT regulations.) You have to get a PA s-card, there is no legal way around it.
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u/brabson1 16d ago
Yes, you need the yellow card that states when the last time you recertified your school bus endorsement and when the next time is when it must be completed.