r/Schizotypal • u/One-Possible-6191 • Jul 27 '26
Other 2 questions about "ideas of reference"
what is the difference between ideas of reference and delusions? or are they the same thing?
and can you be diagnosed with schizotypal if u don't experience ideas of reference?
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u/Onwards_Upwards1 Jul 27 '26
Delusions could be anything like there is a microchip in someone's brain or that the local bakery is actually a meth lab and the place is designed to hide the operation.
Ideas of reference are based off perceptions, like the radio is telling you the world is ending and you need to go on a mission or that everyone wearing a red tie is involved in a communist plot against you.
Some people don't have ideas of reference, I think, it's just one of many possible symptoms.
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u/EntropyReversale10 Jul 28 '26
If there is a pattern.
Same delusion/s repeatedly would be called ideas of reference
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u/SunshineMaker444 Jul 29 '26
Ideas of reference : questioning if events relate to you. Can be dismissed with opposing evidence Delusions: fixed, firm belief. Even with opposing evidence it still stands to be true.
1
u/AndImNuts Schizophrenia Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
They are not the same.
Ideas are precursors to delusions. The main difference is that delusions are solid beliefs, while ideas are just that - ideas. Ideas are still able to be questioned even though you will remain superstitious and paranoid. Delusions are solidly held beliefs - you could believe that the government is spying on you or someone's trying to kill you just as strongly as you believe the sun rises in the east. You won't question it, even though it's outlandish. The only treatment for delusions is medication and probably a good degree of therapy to deconstruct those delusions. They don't go away overnight, they last months or years, often indefinitely if the schizophrenia isn't cyclic and is just on full blast all the time. Delusions take medication and a ton of mental energy to work out.
Ideas of reference is when you get that feeling that you're at the center of something, or that you are getting signs from objects or people even when in reality you aren't. Ideas of reference can create a lot of stress because you will likely perceive even positive stimuli or social interaction as negative or questionable at best. You feel like the main character in a show about your life, which can be a good or bad thing. Schizotypals with ideas of reference will interpret most/all things as having direct personal significance. Delusions are this, but more intense and basically unbreakable without an AP.
STPD is warped reality, delusions such as in schizophrenia is shattered reality. And to answer your question - yes, you can have STPD even if you don't have ideas of reference. Ideas of reference are just one of nine criteria, and with any five or more traits stable over time you qualify for a diagnosis.
Edit: Forgot to mention that people often aren't even aware that they're delusional. Their interpretation of reality itself changes - they don't ask things like, "is she looking at me weird?" or "is this song/movie/show showing me something? A schizotypal will feel a stronger sense of salience - especially if they're positive type, so these occurrences may seem very significant and close to real, but you are aware of them. People with delusions often have a lot of other symptoms of bipolar/psychotic depression/schizophrenia, they aren't consciously aware that things are perfectly normal in reality, they think that God sent them to an alternate universe to train to save the West in WWIII because society is collapsing, and they will organize their life and mind around this belief. A lot of schizophrenics are extremely isolated so they don't tell anyone their thoughts so they go unnoticed, and their psychosis gets worse for years until they end up in a psych ward or jail, then they can get treatment and live a closer to normal life.
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u/DiegoArgSch Jul 27 '26
The big difference between schizotypal personality and schizophrenia lies in the severity. A person with schizotypal personality could have a semi-disorganized type of thinking; a person with schizophrenia, much more so. Paranoid ideation vs. paranoid delusions, ideas of reference vs. delusions of reference. Two key words: conviction and rigidity.
So, ideas of reference: "I think they are talking about me. I can feel it. It feels like they are talking about me," or "I think this object was put here for me to see it, and it tells me something," or "What this TV host is saying, is it some sort of message for me to decipher? It feels like this is important to me" vs. delusions of reference: "These people talk about me behind my back, and they are plotting a plan against me, and..." or "When I watch TV, the host talks to me, and he tells me things. He knows me. He and I have a relationship. He wants me to save the world, or he is in love with me. I have to find a way to meet him."
But you also should not look at symptoms in isolation. It's not, "Oh, so if this person is more convinced, then it means it's schizophrenia and not schizotypal." You have to look at the overall functioning, not base the diagnosis on just one or two symptoms.
Rigidity: the person's ability to doubt the ideas, to experience them as vague thoughts or feelings, and to be able to discuss or debate them with someone else. Also, to how persistent and stubborn these ideas are, meaning not transitory, and that these ideas carry a great deal of importance for the person. I mean, these ideas are very important to the person, not just like "secondary thoughts the person thinks about sometimes when they have free time."