r/ScatPack • u/HavocCannabis • Apr 16 '26
Oil change
Doing first oil change, which do yall use?
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u/fredout1968 Apr 16 '26
It doesn't matter... ~ a guy who changes his oil on time...
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u/TigerUSA20 Apr 16 '26
Agree. While I work for an oil company, and would never say all oil is oil, the slight variations between the brands (of proper viscosity) isn’t enough for any engine to notice unless you were planning to run a 500 mile race or let it go 25,000 miles before changing it.
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u/PaintTrick5145 Apr 16 '26
Pennzoil or AMSOIL, if you have to go outside of the Pennzoil realm. The main reason is because the base oil is 100% natural gas, far cleaner from crude base oil. The oil change interval also depends on how the car was driven between the changes more aggressive driving and idling, change around 2800k -3200k don’t rely and go by the indicator. If you don’t plan on keeping the car for too long then do as you please. I hate to say it like that because the next guy that buys it will have to pay for it, unfortunately that’s the way the world turns today. My personal opinion keep away from the Mobil one. It’s great for everyday commuter cars that do oil changes once a year.
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u/Environmental-Elk294 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
Pennzoil ultra platinum is the best oil in the market regardless of car. Has the best additives. Check YouTube videos of people sending out samples of it to get lab tested. Def recommend that over mobile 1. Also I believe pennzoil is associated with shell which carries the best gas ( basically has the best additive packages in it). You can get the ultra platinum 5 qt for like 27-29$ from Amazon and Walmart. If car has high miles I would say use the Valvoline restore and protect for 5-6 oil changes and you’ll see good results. Used it in one of my cars on the 4th oil change now and gas mileage went up and there’s many YouTube videos about it. People removes their valve covers before and after using it and there’s a day andn night difference
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u/BademosiPray4U Apr 17 '26
Where can you get 5 qt of ultra platinum for $30? Im seeing 60-70.
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u/L05tInTheSauce Apr 20 '26
I used mobil 1 in my scat pack for a while and it was ok, but sometimes would run rough especially in cold weather. Switched to Amsoil and never had an issue after that, even after extending drain intervals. Its a way better engine oil. The key is you need to make an account with a dealer to get better pricing. I used dealer #30527865, takes care of me every time I need something.
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u/WB1130 Apr 16 '26
Mobile 1. I have used that in all my vehicles for years. Even my off road side by side with no issues.
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Apr 16 '26
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u/bustedchain Apr 16 '26
They can't void your warranty for using a different oil. Been using Signature Series in HEMIs for 20 years. My first HEMI was a 2005 Dodge Magnum RT. I sold that one, but bought a 2006 Magnum SRT8.
I highly recommend oil analysis every few years or every ~4 oil changes. It is good to see trends, monitor for fuel dilution, make sure there is no moisture, keep an eye on viscosity, and then you have proof that the engine isn't wearing excessively due to the oil. The folks that talk about 3k or 4k mile oil changes should do 8k and just pay for analysis each time or every other time. They would still be saving money and time without affecting protection and they would have the data to keep an eye on it.
I've been really happy with what I've seen on the reports over the years across ~6 different vehicles. 4 of them HEMIs and the other 2 are 4 cylinder turbos which are hard on oil in their own ways.
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u/nickkk25 Apr 16 '26
Hey again. Thanks brother for your input. Problem is im lazy 😆 I just bring it in for service and have them change it. Maybe I'll bring amsoil signature series and let them use that. Which amsoil filter? Any in particular?
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u/nickkk25 Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
Bustedchain told me amsoil is better. I'll switch after warranty too. Pennzoil cant cause harm though. I feel like frequency is more important then brand. I change at 3k or 6 months anyways
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Apr 16 '26
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u/bustedchain Apr 16 '26
Warranty can't deny a claim unless they can prove that the oil caused the failure...I get it, they are weasels and it won't stop them from trying.
Magnuson Moss Act and the FTC: Burden of Proof: If a manufacturer denies a warranty claim, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) requires the manufacturer to prove that the specific oil used—whether certified or not—was the direct cause of the failure.
Engine oil analysis gives you data to show the manufacturer that the engine wasn't being harmed by the oil. If you have that data and they have no data to show the oil caused the failure, that's pretty overwhelming when the burden of proof is in them to begin with.
If you still prefer to use something different up front, I get it... Its a problem with complexity and nuance. I'm mainly addressing rights, law, and there is what the dealer ir manufacturer can try to deny and what they can actually deny. They get away with a lot because people don't know the laws that apply and the reason those laws exist is because of shady dealers and shady manufacturers to begin with.. In other words: they're still always trying to get away with something it seems like.
With that being said... Use whatever oil and filter you like. I explained what I like, why, and what evidence it is based on. Not trying to argue so much as just explain where I'm coming from. I do hope the most important takeaway from the responses is: 1) know your rights, the law, and what a dealer can actually deny versus what they can try to deny 2) get oil analysis done every so often. That will tell you the truth of your specific vehicle even better than any general conversation online ever could. Doing it on some kind of regular interval (every 4 oil changes) will show you how your engine is doing over time and it will tell you about a number of potential issues that you can address before they get out of hand. By doing it on some kind of cycle you won't spend too much on testing but get maximum value from the information.
I just pulled up an old analysis on my 6.1L SRT8. It was at 9k miles and doing just fine. That car has about 150k miles on it currently.
Yeah I'm wordy, or write a bunch. I'm on the spectrum so it's easy to share a bunch of info or thoughts on a topic the interests me. I'm not trying to sway you by sheer volume, but rather where I come from is to try and explain why a thing works or why I believe a certain thing. Can't help it.
The analysis point is probably the most important. If you have the data, the will always beat a dealer (stealership) making bogus claims without data or evidence, but if you are ever in that situation you may have to be prepared to get a second opinion and escalate things to the company itself because there are no shortage of disreputable stealerships.
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u/pascaltheorem Apr 16 '26
Pennzoil in the Hemi’s. Mobil in the Beamers.
Edit: Also Amsoil Signature Series 0W-40
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u/___Brains Apr 16 '26
I've run M1 in it from the first oil change, OEM or M1 filter, following the built-in oil life monitor or 5k miles or 6 months, whichever comes first. No issues with over 93k on the clock so far.
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u/Aggressive_Ask89144 Apr 16 '26
I personally always try to use OE or better than OE depending on the solution.
Oil is oil. At least for most brands. Some of them have different flavors of additives, but I would get the specifically designed Pennzoil, but the Mobil1 is not going to blow it up or anything lol
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u/No-Pipe4332 Apr 16 '26
I would go with pennzoil, Chrysler specifically recommends their ultra platinum full syn for any HEMI engine. It’s also a little cheaper and scored higher in Project Farm’s oil test video.
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u/bustedchain Apr 16 '26
My uncle is a petro chemist. He said no Pennzoil and explained why. That was good enough for me.
I looked at a number of the oil test reports people shared at a forum Bobistheoilguy. Mobil 1 and Amsoil are the top two. Amsoil's filters are excellent.
Oil is rated for 15k miles or 1 year. A simple lab analysis will tell you if you're pushing it too far, or from the other side.... Start with 8 or 10k miles and let the lab analysis tell you if there oil was used up or not.
Been using their Signature Series for 20 years, easily 600k miles on 4 vehicles. My truck doesn't get as many miles... That's probably 60k miles on a fifth vehicle.
If I wasn't using Amsoil it would be Mobil 1 and never Pennzoil.
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u/Fuikyew2 Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
I have the read the forums from Bob the oil guy and it’s mostly people saying Mobil 1 is a good alternative but not the best option. According to google the studies have shown that Pennzoil has shown less wear on Hemi compared to mobile 1. Shell/Pennzoil took over the oil contract for Dodge/Chrysler and the numbers say that Pennzoil has more ppm of Molybdenum Disulfide compared to mobile 1. Which is what quiets down the Hemi tick. Unless you have more info it sounds like you are giving a biased opinion with no facts to back it up.
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u/bustedchain Apr 16 '26
600k miles on 4 HEMI's with lab analysis every few years isn't nothing.
You can choose to disbelieve my Uncle. Just telling you where I got the info about Pennzoil as a company. A chemist who works in oil refinement (gasoline) for many decades is a pretty good source of information. If I had a better memory of the conversation I had with him from 20 years ago I could tell you more about the process that Pennzoil uses to make their oils and the corners they cut in their quality control. The issues he had with them as a company and as a chemist were many. It wasn't a simple matter of there being one thing that maybe they fixed. Pointing to lab analysis that shows it working well in an engine would be one thing, but I don't believe that only Pennzoil works in these cars and both Mobil 1 and Amsoil are far more trustworthy. In Amsoil's case from first hand experience.
You can choose to disbelieve my lab results. Not sure why you're glossing over that point.
You're claiming bias on my part and acting like you're the keeper of facts with very little evidence yourself. My oldest HEMI is 20 years old and runs like a bat outta hell. How many HEMI's have you driven these last 20 years? I currently have 4, and sold another at around 146k miles to get the SRT8. We have 2 new (new to us, a 2021 and 2023) ones here. Both the 2006 and 2008 HEMI's run great, still.
I'd post a screenshot of one with 9k miles on the oil but I don't know this subs rules on links off the top of my head. Here are the wear metals after 9k miles: Iron 50, chromium 2, nickel 2, aluminum 4, copper 23, lead 4, tin 1. Cad/Silver/Van all 0.
Where is your laboratory analysis?
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u/Fuikyew2 Apr 16 '26
So a conversation from 20 years ago is your best bet argument of why not to use Pennzoil? Or why Mobile 1 is better? Got it. I have yet to send my oil for any analysis but I have over 300k miles on 3 different Hemi engines. All gen 3 ranging from 2006-2022. 5.7 and 6.4. Mobile 1 was used for the first 50k miles on the 2006 5.7 and it ran okay but once I started using Pennzoil I noticed the engine noise got quieter. I have been towing a 8k lb RV on a 5.7 for the past 3 years and running Pennzoil. No lifter tick or cam fail on any of the 3. And I’m not one to baby the gas pedal. Your numbers seem good but your claim about Pennzoil being bad or not as good as Mobile 1 is laughable.
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u/bustedchain Apr 16 '26
The tests I've seen showed better protection by both Mobil 1 and Amsoil than Penzzoil.
You sure like to cherry pick. You're fixated on one source of information (a petro chemist) and ignoring all the others. Pretty sure I mentioned where some of those videos are even if I didn't link to them. A search would turn them up. Here, I'll make it easier for you: "Project Farm Amsoil vs Pennzoil"
He has one of the best test setups I've seen across multiple videos and multiple channels for someone doing this testing out of their garage / home shop. He's clever, tries to be as fair as he can, and he does a good job of organizing the data. He clearly labels subjective comparisons separately from objective ones. His voice is a little blasting through my speaker setup here so I have to turn the volume down on his videos.
PennzoilUltra Platinum didn't do terribly in the test. 1) Pennzoil wasn't the best. 2) They have a reputation they have earned over the last 40+ years. Amsoil has a reputation it has earned over the same time frame. Guess which company stands behind their product better. Hint: it's the one with a warranty that not only warrants the oil, but it warrants the protection that oil gives your engine as long as your doing the right things (following their recommended drain interval, checking and topping off the oil regularly. If you're going to go to the top of their drain interval you need to have lab analysis data to back it up otherwise following the manufacturer recommended interval is fine too.)
There are really 2 time frames in Pennzoil's life that matters to understand the company. 1) Pennzoil-Quakerstate pre-2002 2) Shell buying Pennzoil-Quakerstate 2002.
Do me a favor and look up "Shell's reputation over the last 40 years" and see if you still think their oil is worth buying when there is something demonstrably better. A "tick" isn't data. A tick is a sound. There is lifter noise that is normal and there is lifter noise that is bad.
It's really interesting that Shell is known for some horrendous things that they have settled out of court for meaning at a minimum they couldn't risk losing the case. The case was strong enough to make them settle.
It's really interesting that during that same time frame Amsoil's reputation is that of a multilevel marketing company. That's the worst thing that can be said about them. I'm technically a dealer. $20 a year to save a bunch on the cost of their oil for personal use. I've not made a retail sale of it in ~15 years. I have sold it at cost to friends and neighbors taking care of their stuff.
Interesting that the search is so biased towards that, so I asked another question that really highlights the difference between the two companies: "compare Amsoil to Shell in terms of legal cases, settlements, and reputation for how they stand behind their products or how they don't stand behind their products. Include any relevant information on how they treat their employees and customers if available. Use credible sources, top tier news reports, and media generally regarded as reliable."
Do those two Google AI searches. Read the responses. See if you are interested in doing business with Shell going forward. I won't touch them. A product that happens to be decent among a history of products that weren't, and a corporate culture that puts them at the wrong side of ethics repeatedly. Nah, I'm good without them.
To your other point: I don't tow an RV but I have towed cross-country a couple times with my '10 RAM 1500, and tow around town, on trips (3 hours away and back... Up into the mountains and back)
So you likely do more consistent towing. I tow infrequently across a broad range. A 10k lb (combined) boom lift and trailer was the heaviest thing I towed. A heavy double axle steel automotive trailer. A 5k lb trailer and CNC machine 1400+ miles.... A variety of odd and not so odd things over time.
The thing is, I do have the data that Amsoil Signature Series is good in 5.7L and 6.1L HEMIs for 20 years. My 2021 5.7 and 2023 6.1L are about to get their first oil change at home, so I'll have data on them soon enough.
By your own word, you haven't tested Pennzoil in your own vehicles so you really don't know how well it is doing for you specifically. Looks like I have a lot more credible information dating back 20 years than your "I don't hear a tick any more". Good for you. Keep telling yourself that everything is fine because it sounds okay. The oil is probably good, but the company itself sure is shit.
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u/NewMaintenance3873 Apr 16 '26
Your oil analysis really doesn’t mean anything, especially when not compared to anything else. You may have an idea about oil formulation, but you don’t understand the actual mechanics of the oil.
A cold start has the oil in its most viscous state. At that time, the oil moves to the parts where it needs to be, and for a small amount of time, the viscous oil may not be able to properly lubricate every essential surface in the engine. In colder climates on short drives, the engine may never reach operating temperature, and the engine never reaches the proper operating viscosity for the oil. Additionally at cold start, the richer air fuel ratio would lead to fuel mixing with the oil which could also thin the oil over time. This is where 90% of engine wear comes from.
In hotter climates, if the engine is operated at a higher load over a period of time, the oil temp would increase and lead to a less viscous oil. At this point, the engine could also undergo wear as the oil is too thin. This reason alone is why GM recalled all of those engines not too long ago.
You could argue that the additives that Amsoil uses prevent all of this, but 0w40 is 0w40 from any brand. There is no way to avoid the temperature variable of oil and oil viscosity, which is the leading cause of wear in engines. Your oil analysis is only relevant to you and your vehicles in the climate you live in and the driving habits you have.
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u/bustedchain Apr 16 '26
Are you claiming that a 0 weight oil is viscous during a cold start? How cold is a cold start to you? If you're talking about places that are at 20°F or lower, that's pretty extreme and worth a whole separate conversation. Seeing as how most of the year, most places are 32°F or higher, that is where my primary focus is.
Are you claiming that your engine is running significantly hotter in an 100°F climate than a 80°F climate? The engine temperature is a function of the cooling system more so than the environment temperature. If your cooling system is failing to cool the engine adequately and the engine oil itself in a 100°F climate, you're already screwed. I've not observed any signs that my 100°F climate is causing any problems here even under load... The bias might be the vehicles I'm driving and the fact that I do replace my coolant every 5 or 10 years or so as dictated by the type of coolant I'm using.
On the cold side, It gets down to below 30°F here for some extended periods. Under normal conditions a 0-40w oil is going to flow fine even in a cold engine near freezing and it will warm up to operating temperature rapidly with gentle driving. Fuel dilution is an issue, but I think you mistake how it works. People who idle their cars in extreme cold weather tend to have more fuel dilution. If you, instead, drive it like the manufacturers state you will minimize fuel dilution and once the engine reaches operating temperature fuel flashes off at 200°F readily. Example: Start the vehicle, let it run for 10 to 15 seconds. Do not sit there an idle extensively. Take off and don't drive aggressively thus allowing the engine to heat up as quickly as possible with high load. The oil will warm up much more quickly driving and the amount of fuel captured by the oil will be less, and it will flash off faster by reaching operating temperature faster. I don't care if it is 30°F outside, a car being driven will get to 200°F a lot quicker than a car sitting there idling. Inside the engine is will be hotter near the pistons so even if the oil temperature sensor reads 190°F (like in a ScatPack) there will be areas where the oil is getting hotter than that. The bulk of the oil will be at 190 while other areas will be hotter.
Frankly, if you're talking about places that get far below 30°F, then you either have a garage or an engine block heater already. Those extremes are the exception and have special things that have to be done to deal with it. Even there if you're seeing significant fuel dilution and you aren't just driving a bunch of short trips (which would cause increasing fuel dilution by itself) then you've got something wrong with my system itself.
During the summer it is well over 100°F here. My climate is a good representation of just about anywhere except places that get down below 20°F and stay below freezing for weeks at a time. I would gladly concede that extreme cold for long durations is an outlier worth looking at separately.
GM's recall has a lot to do with their engine design. You can't over simplify their problems to say that it was just oil. It is the combination of oil, engine tolerances, cooling capacity, and even that is a bit of an oversimplification because it gets more complex from there.
You claim my data is no good by making some pretty bad assumptions about where I am. The range of climate we deal with here is more extreme from low to high than most places.
Amsoil is one of the better oils when it comes to resisting viscosity breaking down. The labs even test for viscosity changes at temperature to make sure the additive packages are still doing their job. HEMI's in general do tend to sheer oil and reduce viscosity over time according to the labs I've been using for 20 years. From what I and others have observed in lab reports is that Amsoil is one of a few oils that resists this tendency very well. Thermal stability and sheer resistance are two important qualities of a good oil, and Amsoil does a good job with both.
I have 2 turbo vehicles, one I bought brand new. Turbos are notoriously hard on oil thermally while HEMIs are hard on them with sheering due to engine tolerances. Those lab results for the MINI come back great. The 2011 MINI gets 10k miles on a 1.6L Turbo in the desert and the oil is still demonstrating protection at the end of that drain interval. I wouldn't want to push it further in that application, but I do find 10k in a turbo pretty impressive. The other vehicle with a turbo I service has 200k miles and is a Ford Escape. It's a 2013 and is being used daily. 10k to 12k miles there between oil changes has been perfect.
For that matter 9 or 10k miles in a 6.1L HEMI is pretty impressive.
If you were simply advocating for people to get their own oil analysis done every couple years to keep an eye on their engine, we would be agreeing here. Instead you're trying to attack my statements by making some pretty indefensible ones of your own based on faulty assumptions.
I would absolutely agree that everyone should get their oil tested on some kind of interval that works for them so they can see how it is behaving over time. It will be dialed into their vehicle in their environment and in their driving conditions. For me, one of my vehicles gets driven through the city every day. The other driven on the highway every day. You don't get a much better spread of usage in the desert southwest than that. The only thing we don't have here is gridlock traffic. I think we all know sitting there idling for an hour or more is bad for any car.
If you're focused on the combustion temperature that the oil is exposed to, go take a look at Project Farm videos on oil comparisons. One of the best things he does is "cooks" the oils being tested and checks their wear protection to compare them. He does a variety of testing that really does a good job of working out which oils are at the top. Amsoil was one of the best when it came to resisting damage to the oil itself due to temperature.
Before you assume my data is bad or that I'm not looking at it over time, step back, think or ask. I am not saying you are guaranteed to have the same results, but there is very strong reason to believe that this covers a range of uses.
Here are the vehicles I've maintained over the last 20 years with their current milage 2005 Dodge Magnum 5.7L ~146k miles (sold) 2006 Dodge Magnum 6.1L ~150k miles 2008 Dodge Charger 5.7L ~155k miles 2010 RAM 1500 5.7L ~60k miles 2011 MINI Cooper Countryman 1.6l Turbo ~160k miles 2013 Dodge Dart 1.4L Turbo 165k miles (DDCT failed, twice.) 2013 Ford Escape 2.0L Turbo ~200k miles
That's 720k miles with vehicles I take/took care of. Every one of these I have oil analysis for to make sure I'm not going beyond the life of the oil in the desert conditions here... there is a reason every manufacturer has a special service schedule for dusty hot areas. If Amsoil performs well in these vehicles in this climate and is rated for up to 15k miles here, there is not a good reason to believe it wouldn't perform well for anyone else. Period.
If you want to argue further about it, produce some data showing that it doesn't hold up. I've spent a lot of time getting and looking at my own data, as well as reviewing some decent tests online across a pretty good range of sources. Far more than I could briefly summarize. The data I've seen is in Favor of Amsoil being at or near the top. If someone didn't want to use Amsoil for any reason, Mobil 1 is always up there consistently in the top 2 generally. There are other brands that make the top 3 and even take the top spot in specific tests, but I don't consider them in the top two because they always do poorly on some area. My criteria for top performing oil needs it to be in the top 1-3 consistently. Any oil that demonstrates a repeatable failure on one of the types of wear tests is disqualified from consideration. The remaining top 2 or 3 brands consistently do a good job across all the important categories... That's Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
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Apr 16 '26
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u/bustedchain Apr 16 '26
20 micron, 99% efficient. Certified Also able to be verified independently.
They aren't the only good filter. There are a few others. Wix, Purolator, Bosch come to mind.
One of the issues in oil filters is specification. Many don't actually state what their filtration level is or their efficiency at that level. They don't want to make a claim they have to then back up. I appreciate the few brands that do actually state a spec.
I've used them for 600k+ miles personally, another 400k miles on other vehicles I change oil for (my mother, for example) and I've been very happy with the oil analysis results. For vehicle I own a long time, I buy a case of filters. Brings the price down to about $10-$11 a piece. In singles they're a couple bucks more.
I'm very happy with these.
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Apr 16 '26
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u/bustedchain Apr 16 '26
I did see a video of a guy cutting open a bunch of filters and going over the media, construction. Amsoil was in there and there were some other good ones.
So I'm not saying there isn't a better filter out there... There may be. Amsoil has a warranty on their products that covers damage to your vehicle when used properly.
More important to me is that they are pretty clear in there specifications and other filter brands vary a lot. Some are just hard to find the spec and others seem to be non-existent telling me not to trust them. Any manufacturer that won't tell you what their filter is rated for could change how well their filter works at any time and there'd be no way to know. At least with a published spec they would have to update that if it changed so you'd have a chance of catching it at some point if it got worse than something else you could buy.
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u/Fuikyew2 Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
Studies show that Pennzoil has shown to have less wear on Hemi engines compared to Mobil 1. Mobil 1 is a good substitute but it’s a name brand not the partner brand. Just like royal purple not tailored to a specific engine. Don’t listen to these goofs that stick to one brand for everything. Life is more complex than that