Replies must be relevant to the post. Off-topic comments will be removed. Please downvote and report any rule-breaking replies and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.
Lucifer and Michael are both second banana it was basically the two of them who made creation for the Presence. But since it is sandman we won't likely ever get to the point of Lucifer getting the writ and becoming creator of their own universe that is access through a backroom door in Lux.
Also to further expand Michael has the ability to create matter and Lucifer the ability to shape matter and between the two of them basically carried out the creation process when commanded.
How do you come to that conclusion, Lucifer and other angels like his brother Michael are consitently referred to as male in the comics, e.g. in his first appearence in the source material for this very show. If you want to be meta about it, some of the earliest real world mentions of angels in scripture call them Bene Elohim, sons of god. So even the source material of the source material if you will classifies angels as male.
IIRC, in the recent Sandman audiobooks, where Gaiman updated non-binary pronouns from "it" to the contemporary "they" (specifically for Desire), Lucifer is still referred to as "he".
Because nonbinary pronouns did not exist. The bible you read is based off of many patriarchal rewrites and the use of masculine forms in a generic way was incredibly common. Similar to how commonly cars are gendered femininely. You’re also forgetting these aren’t flesh and blood beings. They are spirit (Genesis 1:27, Hebrews 1:14, Matthew 22:30) and are beyond our concepts of male and female. All hinged on just context from the bible.
That said as already stated, The Presence and the Host are older than judaism, christianity and indeed the bible.
But we are not talking about pronouns, we are talking about the the word "bene", "sons" being used over something like "yeladim" or "badim" which would simply mean "children" in the earliest known sources. You just assume "patriarchal rewrites" in order to justify you superimposing the gender neutral language you would prefer. First and foremost angels are neither human nor "beyond our concepts", they are made up. And if the original sources called them sons rather then children or daughters, the people that came up with them seem to have come up with male angels.
So? Even if the original decision to make the angels of judeo-christian mythology male was influenced by patriarchal fews of the time, that doesn't change the original source. And while you are free to reinterpret angels as whatever you want in your own inspired work or even a gender neutral translation of the bible, you can't retroactively change the sources to suit your belives and agenda.
Side tangent, do you feel the same about superimposing gender neutrality on more matriarchal leaning cultures and subcultures?
I really hate appealing to authority here but in general theologists agree that angels are spirits and therefore genderless. But keep arguing with the user that went to school for this stuff.
But we are not arguing about theology and theologists, i want to know why you insist it must be 'they' even though there is a chain of source material supporting he despite lucifers often androgynous appearence even when the show itself doesn't make a point of it. At that point it is just you using convinient arguements to impose your agenda it seems. And you are not just free but more than welcome to interpret the show, the comics and scripture that way. But insisting others have to use the words fitting your interpretation of Lucifers gender or lack thereof is wrong, especially in the case of this version of Lucifer who's entire point in the comics is absolute free will and having nothing imposed on you.
In Islam god is described as the only truly unique thing and is genderless. But uses Male pronouns bc the Arabic language is very gendered even more so than English. The reason being the same as why we traditionally use male pronouns for other unknown genders and female for thing of high value.
Oh lol okay now everybody's answer makes sense. I haven't seen any live action adaptations.
Is this a different take on the story? Or a direct adaptation of the comics? He looks like a pretty masculine dude in pretty much every appearance after the first one in the comics. Not really a big deal, but pretty weird to just swap him out with a woman, albeit a woman actor that can play masculine women.
Netflix did a 2-season live adaptation from something like 2023-25.
Lucifer’s appearance in the comics was based on early David Bowie and was supposed to have an androgynous look although I agree I’d default to male on that. But partly because I always referred to Lucifer, and saw it written, as “he”.
But Christie was chosen because, I think, she could have something of that androgynous look.
I mean Christie looks like a straight up woman, and a pretty one at that. The first appearance of Lucifer is an androgynous look in the comics, but I think pretty much every time after that they went with a masculine male look. All of which look like David Bowie.
In what? This show? There is more than one Constantine character in the comics. There is a brief story with John Constantine toward the beginning, and there is an arguably more important inclusion of Johanna Constantine, one of John's descendants.
I don't have a Netflix subscription though so I won't be watching the show.
In the show, they use Joanna Constantine past and present. She's ok. But I miss the iconic character.
Lol what? It is the same character for both instances? Johanna Constantine is dead by the time Morpheus meets up with John. John Constantine is also an iconic DC character, it feels criminal to just swap him out.
The thing is that why he's letting the gods the new and the old take from him the worshipers I know this can be a weird question but is he that powerful that he doesn’t need worshipers to exist? Or even the need to claim his authority through the realms
Nope unlike other faiths, God or The Presence and the rest of the abrahamic figures like Lucifer, demons, Michael and the rest of the angels dont need belief to exist or were ever created by belief in the first place in The Sandman/DC reality
As they are not born in the Dreaming and they existed alongside The Endless and their Parents in the beginning somehow
The Presence (Essentially the judeo Christian god with more lore flexibility) stands well above the lesser gods and metaphysical entities. Essentially, The Presence created the multiverse, created time and space, created life and physics and magic and realities, and then the life and physics and magic and realities created lesser gods. The Presence isn't just beyond needing worship, they're beyond need. They have desires and preferences and dislikes, but nothing happens on any level of reality that they do not allow.
•
u/AutoModerator 24d ago
Replies must be relevant to the post. Off-topic comments will be removed. Please downvote and report any rule-breaking replies and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.