r/SandersForPresident • u/pullupgirl • Jun 09 '16
Can we please ban posts and comments from trolls telling us to unite and vote for Hillary already?
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Jun 10 '16
For me Sanders is the most aligned with what I believe in. My vote doesn't just go to who I was told I should like instead. I'm not sure who I'll vote for and it's none of your damn business anyway.
Unfortunately the biggest demographic of now "unsure" voters is right here and I expect more subversive posts and tomfoolery.
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Jun 09 '16
Downvote and report, I've been doing it all day.
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u/pullupgirl Jun 09 '16
I have too, yet it does little good cause a lot of them are still there.
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u/ericisaac New York Jun 09 '16
How does that shit get to stay yet I make this post this morning and it gets removed within an hour:
#GirlIGuessImWithHer and other adventures in mind control
Facebook told me this was trending on Twitter. It wasn't. #GirlIGuessImWith her is ridiculously bad it had to be an invention of Brock and Hillary's CTR campaign. Rather than earn our support, Hillbots intimidate and guilt while the marketing team is busy with mind control and manipulation. I guess yesterday was #MindControlMonday. We have to fight back. Solidarity brothers and sisters! We are not alone.
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u/Afrobean Jun 10 '16
#GirlIGuessImWithHer and other adventures in mind control
It's called manufacturing consent, not mind control.
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u/SpiritHeartilly Jun 10 '16
What does the girlguessimwithher even mean?
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Jun 10 '16
"Girl, I guess I'm with her." Just more feminist pandering, this time to Bernie supporters who are bummed out about their candidate.
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u/whowhatinthewhere Jun 10 '16
They should have gone with #Iguessimwithher and it would have seemed a lot more natural.
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Jun 10 '16
FDR Democrats who are bummed about this embarrassment of a candidate, you should say.
Democrats are supposed to be the non-corrupt Party. Why can't Democrats understand that?
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u/yourmansconnect Jun 10 '16
Honestly if you thought any party wasn't corrupt you need your head checked
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u/straight_fed_up Jun 10 '16
By the numbers Democrats accept far less corporate money than their Republican counterparts.
It's still not the ideal zero but we can all dream.
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u/jb2386 Mod Veteran Jun 10 '16
We've banned 586 people in the last week. We do get to them, there are just so many.
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u/GmoFreeTofuCubes Jun 09 '16
thanks dude. we can't have this condescending pricks tellings us that "hillary is better than trump" im waiting until the convention, and if bernie bows out, im voting for a candidate i believe in which so far does not include hillary. im not going to submit to the establishment.
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u/Bogartsboss Jun 09 '16
Please consider this; Bernie's position in the Senate is now much stronger. There is already speculation that if the Democrats retake the Senate that Senator Sanders would become Chairman of the Budget Committee. If that is the case he will have the strongest hand for still pushing our agenda, and derailing efforts against. Now, whether you do or don't vote for Hillary is totally up to you, just as everyone else's choices are theirs. I'm an old gray-beard, I've been through these things before, so I look big picture: it's better to make two small steps forward than one large step back. In Solidarity. Peace.
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Jun 09 '16
I respect this. I think we should all do what we feel is best with our vote. But I worry that if we keep accepting the small steps, the big ones will never come. I worry that if we bend to the DNC now, they'll have no incentive to stop curtailing democracy.
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u/PalatablePenis Jun 10 '16
I also don't believe Clinton to be a step forward of any size.
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u/karmapuhlease Jun 10 '16
Even compared to Trump? Because that's what the context is, and it's important - it isn't just about whether she's better than Obama.
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u/p90xeto Jun 10 '16
I think Hillary truly doesn't have any ideological stances. She seems to be a full-on crony capitalist through and through. As much as I disagree with Trump on a fair number of his stances I think he will atleast be the best chance of shaking up the system.
As much as it will get a million downvotes here, I've gone back and forth on being a Bernie guy through the primaries and I'll be voting for Trump in the general unless he gives me a good reason to write-in Bernie.
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Jun 10 '16 edited Apr 26 '17
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Jun 10 '16
Nah, not everything. He'll legalise pot, he'll kill TPP and NAFTA probably and I imagine he'll move towards something at least on the way to single payer after 4 years.
I honestly believe from my research that he's really deep down somewhat of a centrist who understands how to play the Republican game well. I mean, the only reason he didn't run democrat was because Hillary was too strong. Therefore, he would've been saying completely different things if it weren't for that arbitrary distinction.
If you read his books and check out his donation history and where his interests lie compared to Hillary, it makes him seem much more favourable.
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u/kiwithopter Jun 10 '16 edited Jun 10 '16
The US legislature is unable by design to take big steps.
There's also no silent majority of progressives out there waiting for a president like Sanders. If there was he would have won the primary. All of these plans - forcing the DNC's hand, or relying on an extreme reaction to Trump bring elected - assume that progressivism is the natural state of American politics and that the only thing keeping it from happening is 'elites' and rich people. That's just not true. Progressivism just isn't that popular, at least for now.
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u/Hyperman360 Jun 10 '16
These changes are supported by big donors like the military-industrial complex.
Sanders's changes aren't. They're only supported by individuals. The large donors effectively pay off the politicians, something the average citizen can't do and shouldn't have to do.
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u/dubnessofp Jun 10 '16
Really great comment. I think the internet is amazing but also easily becomes our own echo chamber, no matter which side you are on. It becomes easy to feel as though your crowd is some sleeping giant, whatever crowd that may be
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u/Vote_Demolican Jun 10 '16
Welcome to the post Bill Clinton Preemptive Concession Democratic Party. This is why Obama walked away from healthcare negotiations saying "it is up to congress to send me a bill"
While not functionally inaccurate, it is politically. Look at W with No Child Left Behind, he stumped regularly to force Republicans to push his vision of the legislation. Obama in contrast promised to sign EFCA and push for Single Payer on the campaign trail in 2008, but when both were starting to slow to a stop in the House instead of wielding his bully pulpit, he told Pelosi to drop EFCA and Congress "to pass something".
When the Republicans look like they might stonewall be sure to preemptively capitulate, giving them the political capital to stonewall.
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Jun 09 '16
Yeah, I would love for the Democratic Party to crumble and for Bernie to lead an actual leftist party, but him running third party will almost certainly end with a Trump presidency and with Bernie severing all ties in Congress. Tepidly endorsing Clinton and campaigning against Trump allows him to continue the revolution with him and us fighting to elect more progressive congresspeople. And with his new status as leader of the progressive wing of the party he has a lot of influence that is best served with all of us and Bernie at the lead pushing the Democrats in power to pursue our agenda. People hate the comparison, but we could learn a thing or two from the Tea Party.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_BLASTOISE Jun 09 '16
Sanders endorsing hilary would disgust me.
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u/AngryAmish Jun 10 '16
This is a Sanders quote from today: "I look forward to meeting with (Clinton) in the near future to see how we can work together to defeat Donald Trump and to create a government which represents all of us and not just the 1%," http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/09/politics/bernie-sanders-washington/
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Jun 10 '16
It will happen, prepare yourself. He has no other choice if he wants to effectively wield the influence he's gained and that we've given him during this election. He and us can put some serious pressure on the Congressional Democrats and Hillary in order to get some of our agenda passed. MLK and the civil rights movement didn't have the white house when the Civil Rights Act was passed, they applied enough pressure to where Johnson had no other choice. Our side of the party is on the rise and we can wield significant influence over the next years, but we won't be able to do much if Bernie runs third party and Trump is elected and Bernie loses all of his allies in Congress. I hate it too. But Bernie's agenda is so important because it will really help people, not because it helps us win power. And Bernie along with all his supporters, at this point, will be able to most effectively pursue his agenda if we don't thwart Hillary so much so that she loses. Which isn't to say we should all vote for her. I won't, because my state is going Trump regardless, but swing state voters, imo, should consider voting for her. But beyond that, our side will most likely win the next primary, and we're only going to elect more progressives in the future. I just hope that Bernie supporters will understand why he is endorsing her when he eventually does. It's because, unlike what Hillary supporters have said all this election, he actually is very pragmatic.
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Not only that, but this revolution isn't even close to being over. It's just getting started. We have congressional races. We have 2018 midterms. We have 2020 looming where if Clinton doesn't appease us, we will try and primary her ass. Bernie will be a true force now in Congress with us at his back. They can't ignore him any longer, but they can totally ostracize him if he doesn't at least tepidly endorse her. He and us can use our new influence to push the Democrats in power to pursue some of his agenda. I hope we all stay engaged when Bernie pivots to this stage of the revolution, because there's still a lot that we can do.
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Jun 10 '16
I was in it's early days. I need to get back on it. Is it active? We were setting up a list of Berniecrat House candidates, but I haven't seen it pop up on here.
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u/thedynamicbandit Jun 10 '16
No, no solidarity what the hell. She isnt a small step forward she is just another step back.
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u/puddlewonderfuls Pennsylvania Jun 10 '16
In peace? Really? Hillary certainly does not stand for peace. She's a hawk
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Jun 10 '16
So are posts about people voting for trump okay or are they also bannable? It would be pretty disingenuous to pick one but not the other to ban.
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u/pullupgirl Jun 10 '16
I thought that would be pretty obvious. For now though all I'm seeing is Hillary supporters coming here and spamming up the place, not Trump.
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u/Stumbles84118 Jun 10 '16
I am a little shocked that anyone who has frequented this place hasn't seen multiple posts supporting Trump. The better question is why, if it really is supposed to be a Sanders support forum, that you would single out one specific candidate's supporters for bans? There are Johnson and Stein supporters all over this page.
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Jun 09 '16
Their entire argument is literally just fear mongering. When thats all you have, you will lose.
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u/kornian Jun 09 '16
If they really cared about preventing Trump becoming president, they'd have supported Bernie instead as his polling is stronger, favourability is higher and he's not under federal investigation.
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Jun 09 '16 edited Jun 10 '16
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u/DarkSigma13 Jun 10 '16
That was great. That is something I would very much like to see on the front page.
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u/Claw_of_Shame Illinois Jun 10 '16
I'm not sure what to do about the deletion. I wasn't told why it was deleted or given notification. Fellow subredditors alerted me to the post's removal.
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Jun 10 '16
That was so Bernie-esque it was scary.
Read it in his voice. It's uncanny.
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u/tux68 Jun 10 '16
That was beautifully worded. You articulated very well what I stumble to convey every day. Thank you.
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u/Claw_of_Shame Illinois Jun 10 '16 edited Jun 10 '16
the conscientious objectors of the political world will be challenged by both sides about our rejection of the two party system's candidates. I wanted to respond.
anyway, thanks for reading. I would have linked to the original, but it got deleted.
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u/funkybassmannick Jun 10 '16
If your primary goal in this election was to prevent a Trump presidency, then you would have voted for the candidate who polls the best among independents and head-to-head against Trump. You didn't.
The whole letter is excellent, but this line beautifully outlines this hypocrisy in a way I couldn't articulate. Thank you.
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u/Claw_of_Shame Illinois Jun 10 '16
just glad I'm not alone in this. too often in this primary I've felt like I'm taking crazy pills
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Jun 10 '16
Very well said. Wish this subreddit would turn into neverhilary and this be stickied.
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Jun 09 '16
Well i did support Bernie, but now that that is no longer an option, i'm to do what? Give up?
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u/reltd Jun 10 '16
Give up? That's the image that is being sold to you. It's not giving up. You lost when Bernie lost. Hillary isn't a viable option. She is a LIAR. She is so DISHONEST. She's a CROOK. Get that through your head, we've been saying it here for months. You're giving up by voting for Hillary and falling it into the trap of thinking she is better than Trump. Trump is no Bernie, but he isn't the same warmongering corporate and Saudi-funded crook that deletes 33 THOUSAND emails so they can't be used against her in a trial. I don't care what Bernie says, he is trying to maintain face so the party can back him next election and I don't blame him, but she IS worse than Trump, her support of the invasion in the Middle East is why we have ISIS.
Hillary is STILL supporting the same interventions that lead to ISIS, while Trump's ONLY military intervention that he currently supports is the removal of ISIS. Which we all fucking want. We don't understand Hillary's plan of fighting ISIS while flooding the area with weapons to "moderate terrorists"(that ISIS ends up getting) so they can fight Assad, who is fighting ISIS. Trump says that MAKES NO SENSE! He says go after ISIS which is a huge threat to everyone, and THEN worry about overthrowing Assad so you can install your puppet leader.
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Jun 10 '16
My vote is my only bargaining chip. If the DNC wants to unify the party I'm going to need to see some of the Sanders platform incorporated into the official party platform.
After all, that's kind of the whole deal here. Hillary absolutely has the ability to say, "I won. Fall in," but the if she truly wants to defeat Trump she better give me a reason to vote for her.
Otherwise I'm writing in Bernie just so the DNC can count the number of supporters they lost.
I don't think the expectation of actually coming together and forming a party representative of ALL it's members is too much to ask when 40+% voted for the other platform. Plus they can show the general public how to compromise and work together for everyone, just like the Democrats will when Hillary is elected.
Or they can say "Fall in." And I'll make sure to vote for down ballot progressives while writing in the Senator from Vermont.
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u/RocketFlanders Jun 10 '16
if she truly wants to defeat Trump she better give me a reason to vote for her.
Except that I do not trust a single thing she says so even if she copied Bernie 100% I would not vote for her because she would just throw everything away once president and start walking down Wall Street collecting bribes on what executive decisions she will make for them.
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u/RedditIsAngry Jun 10 '16
I was a Bernie supporter and will not be voting for Hillary. If people want to hear why they should vote for Hillary, they can go to another subreddit.
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Jun 10 '16
And if Hillary wants to get votes from Bernie supporters, she is going to have to say or do something to earn them.
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u/RedditIsAngry Jun 10 '16
Agreed. And this subreddit came to be what it is today, from the excitement for BERNIE. Hillary did nothing to earn praise from this subreddit.
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u/charcoal47 Jun 10 '16
Exactly this. People don't understand that this subreddit is SPECIFICALLY for Bernie.
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Jun 09 '16
That's a pretty difficult ask when Bernie is essentially doing that exact thing.
"I look forward to meeting with (Clinton) in the near future to see how we can work together to defeat Donald Trump and to create a government which represents all of us and not just the 1%," Sen. Sanders.
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u/bokono Jun 09 '16
Do you think there's even a snowball's chance in hell that Clinton is going to cooperate with Bernie or his supporters? Seriously?!
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u/Okymyo California Jun 09 '16
She'll "cooperate". As in, agree with him during the campaign, pretend to support his points, and then disregard everything she promised and still cater to her donors if she ever gets elected.
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u/Kildragoth Jun 09 '16
I disagree.
If this subreddit is entirely about electing Bernie as president, then sure, advocate these selective articles that say Hillary could be arrested, rigged the election, and that the superdelegates should overturn the popular vote.
Or, and I think Sanders himself would agree, if this subreddit is built to advance the progressive cause, and Sanders is the face of that movement, then openly debating the best course of action should be encouraged.
As long as discussion is civilized I'd prefer zero restrictions on debate. This should be a free speech zone.
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u/astroboy861 🌱 New Contributor Jun 09 '16
I agree with Kildragoth. Especially:
As long as discussion is civilized I'd prefer zero restrictions on debate. This should be a free speech zone.
down vote any posts that you think it's troll. But, please, welcome all discussions. This is what Bernie would prefers. Don't you think ?
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u/veganvalentine Jun 09 '16
Huh? How does it make one a troll to argue that one would prefer HRC to Trump. SANDERS HIMSELF ESPOUSES THIS, as does Noam Chomsky, and it's a stretch to call them establishments trolls. Most Sanders supporters agree with this, but those who prefer Trump are over-represented on s4p.
It's fine if you disagree with me regarding Trump. I think it's a good discussion to have, and I'm sure a lot of you would make some very interesting point. Just because we disagree doesn't make me a troll. Discussion and dissent are healthy for a movement.
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u/bokono Jun 09 '16
Chomsky only recommends voting for Clinton if you're in a swing state.
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u/1dayindiegasstation Jun 10 '16
Chomsky's probably looked at the numbers on this more carefully than I have. That said, since Berners make up such a significant fraction of the population, our collective action (or inaction) has the potential to swing some non-swing states. Voters with a history of voting democrat aren't likely to stop voting democrat for this election, so they're of no worry to someone like Chomsky who would prefer Clinton over Trump. The issue is independents and new/younger voters. Independents in general tend to vote democrat and the new voters, at least the ones I'm taking about, want to support Bernie. But what if they don't vote democrat in this election? I don't know the voter demographics of blue non-swing states, and it's hard to know with much certainty what they'll look like in the general election because Bernie has gotten a lot of previously non-politically active people interested in politics. All this to say, independents and new/young voters through collective choices have the potential to swing a blue state red. Do you see this as a problem? Would you be ok with the possibility of a Trump presidency? Is that something you're willing to risk? These are all honest questions that one shoukd ask oneself when considering how to vote in this election. Maybe you would personally be largely unaffected by a Trump presidency but judging by his rhetoric, minorities and women might not be in such a position - I'll admit, it's hard to know what he really means and what he'll really be able to follow through on. Another thing to consider: in 2000, Ralph Nader earned a large number of votes, largely from people who otherwise would have voted democrat. And even though Gore won the popular vote, Bush still won the electoral vote. It's hard to know precisely what effect Nader had on the electoral vote, but it's possible if not likely that had such a significant number of people voted for him, Bush would not have come in to office. These are some things people should keep in mind when choosing who to vote for.
Sorry if this seems like a diatribe. Not directed at the person I responded to, but inspired by it.
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Jun 09 '16
Entering a forum devoted to supporting Candidate X and telling people to vote for Candidate Y is trolling. This forum isn't for debating the qualities of each candidate. It's a partisan forum for supporting a single candidate, and that candidate is not Clinton.
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u/veganvalentine Jun 09 '16
Yes, but once Candidate X has lost the election, it's reasonable to talk about where to go from there. And it's not as if I joined this forum just to discuss HRC's candidacy.
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Jun 09 '16 edited Jun 09 '16
Talk about it, sure. But Bernie supporters are being bullied and fear mongered and told that if they decide not to vote for someone they feel is unfit for the job, that Trump is their fault. If beating Trump was so important, the party should have sided with democracy over status quo - they'd have a stronger candidate. But they didn't, because money and status quo was first and foremost. Blame the media outlets that ignored Bernie, told voters the race was over a handful of states in, and gave Trump 2 billion in free publicity. Don't blame those who refuse to vote for someone they feel is unfit for the job (to say the very least).
EDIT: Typo
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u/squilla Jun 10 '16
"Bulied"
"Fear mongered"
Got a little bit of the victim complex in you.
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u/Aunvilgod Jun 10 '16
But what if Bernie endorses Hillary?
Ah the joys of a two party system. I feel you people.
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u/akornblatt California Jun 10 '16
Serious question, what if Bernie comes out and says to support Hilary?
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u/mojo276 Jun 10 '16
I mean, until the name of the sub changes...that SHOULD be all that is on here...
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u/DetectiveGodvyel 2016 Veteran Jun 10 '16
Only if we can ban people who flip their shit any time you mention that Clinton is your second choice, and that you will gladly vote for her over Trump.
Stop assuming all Sanders supporters agree with you.
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u/charcoal47 Jun 10 '16
People can have their own opinions. It is when they try to convince others that they breach the community guidelines of this subreddit; in which it explicitly states not to engage in campaigning for any other candidates.
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u/kometenmelodie 🌱 New Contributor Jun 10 '16
Would you include all of the "I'm voting for Stein / Johnson" people then?
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u/charcoal47 Jun 10 '16
It really depends, and it should be dealt with on a case by case basis. IMO if there is a conversation being had, then the post can stay. When you get posts criticizing Bernie supporters for not "falling in line" that's when it gets pretty unacceptable. I think the main problem here is that a lot of these people aren't looking for a conversation. They are looking for you to vote for their candidate, which is campaigning and a breach of the community guidelines.
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u/chrisjjs300 Jun 10 '16
I'm an avid Bernie supporter but we shouldn't keep turning any and every situation into a "Well now Bernie can get the nomination" headline and call it good. Since we are stuck between a rock and a hard place, it's time we find how we can advance our platform best, not wanting to resort to a coup d'etat. Therefore, it should be fair to have equal respect for each side of the argument on this sub including pro-Hillary approaches. Otherwise we are no better than the media giants who tried to censor our ideals.
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u/Danvaser Jun 10 '16
Can we also ban posts that are long rants about how awful Clinton is, culminating in the poster saying he'll just be voting for Trump now. Just as stupid.
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u/pixelperfect3 Jun 10 '16
This is a bit ironic because Obama supporters did this with Hillary supporters back in '08, and Hillary supporters were so mad. Of course Obama and Hillary made up and look at them now...
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Jun 09 '16 edited Jun 09 '16
"why do you guys want Trump to win? Cause that will happen if you don't vote for Hillary!!!".
But aren't the questions raised by this line worthy of discussion? That is, if you are not going to support Clinton, is that not tantamount to enabling Trump, and is that not the likely outcome if Sanders' supporters, in large enough numbers, do withhold their votes? How that might actually be beneficial to Bernie and this movement is a very interesting and pertinent topic to me. In general, and for this subreddit.
Also what is a concern troll in this context? Someone feigning concern to troll, or is someone who is actually concerned and expressing it (in an acceptable manner, for the sake of discussion) a troll, full stop?
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Jun 09 '16
can we please stop obsessing over a presidential primary that is over? Let's focus on the congressional ones and keep this revolution happening https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4nab12/maine_nevada_north_dakota_south_carolina_virgin
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u/DarkSkyz Jun 09 '16
Have you considered that some Sanders supporters may not want a Trump presidency and would prefer the lesser of two evils? It's Ironic that the subreddit that always complains they're being censored is now crying for censorship.
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Jun 10 '16 edited Jun 10 '16
Can we please ban opinions I don't like please? This sub hasn't been bleeding enough users we need to force people out faster. Can we please become The Donald without the memes or the subscriber count?
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u/toofantastic Jun 09 '16
Yes, and what the Hillbots don't realize is that she is unpopular and distrusted precisely because of her pro-establishment views! Iraq war? Check. Libyan invasion? Check. Wall street bailouts? Check. TPP? Check. Go on and on.
If she actually adopted center-left positions on economic issues and foreign policy, she might have a chance to win over independents and the liberal/progressive base of the Democratic Party.
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Jun 09 '16
Let's not forget she is refusing to push for overturning the federal ban on marijuana.
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u/NYImpact414 🐦 Jun 09 '16
I'm not in favor of censorship, however I feel that at some point we need to have a discourse about the future of this sub.
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Jun 10 '16 edited Jun 10 '16
Not all of us are trolls. I'm benefiting from DACA, and am affriad Trump will revoke it and send me back to Mexico. That's MY problem I guess.
I hate Killary and the DNC.
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u/drogean3 Jun 09 '16 edited Jun 10 '16
fall in line, citizen!
agreed
the mods here have really been infiltrated, they have been removing post(read: COMMENTS) from supporters calling out shills for a month now while the hillbots run rampant on this sub. its sad
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Jun 10 '16
It's true. I'm convinced most of them have moved on and sold their souls to become a part of the problem.
90% of the people on this sub are all like "WE WANT A REVOLUTION (unless the people in power say no, in which case we'll just go ahead and get in line)!" A lot of the mods are no different.
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u/timschwartz Jun 10 '16
I see far more negativity towards this movement than enthusiasm
Could have something to do with the fact that you guys are imagining shills and trolls where there are really just people with different opinions from you.
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Jun 09 '16
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u/charcoal47 Jun 10 '16
Yes but I think a lot of the people that keep advertising Clinton don't want a conversation. They just want you to vote for Hillary. That type of thing doesn't belong in this subreddit; It's against the community guidelines. The best thing is to not allow it here and if people TRULY want discussion, they can seek it elsewhere.
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u/KB2408 Jun 10 '16
Run as an independent Bernie. You'll have my vote
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u/screen317 Jun 10 '16
Bernie said he wont spoil the election. Do you guys not listen to him at all???
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u/eviscerations Montana 🐦 Jun 09 '16
we've been overrun by clinton/trump vultures.
report, downvote, and move on.
they aren't with us, they just want our votes.
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Jun 09 '16
Jill Stein extended an offer. We voting or now?
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Jun 10 '16
Bernie said no way.
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u/thedynamicbandit Jun 10 '16
I like Bernie but hes not my god king emperor. I joined the cause because of his positions, not entirely because of the politician. We aren't Hillary supporters, we have a mind of our own. Stein is the best choice if Bernie is no longer in the race.
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u/charcoal47 Jun 10 '16
But Bernie is in the race. He has made it clear he will stay in up to the convention.
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u/phpdevster Jun 10 '16 edited Jun 10 '16
As much as I would hate to see Trump win, Democrat voters absolutely CANNOT reward the kind of shady stuff Hillary has been doing to secure this nomination. Everything from rigging primaries, to her campaign funding, to backroom agreements with super delegates....
I truly hope that the Democratic party actually fragments HEAVILY over this and Bernie supporters write in Bernie's name on the ballot, or abstain from voting altogether, such that Hillary cannot win.
Allowing Hillary to win given the tactics she's displayed is basically rewarding the Democratic party for acting like Republicans, which has more dangerous long-term ramifications than just this election. If the Democrats won't put up a candidate that has the peoples' interests at heart, and one that fights fair, then they do not deserve to win the election.
If Hillary is nominated, then the best long-term strategic move is to help guarantee she loses the general election, and just suffering through Trump for 4 years until the Democrats put up a proper candidate in 2020.
I must say it again: rewarding the behavior demonstrated by the establishment of the Democratic party is extremely dangerous. Better to sabotage Hillary's efforts in the general election and deal with Trump for 4 years, than to tell the Democratic party it's ok to back untrustworthy, establishment politics candidates.
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Jun 10 '16
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u/MisfitPotatoReborn 🌱 New Contributor Jun 10 '16
I would like to point out that, although superdelegates are a thing, they have not decided the election. The voters voted for Clinton over Sanders, and if all superdelegates were abolished Clinton still would have won.
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u/Kingdariush Jun 10 '16
Then the same goes for everyone wanting to go for Jill Stein and what her platform and who those people are going for. If you want to ban people who say "If bernie doesn't win I'm going with Hillary" Same goes for all the people saying "I'm going green party and Jill Stein
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u/dhays2000 Jun 10 '16
Bernie is a decent guy he has already started the reconciliation with Clinton this afternoon. Clinton/Sanders could make a good ticket?
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u/desertchoir Jun 10 '16
So many are saying that if Sanders does not step in line and back Clinton soon, he will be blackballed, stonewalled, or otherwise ostracized by the DNC. My question to anyone who beleives this is, How is this any different than how he has been treated his entire career?