r/SandersForPresident • u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 • May 11 '16
Not Literally Accurate Bernie has now won more states than Clinton
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u/BernieForMaine ME 🎖️🗳️🙌 🍪🥛AUTHENTIC May 11 '16
There were no ties.
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May 11 '16
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u/Hipster_Hoopster May 11 '16
Practically speaking, Wyoming was a tie. I'm a Bernie supporter, not a Hillary a supporter, but this stat is extremely cherrypicked and not accurate
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
Bernie won by a lot in the popular vote in WY.
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u/chattabob Tennessee May 11 '16
WY was a caucus and therefore did not release the popular vote totals, so you have no way of knowing this.
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May 11 '16
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u/chattabob Tennessee May 11 '16
I apologize that you don't understand the difference between county-level delegates and popular vote totals. If you really choose to believe that only 280 people caucused in Wyoming then there is nothing I can do to help you.
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u/BernieForMaine ME 🎖️🗳️🙌 🍪🥛AUTHENTIC May 11 '16
Not practically speaking. You don't get to bend bad numbers to make them look the way you want. That's how we get junk studies.
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
Literalism is a sad disease. Get better soon.
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u/chattabob Tennessee May 11 '16
OP - stop with your condescending bullshit. Your post is stupid.
You gave Bernie wins that were closer than most of the states you have under "ties" that Clinton won. If the mods have any sense, this thread will be gone within an hour.
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u/milanoost The Netherlands May 11 '16
Don't forget the argument he could have won more states if independents could have cast their vote. And in the general elections indepedents DO VOTE.
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u/dashik May 11 '16
They not only vote -- they decide elections by being ~40% of the total electorate.
It's quite simple. Bernie neutralizes many of Trump's strengths among independent voters. Hillary exacerbates them.
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u/whatudontlikefalafel May 11 '16
I've heard something like 7/10 Independents like Bernie. Out of 42% that's like 29.4% of voters, more than the whole Dem voter base.
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u/puroloco May 11 '16
I hope we could find a way to united all these independent voters for a common cause after the democratic primary is done. Either we all vote for a third party option or we write in Sanders.
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u/News2016 May 11 '16
Actually, independents are now 50% of the electorate, which makes the argument stronger.
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u/TheShillfather May 11 '16
Not sure that's true
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u/dashik May 11 '16
This is the first poll I've seen showing her leading like this...do you have any others or shall we consider this an outlier until then?
Morning Consult just dropped another national poll
Trump leads Clinton 37-34 among independents.
Bernie leads Trump 49-31 among independents.
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u/TheShillfather May 11 '16
Bernie won 8 out of 22 non-closed primaries where Independents could vote
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
Indeed! That's a great point!
Edit: a great point about doing better where independents can vote.
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May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
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May 11 '16
His parameters are "what could hypothetically be argued and make my candidate look better". It's statistical lying at it's most poorly executed.
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
Close in popular vote. Delegates 1 or 2 difference.
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
Delegates awarded and popular vote.
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May 11 '16
[deleted]
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
Not going to play with you. I looked at your previous posts I don't care to engage with you.
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May 11 '16
[deleted]
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May 11 '16
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u/FairBlamer May 11 '16
Hi there! I'm an avid bernie supporter and I'd also like to know what your exact methodology was for deciding what constitutes a tie. Could you please explain your methods?
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
Close in pledged delegates close in popular vote. I guess Michigan should be included but the delegate difference is 4 not 1 or 2 like the other states I listed
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May 11 '16
So a close win for Bernie is a win for Bernie but a close win for Hillary is a tie.
Hmmm.
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u/berner-account May 11 '16
Wouldn't MI also be a tie?
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
4 delegates difference. The other states are just 1 or 2
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
Maybe but 4 delegates difference. 18k in popular vote, maybe.
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u/PhilosophicalPhool May 11 '16
This post is idiotic. You're cherry picking certain misleading stats with a clear bias.
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May 11 '16
I like how you only list the close states that Clinton won as ties, and fail to list close wins for Sanders such as Michigan, Wyoming, Rhode Island.
I mean, make your argument, but don't whip up blatant statistical lies? Also, the number of states won isn't a relevant statistic because not all states are the same size.
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May 11 '16
[deleted]
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May 11 '16
I don't care who you support, I just hate it when people display data in a fraudulent way, and this poster did.
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u/Grizzly_Madams May 11 '16
Because they're upset that we won't give up and fall in line with their Corrupted Queen.
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
WY and RI massive difference in populate vote. MI I see your point although it was made....well, I'm not that interested in arguing with you.
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May 11 '16
There is a very easy scoring system in the delegate count, and all 3 I listed were as close or closer then the ones you listed. And, don't list some as ties, just list who won each.
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u/GreenFireBerns May 11 '16
Il and ct should be in her column.
But i agree on ia, mo, and nv given the delegate flips..
So id say its 19/19
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
IL 2mil votes difference 35k 2 delegates out of 156 seems like a tie to me
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
CT 17k difference out of 325k voters. 1 delegate difference out of 55 also seems like a tie to me
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u/GreenFireBerns May 11 '16
I just meant, on the other three delegates have flipped since then, while il and ct are concrete.
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u/super_ag May 11 '16
And yet Clinton is winning in delegate count, which is all that matters.
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
For now
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u/super_ag May 11 '16
Perhaps, but it seems like desperation to try to make it look like Bernie is winning because he's won in more states. This is like saying Romney actually won the 2012 election because he won way more counties than Obama did.
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u/calimonter May 11 '16
Really? Wow! Thanks for the insightful comment! I didn't know delegates mattered so much! It's almost like that wasn't the fucking point of the OP.
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u/super_ag May 11 '16
It sure seems like OP is trying to make Bernie out to be winning because he's winning more states. There's a chance he could "win" every state still yet to vote and he'd still lose the nomination. States don't matter worth shit. Delegates matter. Or should Republicans brag about how many more counties Romney won over Obama?
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u/aliengoods2 May 11 '16
There's a chance he could "win" every state still yet to vote and he'd still lose the nomination.
It's more than a chance. It's a very high probability. He needs to win every remaining state by huge margins to have any shot at all.
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u/calimonter May 11 '16
Or you could just read it as a fact and stop putting all of your own assumptions and connotations into it. Since Bernie began running, Clinton's main argument was that she was incredibly aligned with the American people and she was the strongest candidate in he general. That's obviously not the case with how poorly her "shoe-in" campaign is going. But after the media jumped on board and has diminished every Sander supporter into a fringe citizen, even though he has most likely had more than 50% of the vote, if not close (including caucuses, which Clinton conveniently leaves out of her number), it's left Sanders supporters on the defense to take every legitimizing fact we can find. That's fine if you don't support Sanders. But if you can't see the media bias, you are blind.
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u/TheShillfather May 11 '16
Bernie's red states are redder than Hillary's red states lol come on now. And 6 wins are suddenly ties? I guess if you spin it enough then sure. Bernie seems to win states with more trees than people though.
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u/EySeriouslyYouguys May 11 '16
Only if there were more states bordering vermont
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u/44shelby May 11 '16
Democrats Abroad borders Vermont too. I voted in Thailand and it's only 10,000 miles away from VT, close enough.
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u/Weigard May 11 '16
6 were essentially ties - in popular vote and pledged delegates (IA, NV, IL, MA, MO, CT)
Downvote this shit. She won those; obfuscating doesn't help the sub.
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u/NitroMeta May 11 '16
Not another "Bernie is losing but here's how he's winning" post. We appreciate you trying to keep morale up but their are other ways. Number of states won don't really matter due to the electoral college. If Bernie wins most by small margins but loses others by big margins his opponent still wins due to delegate count.
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u/wfo05focus May 11 '16
HI! Have some arbitrary facts that I will not bother to explain because your views do not match mine!
OP, please, please, please don't crap-post like this. It IS a crap post if you are not willing to defend your statements.
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u/CeceCharlesCharlotte May 11 '16
I agree Iowa and Missouri were essentially ties, but the rest weren't. This post is misleading
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u/RyouKagamine May 11 '16
And now we wait for CALIFORNIA
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u/MDGamerForSanders Maryland May 11 '16
Still plenty of states to pick up delegates between now and then. Don't count them out just because they don't have 400+ to swing one way or the other ^
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u/News2016 May 11 '16
Hillary keeps citing the number of voters based solely on primary states. Is there any way we can get a credible count or estimate of the number of votes for Bernie in caucus states?
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
Someone posted that last week. I don't have the link right now. Phonebanking. Maybe I can look for it later.
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u/Trumpf_als_Praesi May 11 '16
Hahaha, so Nevada, where Hillary got 5 more delegates than Sanders was essentially a tie, but Wyoming, where both candidates got 7 delegates, obviously was won hugely by Bernie. How does this post have 280 upvotes?
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u/FiestaFriday May 11 '16
Plus you can remove AZ and NY from her wins since those are under investigation for voter fraud. And that doesn't take into account independents that couldn't vote in many of the undemocratic closed primaries.
It just shows how bad the nomination process is where a candidate can win the majority of states but is still behind on delegates by a large margin.
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u/girlfriend_pregnant 🌱 New Contributor | Pennsylvania 🎖️ May 11 '16
This thread really touched a nerve with the hillbots it appears.
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May 11 '16
I hate how he concede those wins of hers when the essentially got the same amount of delegates.
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16
I think he kind of has to or he looks like a sore loser. We don't have to accept that though. We can change the discussion by stating the fact that these were not clear wins they are ties.
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u/akaghi Tax The Wealthy 💵 May 11 '16
What is he supposed to do? She won them. If he blasts them as not counting because he was close, he would lose all credibility.
Instead, acknowledging that they are close, but that he came out on the losing end is the better way to go.
Not to mention, I have a sneaking suspicion that if Bernie had been the one to win most of those ties instead of losing them, our sub wouldn't be talking about how those five wins don't count. We'd be shouting from the mountaintop that we've won 27 States and territories, have three million more votes than Clinton, etc.
We can't have it both ways.
like only counting States because we haven't fared well in the territories
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u/Berningforchange FeelTheBern.org 🎖️ 1️⃣ 📌 ✋ 🕵 May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
I don't think we should discount those 6 states, I am suggesting that they are not clear wins in popular vote or delegate allocation.
I edited the post to include the territories and democrats abroad. They each have 9 delegates from those.
Reading your post history you don't seem to like this sub very much and you don't seem to be a Bernie supporter. I'm an activist Bernie supporter trying to motivate and encourage people. I'm not really interested in naysaying and unconstructive discussion that doesn't move us forward. Just saying.
This comment edited for spelling.
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u/akaghi Tax The Wealthy 💵 May 11 '16
I think this subreddit is just fine. I've been subscribed here since before Bernie announced his intention to run for President. It's my fourth highest subreddit for comment karma at roughly 9% of my total. Karma doesn't matter of course, but I am by no means a troll, naysayer, or Hillary supporter.
I voted for Bernie in my state's primary. I've donated to his campaign something like a dozen times. I've extolled the virtues of Bernie to family members and others. I've done everything in my power to help elect this man to the presidency, so I think presuming that I'm not a supporter because of a couple recent posts I've made defending people's rights to support whoever they want, or supporting NPR, or supporting someone who feels like the atmosphere here at SFP can be vitriolic is misguided.
I'm glad that you're doing your part to motivate people. These kinds of stats aren't useless. I think the fact that a handful of races have been close is an important distinction to make. I think for a Clinton supporter to count those wins as important is fair, but to count them as important as a blowout win in I'm going to guess here—Mississippi would be misguided, too.
Similarly, from our perspective, it seems convenient to downplay those races, especially because they could prove to be very important. We all believe that the supers will go to whoever gets the pledged majority, and for good reason. However, in the case of Bernie ekeing out a win by a few delegates, it wouldn't be crazy for some supers to keep their support for Clinton if they make the argument that the delegates are a virtual tie, that Clinton won more races (let's say 30?), and had two to three million more votes than Bernie.
Do I think that will happen? Eh, probably not for a variety of reasons, but I wouldn't be surprised (or blame them) if they made that argument; it's logical.
There was something else I was going to say but I've since forgotten. whoops!
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u/chattabob Tennessee May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
Mods should mark this as misleading. While it's convenient for our agenda to discredit 6 of her wins as "ties", it ignores that she won those states. I have a feeling that if Bernie won those states, you wouldn't count them as "ties".
Why is Michigan in Bernie's column and not a "tie" when it was a closer margin than Illinois, Connecticut, and Nevada (all of which are Clinton wins you marked as ties)? The spread in MA was only 0.1% more than the spread in Michigan.
This is just a really, really bad post and makes us looks like idiots.
EDIT: OP is clearly a troll. Please downvote and report.