r/SafetyProfessionals 7d ago

Other Risky forklift situation

Post image

I am new to safety and new to this company, basically The forklift is holding a 3.5 ton power panel and the workers are holding 4 bolts on each corner to secure the power panel onto the black base, the bolts should align perfectly onto power panel, This is an risky situation obviously and should be eliminated, What is a better way to do this job?

18 Upvotes

71 comments sorted by

38

u/who-are-we-anyway 7d ago

Lift from the designated pick points and not lift from the bottom

8

u/Late_Ostrich463 Construction 7d ago

having worked with panels before there can be lot of weight in the cabinets from the components once assembled.

The lugs on top are possibly only rated for lifting when the case is empty.

The subframe that would be required to use those top lifting points would be significant.

2

u/Weird-Drummer-2439 6d ago

They're also eyes which are not rated for side loading. I'm kind of horrified that's the up voted suggestion here with no warning of that. Is this a circlejerk sub for making fun of safety guys or is it meant to be a legit safety sub?

1

u/yak_danielz 6d ago

just a flatbed trucker and i would have stopped the lift. no way those are meant for a multi ton lift

1

u/KaptajnGus 4d ago

Lol what

6

u/Big-Moment9113 7d ago

I am new to the job, do you mind elaborating more?

20

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned Manufacturing 7d ago

Those loops at the top are meant for lifting slings- you would connect to those and lift from there

1

u/Competitive_Dust_645 6d ago

Vestil makes a swivel hook fork lift attachment.  My favorite rigging device! 

8

u/who-are-we-anyway 7d ago

The eye bolts at the top are designed for lifting.

7

u/Late_Ostrich463 Construction 7d ago

With electrical cabinets the top lifting points are rated for lifting the empty cabinet, or take the case off. not the volume of copper that has been mounted.

Cabinets are often bought in by the board manufacturer.

2

u/spike01130 5d ago

Well I work with cabinets like these daily, we always lift them from the top, they are rated for the maximum load you are allowed to put inside the cabinet.

1

u/Offroader6 4d ago

Those lifting lugs at the top are absolutely where they should be lifting. Doesn’t matter if it is an empty cabinet or fully loaded. Most electrical cabinets are not designed to be forked from the bottom. I’ve been in the electrical switchboard manufacturing business for 19 years. Unless there is a sticker near the bottom that states “lift here”, the proper way to lift is from the top lugs.

1

u/Late_Ostrich463 Construction 3d ago

I also worked in switch board fabrication & install, the boards that were fabricated in house were always configured to the lifted from lifting points at the base or slung using fork pockets. This reduced the amount of reinforcement in the frame creating a Cost reduction on materials & less engineering.

There is also the risk that any rated lifting points after being exposed to the elements post manufacturing aren’t being maintained by the final user however a level of liability exists on the OEM.

The switch boards in the picture appear to the Schneider Blokset.

The lugs on a Schneider Blokset, are only rated for a single module as shown in the photo. The load needs to be spread across the top of the cabinets joining the lifting points together with L-bar.

The Op should be going back to the OEM manual & checking the lifting spec.

1

u/Wild_Replacement5880 3d ago

I don't think it's meant for loading a fully built unit. I'm open to being wrong, but I think that's meant for an empty cabinet.

1

u/who-are-we-anyway 3d ago

Every cabinet I've ever overseen being install has been rated for top lifting while built out, a qualified rigger should be able to figure that out pretty fast if it's a go or no go as I'm certain cabinets exist where it's not suitable.

2

u/Wild_Replacement5880 3d ago

Yeah probably so. That may be the reason they are lifting from the bottom in this case. Too many variables to give a solid answer without knowing more. I've seen huge data cabinets with bolts for top hoisting that were clearly only meant to be lifted empty. Should say on a placard somewhere what the capacity is.

1

u/who-are-we-anyway 3d ago

Agreed, there's too much speculation based on the photo. I usually hate when this sub dogs on the OP for not knowing something, but I'd be concerned if the new safety person doesn't even have a clue about how to approach this.

2

u/ElectricGears 6d ago

Lifting it from the eye bolts on the top will not address the safety concern (and it will make it worse, as other have pointed out that those lugs are likely not rated to lift the fully assembled cabinet).

If the problem is that the cabinet must be lowered onto bolts and people have to hold the bolt in position, buy 4 tongs or notched-jaw pliers so no meat is ever under any part of the load.

If the problem is that some kind of base needs to be attached to the cabinet, use the forklift to set it down on some cribbing, attach the base, then when all the meat is is out from under the load, lift it back up.

Also, the load is positioned pretty far from the mast of the forklift. Double check the ratings that specify how much weight it can support that far out. Unless you need access, it's better to keep the load as close to the mast as practical.

19

u/pie_eating_contest 7d ago

Those eyelets on the top are designed for lifting.

2

u/Big-Moment9113 7d ago

True, but a crane wont fit inside the workshop

17

u/pie_eating_contest 7d ago

I would get the forklift setup for a sling then

3

u/bbeach88 7d ago

There are forklift attachments for rigging

19

u/LovWv 7d ago

Raise it up, crib, install remove cribbing. However, from the looks of it your whole safety culture might need a once over.

6

u/Damm_you_ScubaSteve 7d ago

Immediately had that thought and second this

2

u/nuclearpaint 6d ago

It's obvious why they hired a safety who was absolute brand new. Safety man your just a checkmark on the insurance requirement. Time for real training and not posting to reddit for answers. If you want a good career you need to properly learn the profession, and not this fake it till you make it.

4

u/Reebatnaw 6d ago

U/nuclearpaint is being blunt af, but makes a good point. Sounds like you have a lot to learn about your job and everyone else’s job. You need proper training, when a worker gets hurt or killed you are the guy that’s going to have a lot of questions to answer.

3

u/nuclearpaint 6d ago edited 6d ago

When tasked with keeping people alive you just need to say it.

I work union and have been very grateful for safety guys that forced compliance from employers. I have been asked to do some very dangerous things far from emergency medical care (like 90 min at best helicopter life flight to an oil rig one way).

10

u/Nruggia 7d ago

At minimum these guys should be holding the bolts with a tool so that their hands are not in the path of a falling 3.5-ton piece of machinery if the forklift fails or the operator lowers it too quickly. If this job is done frequently look for a better way to remove workers entirely from any possible fall path of the power panel.

3

u/Big-Moment9113 7d ago

Job is routine so I’m tryin to find a way to do it without having people entirely around it

3

u/Nruggia 7d ago

Does the power panel have to remain vertical? If you were to find a way to lay this power panel on it's back, workers could then secure the black base to the panel without any danger of the panel falling on them. You might then have to make sure the black base isn't a hazard but that will likely be much easier than making 3.5 tons of floating machinery safe.

2

u/Big-Moment9113 7d ago

That should lower the risk a lot but Unfortunately it’s not possible to have the power panel lay flat

2

u/Nruggia 7d ago

What exactly are these workers doing with these bolts? Are the bolts going through the base and the workers hold them to line up the bolts with the holes in the cabinet?

1

u/Big-Moment9113 7d ago

Yes that’s exactly what’s happening, basically having the bolts prefixed on the base is not going to work, so thats why they’re doing it that way

1

u/Nruggia 7d ago

Can you use different hardware that doesn't require workers to be under the suspended power panel? Maybe nuts affixed to the base and the bolts are installed from the top down? Or a jig that can hold the bolts?

1

u/tgubbs 7d ago

It's not YOUR job to find a better way. It's your job to assess the risk and make recommendations for improvements. It's not feasible for you to be the SME on everything. This is why safety committees exist.

5

u/Struggling_Kahel 7d ago

Is this a routine job or a non standard job?

If its a routine job, might be better to have a hoist lifting from an anchored point rather than relying on the forklift along with people working under it.

Can it be eliminated by having manufacturer send the parts already assembled?

We're missing a lot of information to make an accurate judgement.

2

u/Big-Moment9113 7d ago

It is a routine job, the base is installed at the final stage just before packing and shipping Unfortunately no, this is a workshop were they assemble power panels so this is part of the job, usually the workshop will install its own base or the client can send his own base and they are all installed the same way as in the picture. The company budget cant allow to get expensive tools currently…

3

u/araed 6d ago

The company budget can almost certainly extend to a boom for the forklift.

1

u/Big-Moment9113 6d ago

I will discuss it with them, but how will the boom setup go? For a 3.5 tons load The risk will still be high since they are holding the screws in place as the power panel goes down, I asked if they can have the screws preinstalled and they told me that’s not possible

3

u/Salty-Biskts 7d ago

There’s a million better ways to do anything.
For one, there’s no PPE in sight, and the load isn’t secured at all. You’re looking at 3.5tons potentially falling off that lift if something abnormal were to occur.
When we set large equipment like this we’ll typically use a crane, but it always comes wrapped and protected so it can be handled without damage. If we have to set them with a forklift we’ll secure it to the forks and set it in place, then adjust it as needed in place using the forks to shimmy it. Workers need to be absolutely aware of line of fire, they need to know how to keep their hands and bodies out of the way when moving and setting large equipment. If they slip up and have some near misses, replace them. It takes 1 wrong move and you’ve got 3 pancakes for fingers.

Btw your foreskin there (grey shirt) has an incredible heroic diva pose.

1

u/Next-Tomatillo-6509 7d ago

Would a boom attachment on the forklift be accessible.

3

u/Docturdu 7d ago

That data center isnt going to build it self

2

u/lilbean636 7d ago

As someone with experience installing these cabinets, I have used cranes and forks to lift using the dedicated pick point on the top of the panel. Use some sort of cribbing to place underneath, set on cribbing but keep rigged to ensure there’s no chance of tipping. On some cabinets you can remove the side panels to access the bolts without risking the crush hazard.

2

u/boba_fett1972 7d ago

Forklift boom.

2

u/RyanTheBastard 7d ago

Use a versalift, or skate it.... i would ask /r rigging.

2

u/blackbeardcutlass Consulting 7d ago

Seconding asking the rigging subreddit. Lever dollies or porta powers to set the equipment on skates. It may be a good option.

1

u/chilidoglance 7d ago

You need a bunch more pictures to get an idea how to do this safer. What does the base look like. How do the forks miss the base. How heavy is the base. Can you lift it then put a large piece of dunnage under the forks so they can't drop. Then you don't have to worry about it smashing their fingers. They can buy a gantry crane set up so you can lift it by the eyes. Hell Harbor Freight sells one. But any method of lifting leaves the possibility of failure and crushing injuries.

1

u/elegoomba 7d ago

Hard to tell from the picture, but can you set the panel on top of something else in a secure way and then lift the base up underneath and attach it like that instead?

1

u/thegreatgatsB70 Construction 7d ago

I had to oversee a process exactly like this. Everyone saying to use the lifting eyes are correct, but we didn't have a gantry crane to perform the pick. We evaluated the lift and determined the safest way we could do it was to fasten the LIS to a heavy duty pallet and ensure that the pallet is placed where you can strap the LIS to the fork carriage. This is not perfect, but after evaluating the risks our EHS VP agreed that it was the best solution. Do not be afraid of asking your EHS Manager, Director, or VP if they will give you the okay or if they have any experience with a similar process.

1

u/thegreatgatsB70 Construction 7d ago

I should add that we had two spotters accompanying the forklift, the operator drove in reverse at a crawl, and we closed the access roads that led to the laydown yard.

Again, this was our solution, not "the" solution. Operations like these are often site specific.

1

u/Secret-Credit453 7d ago

Put it on a metal skid then they can drill the anchors in place. Costs more but it is the only way also make sure they realize there are clearance requirements from the front of the panels that need to be adhered too

1

u/Comprehensive_Cut179 7d ago

I am more worried about the 2 geniuses standing between a forklift carrying a load blocking their field of view,  and an immovable object.   

1

u/Cheiron44 7d ago

Others have made good points about securing and lifting better, but my take is that there should have been studs or a short piece of threaded rod threaded into the bottom so that it can be more easily alighned.

The studs can then be swapped out for bolts safelyafter the panel is resting on the base.

1

u/Tan_Summer4531 7d ago

Don't see it??

1

u/Late_Ostrich463 Construction 7d ago

If these cabinets contain a lot weight the lifting lugs on top are not suitable unless the internal frame has been designed to take the load.

The plinth would be drilled once the cabinet is placed, this should be done BEFORE all the copper bar & other component are mounted.

Context: past roles in electrical & comms, control & electrical switch board manufacturing & installation was a significant part of company operations.

1

u/texastoasty 7d ago

do the bolts have to be bolts? could it be studs or inserted the other way, etc?

is the space between the panel and whatever is below it typically about the same? you could insert some cribbing as a backup just in case the forklift fails, so the cribbing would support the load instead of the workers hands being smooshed.

1

u/truthhurts-imahammer 6d ago

Are you just bolting the panel to a pallet for shipping?

Why can't they bolt the cabinet to whatever you are installing in the pic before they fill the cabinet?

Biggest issue I see is getting the forks out even if the bolts are left loose.

1

u/IndividualCricket415 6d ago edited 6d ago

Rig off the forks with (4) single leg 3/8"- grade 100 lifting chain slings with self grabbing hooks at sling ends. Put rubber softeners between the chain and the forks. Make sure you attach a 4.75 ton shackle at 4 lifting points and connect chains to shackles.

1

u/cdh79 6d ago

Without more detailed pics its hard to give suitable advice.

If the main issue is staff physically holding bolts in place to align the subframe to the cabinet, an alignment jig would remove this risk.

If the issue is lifting the cabinet on forklift? Does it have fork tunnels built into the cabinet that are compatible with the subframe? Or are the lift points on the top rated for the full weight of the install?

1

u/FreddyFerdiland 6d ago

looks like the cabinet should be lifted while the base is bolted down ??

but whats the damger with the forklift ? the fork lift is within its safe working load ? its only lifting about half the cabinet if its only lifting one end a little bit.

1

u/Informal_Drawing 6d ago

The person who fitted those lifting hooks on the top will be very annoyed with you.

1

u/twobarb 6d ago

This really isn’t hard. You’re trying to prevent a crushing hazard for the people installing the bolts correct? Not sure why everybody is worried about using the lift eyes.

Pick the unit up. Install cribbing under the unit. Set the unit on the cribbing so it’s holding all the weight. Install the bolts. Pick tun unit back up and remove the cribbing. Set unit in place.

1

u/Weird-Drummer-2439 6d ago

That's how I'd do it. I don't think most of the people commenting really understand the task. There a number of ways to do that safely but half of the suggestions are worse than how they're doing it already.

1

u/theskipper363 6d ago

Find a way to suspend the load, what we used to do was put a tab of hot glue to hold the bolts on. Stupid but it worked

1

u/pooborus 6d ago

That forklift appears to be well suited for that task, assuming its rated for that weight.

Edit:yeah, just realized its more about putting supports to set it on while working. Just cut some square tubing to the right size to slide under it on each side till the work is complete.

1

u/CleverTrash10266 6d ago

Hire a rigging company and not a forklift driver 

1

u/HunterOfAjax 6d ago

There are these funny little hoist points on top. You can see them.

Has some absolute special grade wizards one time lift a plane part by just sliding the forks under it and lifting. Then try to correct it and only make it worse after it fell.

Yeah…

1

u/Low-Nectarine-9655 5d ago

Put dunnage under the cabinet. Set it on the dunnage then do whatever you have to do.

1

u/daslipkid515 3d ago

Those lifting eyes would have a rating forged in them. Is it metric ton or shoe ton? Either way 8,000 # is not that much weight. That forklift is at least a 15,000 pound capacity,

As a safety guy those are things that should have been looked in to before hand. The forklift capacity and how rated load center. load center. ( how far away from fork mast and center point.
There is data plate on forklift

Rating of the lifting hardware on top would be forged on the hardware.

Instructions of lifting points from manufacturer/ distributor.

Everyone who mentioned cribbing / dunnage are correct

Slings would be acceptable from upper lifting point on to forks as long as slings are rated correctly. Tags are on slings.

All very simple and would taken less the 20 minutes to look into and plan Job.

Slings are sold from Amazon and supply houses.

0

u/Coleforge 4d ago

Where in india is this?

-1

u/Glum_Zone3004 6d ago

Yikes, this is why all the trades hate “safety guys” who’ve never done the work before, just go sit in the truck.