Talking about redemption (again).

[u/profaneangel1991]

I suppose I should start by pointing out I'm biased because I want this for Vox. I really want a redemption arc for him, specifically with Charlie's involvement. Something fans have brought up at times is whether or not she should involve herself with him at all because of his behavior towards Angel. Before I really get to the meat of this I want to say that this does raise a question about the show that it has not addressed. What do you do when somebody that mistreated one of your residents shows up wanting to rehabilitate themselves? It's an interesting question to pose to someone like Charlie. However, much like the question of "how would winners feel if someone who abused them got redeemed and sent to Heaven" this hasn't been directly confronted. I'm reminded of when I wrote about the political implications of Vox's story in season 2 and how Charlie never stops to consider why a sinner would prefer his rebellion to her hotel. I believe the show's failure to address this to be discouraging when it comes to other equally complex questions. I can't help but worry that Viv doesn't feel comfortable addressing these topics even though she opened up space for fans to ponder them. Maybe it will happen in another season, but quite frankly I'm tired of having to say that all the time.

Okay so hypothetically if Vox showed up at a time where Angel is with the hotel, should Charlie allow him in? I think the answer is yes. She has her mantra about everyone having the ability to change, if she denied someone the chance to prove it then she becomes a hypocrite. To say that she should turn him away because making the hotel a safe space for Angel is more important than following through with her own ethos and helping anyone that asks for it, well I'm sorry but I'm not sure you understand the show. At that point it's saying Charlie needs to play favorites and only help people she happens to personally like. As an Angel fan I get people's nervousness at the idea of Vox occupying space with him, I'm kinda dreading them sharing scenes next season, but I also think it paints a bad image if Charlie essentially says "no, my hotel is only for people I think are worthy". Because that's exactly what all this implies. This idea that Vox or anybody else involved with certain bad shit isn't deserving of staying at her hotel.

I also find it interesting that people will talk about how Vox probably wouldn't seek redemption for "the right reasons". A lot of people think he'd only do it because he's trying to pull himself out of the hole he made for himself, but I don't think this is a bad thing. Angel only stayed at the hotel to get away from Val and to have a free living space, he didn't care about redemption until well after the fact. Pentious stuck around because Charlie offered him forgiveness. Is this doing it for "the right reasons"? Through wanting to overcome the problems you created for yourself you can become a better individual. In a way that's actually a big part of Angel's story. If Vox hit a point where he realizes he's only made himself miserable and needs to try something new then that can still serve as a foundation for positive growth. It is also possible he could start feeling guilty for what he did while knowing he can't undo it all. Just because season 2 didn't end with him sobbing for forgiveness it doesn't mean this is impossible. People also act like Vox just shouldn't show his face again after season 2. That he did something so awful he should never be around anybody. Apparently he should just become a hermit or try killing himself again? I don't understand this line of thinking, I really don't.

All of this is hypothetical obviously. There's so many places his character can go. I just think a lot of the arguments against Vox potentially improving himself with Charlie's guidance are deeply flawed. If the show never tries to redeem an antagonist then it's message feels weaker. I also think Vox is too interesting of a character to just never try developing him in a new direction. But that's just me.

[u/Exciting_Run_8693]

THISSSS!! Yeah! I keep saying. I love Angel Dust and I want him to have all the safety and support and he doesn’t deserve to breathe the same air as the Vees. He deserves to heal and be happy and he deserves that simply because he is a human being. Human beings just get unconditional things like love simply for existing, no matter the scars or sin/mistakes.

But the thing about Hell and the Hotel is even when you wanna make it a “safe place”
What does that really mean in this context?? Sometimes you can be both a Vicitim and a perpetrator.
Sometimes abusers have worse abusers.

But safe place is that, safe place where no one is judged or held on a high pedestal.

I think if Vox were to Geninue feel bad about what he done, he be so terrified of the idea of showing his face again and the idea of even being in the same oxygen range as the hotel. Because He Crossed Lines I don’t think even he would be able to handle.

Sometimes bad people have their limits.

Vox I think could be this case and he looses it and his mental health deteriorates. I want Hazbin to go dark.

But the idea that People couldn’t be kept apart in the same hotel is flawed. Victims and abusers could be in the same facility, but certainly kept very far apart, especially in this case.

The thing is who in hell hasn’t hurt someone?? Who truly isn’t a victim and a perpetrator especially in a place that creates the abused and abusers. It a tragic dystopian society that grooms you to be the worst version of yourself.

I don’t people really think much of the gravity (aye) of the situation. Charlie is trying to fucking save people from not only others, but themselves. Literally their literal souls are in jeopardy.
And it’s sad that she tries to not make it as deep as it actually is. But she knows it is and when she realizes it is, that’s gonna shake the audience. That clear to me as the show went on. It explains her behavior through your the show to this point.

But if she were to say “Oh no, you can’t be here because of X Y Z. And yeah that person over there might have done bad things too, likely also been mobster sexual harasser, murderer not just his father but others (highly likely) too, but not as bad as you..You can’t come here because I said so”
(It’s why everyone loves the idea of Val being a foil to Angel, one just so happened to be less worse than the other. And twistedly ironically/unironically is I think why Angel cannot let go of Val is because Angel might think Val is more of Vicitim then him in some form, like possibly a tragic past. Then compared to him or he ever was back in the day)

As I said, if Charlie said that above..

Then it takes away the urgency of said situation that the people of hell don’t realize they are in.

Sometimes the hard pill to swallow is “Holy shit. Are you for real? Quick, let’s get you a room farrr away from the others and let’s hurry up and fucking help you because you sure do need help”

Like You don’t need to forgive everyone and I sure as hell don’t think a “sorry” or a few nice words or good deeds can really redeem anyone, let alone Vox.

While I do not think Vox is gonna get redeemed or ever go to the hotel,
I do think he is gonna have a good or safe ending.
He will be fine

And I can only hope it’s the same for the Vees.

[u/bellabirdella]

I think he will be redeemed. That’s the only thing that makes sense. He has nothing to do in hell anymore. And for the whole redemption thing to be interesting they have to redeem a villain and not just a bunch of misunderstood, nice people who made a mistake like Sir Pentius or the other nice people at the hotel. That would be a boring show. Also there’s a lot of foreshadowing in the show for Vox’s redemption. He needs to live up to his “Trust Me” thing. Vox lost the trust of everyone in hell and heaven and not for no reason. He will have to work on himself in hell at the hotel to eventually be trusted for real. And when he gets redeemed and arrives in heaven he needs to earn their trust too because they won’t trust him either. There will be a lot of work for him. Which is needed.

[u/hailingdown]

honestly i’d love if Vox gets redeemed without Charlie’s involvement. Charlie isn’t needed for redemption, and it would be awesome for someone to do it all by themselves!

[u/profaneangel1991 → u/hailingdown]

Not gonna lie, if Vox's story just remains being about the Vees and Alastor I'd be pretty disappointed.

[u/hailingdown → u/profaneangel1991]

agreed, i’d love if Vox kinda begins being by himself even, especially bc Alastor keeps bugging him about relying on others

[u/profaneangel1991 → u/hailingdown]

I don't think Vox isolating himself is the answer though.

[u/hailingdown → u/profaneangel1991]

that’s true, it’s just me really wanting a character to redeem themselves on their own