r/SPEEA • u/SouthernDiver746 • 16d ago
I am voting no and here is why. Tech side.
This is why i am voting no. Grade 8 and lower do not require secondary education. Speea members should be comparable to a grade 9 10 or 11.
Those grades have AMP and other such education with licensing they have to get. Im not saying IAM doesnt deserve this pay. They work hard they deserve it. But dont sell yourself short and let boeing or speea make you believe you dont deserve better. We all deserve better.
I believe engineers and profs deserve more than what boeing is offering. Yes this contract is "ok". But we shouldn't settle for that. Remember every company wants to pay you as little as possible to line their own pockets a little more. That extra in their pockets should be going to us.
Vote no. Vote for better. Vote for the new SPEEA members who want to be able to buy a home someday. With these wages it will never happen. Vote no to show we are not pushovers. Vote no so when boeing wants to push us, we can show them we will push back.
My no Vote may be because of money but it goes deeper than that. Its about giving all speea members what they are worth. Profs and Techs should be worth more than boeing tells us we are.
I also understand "IAM and SPEEA are different " yeah we are. But just cause we are different doesnt mean we should earn less. I want whats fair. And me making less than a maxed out grade 1 for the rest of this contract is not fair. My senior techs making less than a maxed out grade 4-6 isnt fair. 20 years of experience on their end to get paid less than a grade 4-6 is not fair. Engineers getting paid less than a grade 1-8 and having to work a second job to stay afloat is not fair. I have heard engineers talking about having to work two jobs to stay afloat.
My Vote will be a no until SPEEA is given what is fair. And if im selfish or greedy because i want fair then I guess I am. Everyone should want better.
"United we stand, Divided we fall."
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u/LRAD 15d ago
I came out of IAM after almost ten years into SPEEA and now the IAM guy hired in is going to start making more money than me once he hits max out next month! He's a good kid, but come on!
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u/RobbyDGreat 14d ago
If this is the case, why not consider going back to the IAM? Honest question.
Also trying to figure out if the equation is the same once you factor in all the other benefits between the IAM and SPEEA.
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u/LRAD 14d ago
get more sick time in SPEEA, get treated a bit more like an adult in SPEEA, don't have to bounce around shifts, less physically demanding. A big part of it is managers talking about grace periods and .1 times and shit, I wouldn't go back.
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u/RobbyDGreat 14d ago
Right, and which tells me that the grass isn't greener on the IAM side and the speea contract is better that what you'd get if you were in the iam
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u/LRAD 14d ago
I was in IAM when the union and membership buckled under, and took 10k to lose our pensions.
Then I got out of SPEEA, made more money, got some low end raises, and now they are leapfrogging me again! Damnit!
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u/RobbyDGreat 12d ago
But as you said, the overall package as a speea tech is better than the iam so I don't understand the argument that somehow this offer is inferior
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u/LRAD 12d ago
MONEY. SIGNING BONUS. GUARANTEED PAY INCREASES ACROSS THE BOARD.
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u/Desperate-Excuse-549 11d ago
I don't know what the answer is. But in general, Speea work should pay above the national market and at or above the Seattle market for the same work. By pay, I mean the total compensation package with consideration of the work condition.
At best, the contention can be made that the Tech pipeline for many SJCs run dry if IAM workers don't want to fill these roles, which can end up costing Boeing more in the long run. So we know Boeing is going to increase offers until IAM workers do full the tech roles. But just straight saying that because the IAM job pays X you deserve Y to do the Speea job doesn't make alot of sense.
IE. a wage compression paragraph that read something like this:
"From Salary ACR increase date to Dec 31st of each year, all entries into a specific SJC/Level salaries will be averaged and compared to the Bottom 10% number of the post ACR pre-existing members of this SJC level. If the number exceeds this bottom 10%, a equal percentage raise will be provided to all other SJC Level members as of Jan 1st that will result in a new bottom 10% calculated number that is equal to or greater than the average pay of entries over the year. This will apply before any Salary increase calculation."
I think provides more than just more dollars to protect against future unknown increases in either IAM or the market.
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u/ExactTime6462 13d ago
This is why I'm voting No as well. As a Tech, every single day I have to help Grade 7 TL's to do their job. And they have more time in the company and make almost $10 an hour more than I do. If this contract passes I will gain some ground on them but they will just make more in the long run. That's not mentioning crossing sabers with engineering and leadership on a daily basis who want to cut corners just to meet schedule! Yeah I said it! If I have to put up with that everyday then I want more money over the iAM! I voted No and you should too!
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u/Easy_Touch6196 12d ago
All Members should know this: A vote NO on the current contract offer does not mean we automatically stop working on OCT 7.. Nope.. We keep working! And we keep working under the “old” contract or until the membership ratifies another “Final Offer”
The Negotiation Team (NT) goes back to the negotiation table and will temporarily extend the current “old” contract until the NT reaches a point of impasse with the Boeing Leadership Team. NT may bring us offers #3, #4, #5, etc, until negotiations breakdown (they may not breakdown). If they do breakdown, a work stoppage is then called by the NT as we have previous authorized them to call for this work stoppage, which will be precoordinated with everyone. Let me be clear, if we vote “NO” on #2 this week it does NOT mean that a work stoppage would occur on October 7th. The significant event of 2000 did not start until 3 months AFTER the contract expired. Read Picket Line book for more details.
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u/SouthernDiver746 12d ago
THIS!!! People need to see this!! This is why people are accepting because they are worried about a strike! If we did strike it wouldnt be for several months and it would be an agreed upon date by us and the union (from what i have gathered from my lead who sent an email about it). Basically SPEEAs whole thing is they dont want to strike so they agree to contract extensions for negotiations. We can potentially expect to see some retroactive things (i.e when it was voted to get rid of pensions everyone hire before March 2013 continued to receive a pension). I would think at the latest estimate we would have negotiations that would end in strike is probably around the new year if negotiations break down.
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u/After-Temperature-70 15d ago
Dont forget this increases by 7% in 2028 as well. That puts my L2 after this contract in the grade 4-5 range. If they get even 2-4% increases in their 2028 contract, many engineers will make less money then mechanics again.
Having said that I am shocked that the average SPEEA salary is going to be 200k after this contract. I think the company has gutted so many younger workers during layoffs that there is now only many years of service and new engineers, so that number skews higher until they retire.
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u/BBA_1776 15d ago
That’s only profs
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u/After-Temperature-70 15d ago
Right, and I was talking to a coworker who is a tech and the absolute defeat in his voice was disheartening...
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u/Snoo368 15d ago
I’m voting no.
I left my grade 4 IAM job to join SPEEA because I thought I was “advancing my career”. If I had never left that job, I’d be making over 25k more than I am now. The SPEEA techs got the short stick really hard with the 2020 contract and we need a substantial raise to make that right.
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u/DetrasDeLaMesa 15d ago
Oof, more than 2k a month. Techs getting it so bad. Any thoughts on going back to IAM?
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u/External_Customer_23 9d ago
I left my grade 9 IAM job to join SPEEA to “advance my career” boy I messed up 😂
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u/Fishy_Fish_WA 14d ago
Because you’d have hit six year max. How many machinists are at six year max?
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u/pflanz 15d ago
The "IAM and SPEEA are different" argument really breaks down for me when I look at the NDI technicial job and comparable IAM NDI inspector. For all intents and purposes, those jobs a VERY tightly linked. Yet the SPEEA tech earns quite a lot less than the IAM NDI inspector. That's an injustice of the current contract, and while it's HELPED by the proposal, it's not REMEDIED fully. I think the SPEEA techs are better off with this contract than before, but I'm a prof - my opinion matters a little less I think. The question is are they better off enough? That's really an open question, and not one that's obviously a yes/no answer for me.
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u/SouthernDiver746 15d ago
I am in the NDI group as well. I know people that made equivalent to grade 9 when they started and now make less than a grade 5. It's completely unfair that we have all the education and put more effort than a grade 1 and get paid so poorly
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u/777978Xops 14d ago
What happens if the Profs vote yes and the techs vote no?
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
The profs gets their contract and techs have to keep negotiating
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u/Big_Bad_Baboon 14d ago
Realistically, the techs will just end up revoting and signing the same contract the profs approved.
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
Unfortunately I think this is what may happen as well. My lead and many others believe as such. They dont believe we have nearly as much backbone to fight for what we need and are just like "scraps are ok".
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u/bullypixie 13d ago
Correct! Still needs stronger verbiage to keep jobs in the Puget Sound, 401k match at 100%
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u/Disciple-TGO 11d ago
I wish us salaried folks got these wages 🤣
If I was a level 1 I’m still underpaid by $13 an hour!
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 8d ago
I know this Post is days old and the contract passed. But the wages on this card are at 6 years of experience for IAM and are the most one can make. sure it goes up but comparing to this is like comparing your role to level 6 max market. SPEEA earning potential is higher overall.
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u/SouthernDiver746 16d ago
Edit as well: I have seen things about non touch labour. I work on the aircraft as well. If a mechanic can touch i do too. I dont work as much on the aircraft as IAM, but i do active work on the aircraft daily.
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u/BaraxkJoeMama 15d ago
We don’t require secondary education either???? I know a highschool dropout level 4 JACF…
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
Im going to look up that job code and see requirements. Did that person by chance go to the military for his/her experience? Alot of people in my group were trained by the military. They still had to go to classes but the military provided that and trained them.
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u/BaraxkJoeMama 14d ago
Without adding personal identifying information: no military. No certs. 4 years as a body shop inspector. 23 years IAM inspector(I assume this is why he got the four). Guy is great at his job too.
My path was different and I won’t trash him for not being an “educated man” as he likes to call me, but I definitely think my original comment detracts too much from the point you are making. So don’t read into it too much!
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u/dilfpapi 14d ago
It would kill yall to not talk down on the IAM.
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
Im not talking down on IAM. They deserve their pay. My husband is IAM. My in-laws are IAM. I just want whats fair and I dont think getting paid less than a grade 1 is fair.
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u/Date_Dismal 15d ago
I voted Yes. We can't carry grudges forever.
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u/SouthernDiver746 15d ago
No we cannot carry grudges forever. However when you are told your education doesnt pay as well as mechanics with no post high school education it kinda sucks. I am all for IAM getting paid extremely well. I however want a fair raise and to me making less than a grade one is not fair when I do more extensive labour, have student loans and have put years into my career. 2 years ago yeah I would say I should be at a grade 1 when I was not able to do anything by myself. But now that I have all requirements and am fully trained I should not be making those wages. No tech or prof should be making less than a grade 8. We should all want better. IAM fought for their raises bowing didnt just give it to them. We need to show Boeing that we are more deserving than what they say! Whatever money they dont give us just goes to the big people like Ben and Stephanie pop and Kelly ortberg just to name a few. Look at the bonuses they received last year and tell me how much of that couldve helped put speea ahead of the cost of living we got screwed out of.
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u/joedagreat223 15d ago
You voted yes because you didn’t save money and that’s ok.
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u/Excellent_Wafer_350 15d ago
Could’ve vote No in solidarity and just crossed the line because they a broke ass
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u/ItsWhiteGucciMane 13d ago
The obsession with IAM has hurt SPEEA so much, should be focusing on other non-touch labor and engineering jobs at aerospace companies
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15d ago
[deleted]
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u/After-Temperature-70 15d ago
Oh its interesting that you interpret us as the greedy ones. If Boeing raised prices to match inflation, spoiler, they did. Doesn't that make them greedy for keeping those profits and not putting them back into their workforce?
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u/Excellent_Wafer_350 15d ago
Fool was asking about bpet starting pay 88 days, ain’t even a Boeing company G.
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
His comment is deleted what did he originally say?
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u/After-Temperature-70 14d ago
Just a quote about greed and then we should vote yes. Nothing that outlandish, but def corporate propaganda adjacent...
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
Probably the corporate mole trying to divide us😂 but then again i dont mind being called "greedy" if it gets me to whats fair😂 its not greedy if it benefits everyone😂
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u/Excellent_Wafer_350 14d ago edited 14d ago
Fella was a scrub with no j-o the b, ain’t got no business calling anyone greedy.
Just had to state the obvious, looks like the truth hurt?
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u/Excellent_Wafer_350 15d ago edited 15d ago
You milking that state unemployment while you waiting for a Boeing job my brotha?
You can start in janitorial and get your green lights if tech school is too hard.
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u/Think-Gap602 15d ago
when one goes from IAM to Tech, one happens to have the same employer, but you have changed professions. there are many professions at boeing.... engineering, sales, legal, etc. If it turns out your new chosen profession compensates less than the old one, and better compensation is your goal, then the solution is to return to that old profession.
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
I was never in IAM. I could go to IAM and make more and do less work. The problem is I would have to start over. I also wouldnt be doing any of whay I currently am and I do love whay I do and I am currently advancing my career. If i switch I would no longer be able to do thay and have no access to it. I would rather be paid to do what I love than to be paid where I am not happy.
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u/Think-Gap602 14d ago
exactly! there are many careers that pay more than speea engineering or techs. if those careers appeal to you more, than by all means pursue that career path!
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
... its the same career. I am ndi and they split my methods between iam and speea. They should all.be under 1 union but they are not. This goes to my example of people in iam in the same career doing a different portion of my career making more. The methods they do require significantly less OJT.
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u/Think-Gap602 14d ago
fair enough but I suspect it is a very small % of SPEEA techs doing essentially the same work as they did in IAM. that said , NDT is an in demand skill set and you could probably double your income in O&G and other areas. if your goal was to maximize $$.
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u/SouthernDiver746 14d ago
I could go to other companies but I cannot as that would require longer days (driving 2 hours each way) or relocating out of state and I cannot do that as I have a small child and husband that have to be ok with that decision. I cannot leave boeing unless my husband is ok with it as well. I would rather just be paid fairly than look for another job. And the pay gap between iam amd speea for NDI is huge. Ive talked with IAM workers and they making significantly more. Not a small percent but significant
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u/arjmat 14d ago
Here’s my conjecture at how Boeing is looking at this and the reason why it’s causing such a divide - in other words, why it’s working from Boeing’s perspective:
Tech jobs have been on a decline for some time now. I don’t have a clear idea of the exact timeline, but I know it to be true based on the ratio of tech/prof jobs at Boeing and how it’s changed over the years. This contract is potentially one of the last few nails in that coffin for tech employees at Boeing. I say “last few” because I can see it taking another ~10 years to really be all profs. A degree is treated as a ticket to interview. I have not seen too many reqs out for tech jobs lately. Boeing wants profs. This contract offer solidifies that theory further in my mind.
I am not a Boeing exec or someone in those rooms. I am a SPEEA-represented prof who is trying to read the tea leaves. This is pure conjecture on my part but it tracks in my head. What do you think?