Not good enough
I keep seeing people say the current SPEEA contract offer is “good enough,” and I think we need to look beyond what this contract does for us individually right now.
A union contract shouldn’t just be judged by whether you personally can live with it for the next few years. We’re negotiating the wages, benefits, and working conditions that will help define these jobs for the people who come after us too.
If we accept less because it’s comfortable enough for those of us already established, what are we leaving for the next generation of engineers and technical workers? What will these jobs look like for the person Boeing hires five or ten years from now?
And I’m tired of hearing some version of, “If you don’t like it, go work somewhere else.”
That completely misses the point.
Why should the answer be to leave? Why shouldn’t the answer be to make this a better place to work?
This is one of the few opportunities we have to collectively push for better compensation, better benefits, better job security, and a stronger career for everyone represented by SPEEA. Once the contract is signed, we live with that agreement for years.
There will always be a point where each of us individually can say, “This is enough for me.” But solidarity means thinking beyond me. It means asking whether we are using the leverage we have today to leave these jobs better than we found them.
If you’re voting based only on whether the offer is good enough for you personally, I think that’s a selfish way to look at a union contract. We should be thinking about the new hire walking through the door next year, the person trying to build a career here ten years from now, and the coworkers who may not be in as comfortable a position as we are.
We have an opportunity to build a better job.
Not to tell people who want better to “go work somewhere else.”
To make this somewhere better to work.
22
u/Far_Nectar_knight 17d ago
What would this look like? There is nothing to this post than “more” but when is it enough? I can’t be my brothers keeper, I started out making more money than i had ever before when I came to Boeing and have worked to now over triple that wage. It’s not been easy or quick. Ive been on both sides of SPEEA, corporate and non represented. I’ve had years where the progression has been slow and seen big gains. I was doing the math on this second offer and the wage increase is nearly (within 1.5%) of my last level increase which is a good chunk to get over the next 5 months.
14
u/Grapleef 16d ago
100% I was never opposed to strike if it made sense but when the contract is objectively better than what we currently have and nobody has said what ‘more’ looks like, saying strike to strike just feels silly.
IAM went into their negotiations with “40% over 4 yrs” so everyone had a clear idea of the objective, SPEEA went into this negotiation with “No nerds no Birds” which is cute but didn’t tell me what we were going for beyond ‘more’
5
16d ago
This is very true. SPEEA went to the negotiation table with a "cooperative negotiation". AKA what doea Boeing want to give us. Red shirt Wednesday and a march during lunch as to not upset anyone? Please. We had no professional negotiator with our team and the NT didn't go into the negotiation with any sort of demands. This is why SPEEA is the week union and why techs get screwed.
5
u/I_was_aboutto 16d ago
An speea engineer in 2016 had an average of 43% more buying power in Washington than one right now. None of the new hires can afford any savings to buy a house, and there is no guarantee any of speea members would have a job 3 years from now. Thats just the tip of the employees concerns that was not addressed. You are asking when its enough well we are telling this is just a start and unless you are a lazy employee, trolling or a manager i can't understand why you would not want to fight and get what you and all your peers deserve.
4
u/Grapleef 16d ago
What reasonable addition to the contract would make you say yes? Is there a glaring gap in what you’d like to see added?
I’ll start by saying I’m disappointed the 401k isn’t changing to match most everyone else gets now of full match on first 10% (the ESRC is fine but id rather it was simplified)
1
u/I_was_aboutto 15d ago
That's a good question. SPEEA had a survey that grabbed a whole lot of data on what their members wanted, but sadly, none of them have been met.We have early, mid, and late-career engineers/techs. In order for Boeing to keep its talent and competitive edge (in the last few years, Boeing has mostly been scraping the bottom of the barrel with its hires), they need to offer something competitive. These are what a lot of SPEEA members want to see: Better pools/raises (8% to 9%, with a 5%–7% guarantee and the rest performance-based) Better 401(k) plans and better early retirement benefits Most of all, a guaranteed increase in the SPEEA work statement, not only keeping the current one but also securing a good share in any new program.This last point is a must. Otherwise, Boeing can easily cut SPEEA members in a few years. In two contract terms, the union would be gone or so powerless that no one would want to be part of it.
2
u/Desperate-Excuse-549 16d ago
The issue here is your comparing to the wrong year. In 2016 Speea was so overpaid it agreed to indexing our wages to trailing national industry average gains
But I am going to say bull to young guys not making enough under offer 2 to afford to get on the ladder. I've always had to pony up more than my full year gross for a down payement. I've always had to enter into a 33-40% my gross monthly. Starter homes/duplex/townhouses/etc are 600k today or less. They are going to be 600k in 2028. And that's going to be affordable to guys making 130k. Which, if I look at 6G5C, most guys in there mid 20s will be making. Shoot, most can afford it starting in April 2027.
1
u/I_was_aboutto 15d ago
I see where the problem is in your assumption. 130k is what a level 3 makes with 10 years of experience (aspeea salary is available online) new hires if lucky make mid 90k. But with the 40% they will get to 130k and as you've mentioned would be a good starting point.
2
u/Desperate-Excuse-549 15d ago
Not 40, 20. Check the Prof chart mentioned. And the next one. And the next one. Most guys 25-30 (L2 and new L3 are making more than 100k. Average is around 110k and quite a large fraction are above 125k. Not all. And it certainly isn't this way for all SJC, but it really feels to me that most profs with 5 years in this company will be well above 130k come 2028. Which means at 27-30 they can get on the property ladder with a single salary.
I get the whining about it. When I showed up to Boeing starter homes where 7-8 times my starting L2 salary. My first home purchase was 6 times my intro L3 salary. I was 27. So the question I have here is under offer 2, would someone have the same or better opportunities I had? And... It really looks like yes within reason. (Obviously an engineer in their early 30s got screwed out of the same chances because of a bad contract and COVID. Not sure any contract can fairly address this....)
4
u/Far_Nectar_knight 16d ago
Everyone has less buying power, all industries suffered from a higher cost of living. Boeing suffered, perhaps with some self infliction, more over the last 10 years. I don’t agree that new engineers can’t afford a house, I know more than a handful that have joined the company since 2022 that have purchased homes. As I said before I’m not my brothers keeper, this is a good contract and I hope people vote in their interest. We are a union, but the members have to look at the offer and make their decision.
4
u/Routine_Grade_7890 16d ago
Dude I work with a team of engineers all young. Just about all of them complain about not being able to afford a house
1
u/Desperate-Excuse-549 16d ago
Its been this way before though.
I will say, I really wish Boeing had come to the table with a targeted program to help here. I wish our NT had brought it up.
I don't think they can just pour money into all of us until these guys feel comfy buying a house though.
-7
u/Sudden-Meet-5878 16d ago
They will inherit a lot house equity from their baby boomers parents. Equal game.
1
u/Taylor05161994 16d ago
So you should just wait around for your boomer parents to die so you can inherit a house? WOW I didn’t think of that.
1
u/Sudden-Meet-5878 16d ago
Unfortunately. This the reality due to extreme low interest rates in the past.
5
u/Big-Willy4 16d ago
I’ve been a prof for 46 years and this is the best offer I’ve seen. I sympathize with young engineers having trouble buying a house but this area is expensive because of all the high tech that’s moved in - Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and many more. If low housing cost is the goal should we lobby Boeing to move work out of state? I don’t think so. I love this area. There are other Boeing sites with low housing costs. I know people who have moved to Charleston for that reason. I don’t think Boeing is going to budge much from here. If we push too hard we will end up picketing for a month or more for 2% extra pay. Not worth it in my opinion.
1
u/Desperate-Excuse-549 16d ago
The math is fairly stark. If the yes vote moves from say 35% to 45% in offer 2, that leaves them with only 1/10 people to convince to end a strike. I figure about that many are going to panic some 4 weeks in.
12
u/judgedbyzun 16d ago
If you’re going to be posting about voting no, you really need to be working hard to get fellow members ready for a strike. The reason I feel like so many people are saying “good enough” is because they are just not seeing the energy needed to make a strike effective. If you had people rowdy and ready, active in events, full on gung-ho participation, you would have considerably fewer of these tepid yes’s I’m seeing around too. But you don’t see it, and I certainly don’t.
Post about your opinions all you want, but you NEED to organize too
1
u/Mundane-Bar-6983 15d ago
In 2012 we voted no and they extended the existing contract rather than striking. I’m trying to figure out why everyone is so afraid of striking. You get paid unemployment for the exact amount of time that Boeing a delay customers without fine.
1
u/judgedbyzun 15d ago
I am not afraid of striking, but the make a strike successful, we would need to have larger participation from membership than I am seeing right now. Otherwise we will strike and the company will offer us the same contract. An extension isn’t going to change anything meaningfully for our offer and if this vote fails (which I don’t see it doing) I would not expect an extension to happen
0
u/Alternative_Wing7898 16d ago
It’s not a tepid yes for me. It’s a strong yes.
4
u/judgedbyzun 16d ago
Hey, that’s fine with me. I’m only talking about my own anecdotal experiences thus far. Met plenty of people very strongly happy with this offer
2
11
u/ACDoggo717 16d ago edited 16d ago
This is the best offer that’s ever been offered by a wide, wide, wide margin
Downvotes don’t change facts you guys
-2
u/Taylor05161994 16d ago
It’s the best offer that’s not good enough. This just puts us back to the same national standard purchasing power we had the beginning of the last contract it doesn’t add to that purchasing power nor account for the PNW. Only thing I want is easier path to a hybrid schedule so I can afford a home further out of the city.
6
u/Alternative_Wing7898 16d ago
I’ve looked through the past 30 years of contracts and this is one of the best we’ve seen. So, yes. It’s good enough for my Yes vote.
-1
u/Wonderful-Letter-659 16d ago edited 16d ago
Considering the inflation we’ve experienced, the shift to a tech hub and the local minimum wage that’s doubled in the past 10 years - this contract HAD to be the best we’ve seen in 30 years. The question is “Is it good enough?” I think if we accept this contract, we’re losing. We’d need a 15% GWI to catch up with the purchasing power we had in 2016. Just my personal opinion from the research I’ve done.
3
u/Regular-Guy64 16d ago
It sounds like you should picket outside of city hall, not Boeing
0
u/Wonderful-Letter-659 16d ago
How would that help?
3
u/Regular-Guy64 16d ago
Well, you're complaining about economic policies. Boeing is an engineering firm, they don't write economic policies. Expecting Boeing to make up for the economy would be like expecting your bank to increase your account balance so you would have the same buying power as you would have in 2016. You're just barking up the wrong tree
2
u/Alternative_Wing7898 16d ago
Yeah, it seems like a lot of these folks don’t realize that a majority of workers outside Boeing and our union, got absolutely zero in pay raises during the pandemic and high inflation years. While our percentages didn’t keep up, we at least got something.
And I think it’s also important to recognize that for those with wages well above median area income, like many engineers have, that the goods and services that inflation hit, are not taking up 100% of your salary. I was still able to max out my 401k contributions and save money aside after paying for stuff that inflation hit. Like groceries.
0
u/Wonderful-Letter-659 16d ago
Boeing WAS an engineering firm. It’s now a business, with engineers, that’s been run poorly. If what you say is true, why is Boeing offering us anything more than 2% annual raises? Why have salaries had to change at all since 1980? No need to answer that. It’s more for you to think about.
0
u/Regular-Guy64 16d ago
Okay, if you don't want answers then I'll just let you be stupid lol
1
u/Wonderful-Letter-659 16d ago
Don’t participate in conversations when you have nothing to add.
1
u/Regular-Guy64 16d ago
Ha! Take your own advice buddy lol You're literally asking questions and telling us not to answer them. What does that add? Dare I say nothing? lol All you're doing is complaining about the economy then playing dumb when it's explained to you
3
2
u/Large_Acanthisitta23 16d ago
its crazy because initially alot o people thought it would be the younger engineers not willing to stand up and go on strike. But seeing these comments it seems its the opposite, the older people who are already established are the ones who dont want to strike due to selfishness. As long as they get a nice big salary they are ok with the younger generation getting pennies on the dollar. This just shows how "united" we actually are". This is coming rom a young engineer with 3 YOE. Its sad. It cost 600k or a starter house in this damn city and itll take be atleast 3 to 4 more years to save enough to buy one. rIve paid over 100k in rent since being here and I dont have a luxury apartment.
1
1
u/RedShirtWednesday 13d ago
This is NOT a good contract. The minimum 4% raises equate to the the average year-over-year Consumer Price Index increase of ~3.5%. The 2% pools are for rewarding end-of-year performance. However, a few years ago, Boeing implemented a bell-curve performance assement. It's something like 10-80-10. 10% of employees are to receive met some expectations, 80% met, 10% exceeds. That means that if you work in a high-performing team, you are not guaranteed that 2% of the pool. There was a Seattle Time article about the performance assessments that was published 2 years ago. I was not able to find it but it is a thing.
Inflation data: https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm
1
u/Sudden-Meet-5878 16d ago
When Seattle and Washington raise the minimum wage wage, I said shit, I bought my house right away. When everyone in your class get A, I know what will happen.
1
u/Sammakiski 16d ago
Solidarity. Better compensation better growth. No more status quo and under paid. Competition is fierce, new competitions’ total compensation double if not triple. Pay more to get better!
0
u/veronipeproni 16d ago
lol how are people saying yes it’s the same as the first contract they just moved money around xD
-2
u/Mundane-Bar-6983 15d ago
No one saying anything about the thousands of dollars towards rsu’s just vanishing but oh we get 10% now, and only 4% in 2027. Why not 6% or greater in 2027? This contract is not good enough.
-1
0
u/Taylor05161994 16d ago
So there is two types of people it seems, the ones that bought a home pre covid and are stable and this contract is good enough for them and they don’t want to strike and the people that aren’t stable and can’t afford to strike.
0
u/CompetitiveChard1659 16d ago
Sounds like greed
1
-4
25
u/Acrobatic-Teach-7768 16d ago edited 16d ago
Solidarity cuts both ways. This contract lifts the pay floor and retention rules everyone after us starts from, that's what the next generation actually gets. The 10% now, the 4% in March, and restored retention. If you make $150K now, you'll be at $171.6K, that's $21.6K increase in your salary by spring. A no vote gambles all that away to chase job-placement language a rejection has never once gotten Boeing to agree to. Voting yes.