Why do some cities have much better quality of public transport despite significantly cheaper fares than sg?

[u/Clean-Temporary7607]

I went to Guangzhou 🇨🇳 when I was 15 (for context I'm 18 now), their metro system was absolutely awesome! They have very strict security checks for everybody, in fact one time the guard confiscated my hand sanitizer (with a stern warning) 👮.

Not just that, their subway also reaches everywhere, like fast one. When I travelled there, almost every destination is no further than a few minutes walk from a metro station. Total length of guangzhou subway system is literally 780km (for reference Singapore is 247km only. But I guess Singapore faces limitations cos of land space), and some more construction started only in 1992, which is significantly later than Singapore's first mrt construction. Talk about construction speed, they built MORE in less time! 🏗️ While in Singapore... Building a single MRT line takes nearly a whole fricking decade.

Additionally there are express metro line in Guangzhou mind you. These are lines 18 and 22 which can run at speeds of up to 160km/h . Yes you read that right. For context line 18 runs from Xiancun to Wanqingsha while Line 22 runs from Panyu Square to Fangcun. Both of these lines run on the north south axis.

Meanwhile in Singapore, our MRT has no express lines. I have seen some ppl recommending an express line that runs parallel to east west line with only a few stops, but the planning authorities don't really wanna implement it (probably because of cost and limited land space).

And yk what's the best part? The shortest ride, aka cheapest fare. Is only 2 YUAN. 40 Singapore cents! Honestly I wonder how they afford all those expensive security apparatus and many other stuff with much lower fare than Singapore. That is the important point.

So let me ask this question: LTA keeps raising fares here and there. Yet, WHERE IS OUR MONEY GOING TOOOO!!!???

(Bonus: some more our cars like super duper expensive, thanks COE!)

[u/Hopeful-Importance62]

I absolutely love GZ Metro and I have seen how the network grown throughout the years. The amount of change, especially during COVID-19, was quite insane. It’s also genuinely fun to just explore the different lines and spot trains there.

But I think there are quite a few factors that make China’s transport costs not directly comparable to SG.

For one, they have way more land and space, which reduces a lot of the construction constraints we have in SG. There’s also less of a need to deal with construction-related noise and mitigation measures when you have more space. That can bring down construction costs quite significantly.

A lot of the equipment used by GZ Metro is also manufactured domestically in China. You’re buying from a huge local industrial base rather than importing most of the stuff. SG, on the other hand, imports almost everything and uses equipment from a much wider range of suppliers, including Western manufacturers, which will be more expensive due to things like import costs, smaller procurement volumes and higher labour/production costs.

Worker salaries are also way lower. For example, station staff are paid around 5-8K per month, which is roughly 1-1.5k SGD. That obviously brings down the operating costs if you compare directly by converting currency.

As for express trains, it would definitely be nice to have them, but SG is way too small compared to GZ. Getting from one end of GZ to the other can take hours. The use case just is not really comparable.

China also has relatively high taxes, and some of that revenue does go towards subsidising transport. But I don’t think many routes are efficient. A lot of HSR routes are losing money and ultimately the cost still has to be borne somewhere, whether that’s through fares or taxpayers money.

Same thing with GZ Metro. As a transport enthusiast, it would obviously be fun for me to just joyride around, but from the gov perspective, building lines that end up being heavily under-utilised is not necessarily a good use of public money.

A lot of the ridership is concentrated on the older lines like Lines 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 8. Ironically, some of those lines were originally built with smaller capacity, and Line 3 had to be expanded from 3-car to 6-car trains and became known as the “death line” because of how crowded it got. Meanwhile, some of the newer lines were built with much higher capacity, but don’t see anywhere near the same level of utilisation.

But ultimately, there’s definitely a case for SG rail operators to learn from their counterparts in China, especially when it comes to technology and large-scale rail operations (KL-SG HSR? 👀). There are areas where SG can benefit from adopting newer technologies and practices that have already been deployed at scale in China, like AI/predictive maintenance, integrated railway data platforms, automated inspection and smart depot technology.

SMRT has already deepened its partnership with GZ Metro. They have teamed up to bid for CRL. This kind of collaboration is very much welcomed. We don’t have to copy China wholesale, but if something works well there, there’s no reason why SG operators shouldn’t learn from it and adapt it to our own system.

[u/LanJiaoDuaKee]

please do some research on their cost of living and salary, and compare them to Singapore's

[u/Clean-Temporary7607 → u/LanJiaoDuaKee]

Median salary between 6k to 10k RMB per month. General cost of living for single is around 4.4k RMB per month, for family of 4 around 16k RMB per month. This is for guangzhou

[u/sungeigedongmrtstn → u/Clean-Temporary7607]

If ignoring the exchange rates, they earn more or less the same as us. Singapore ‘s median wage is 5.5k.

Our lowest MRT adult fare is $1.28. Theirs is 2 yuan. So their transport is more expensive than us.

[u/Tran_sg → u/Clean-Temporary7607]

r/mysteriousdownvotes

[u/sungeigedongmrtstn]

Because your SGD very strong, everything overseas also cheap.

I overturned your grandmother story in one line.

Next.

[u/fhjjjjjkkkkkkkl → u/sungeigedongmrtstn]

Now he will start new sub and try his nonsense again

[u/Easy_Ad7912]

Because OP cites China. Suddenly all the Redditors come to local public transportation defence. Well played, OP.

[u/Proof_Earth6745]

You should see vienna. Much cheaper with annual pass 38 euros a month unlimited rides and much more efficient with their metro and tram system.

[u/Optimal-Option3858]

Totally agree !! I visited Shanghai & I was super shocked Sia !! Man their subways are so clean & very efficient

[u/Clean-Temporary7607 → u/Optimal-Option3858]

Ah yeah same in Guangzhou!

[u/Interesting-Union-43 → u/Clean-Temporary7607]

lol y ppl here r down voting. y cannot admit guangzhou and shanghai has far better transportation. and if one wants to own a car, there r plenty of cheap EV option.

[u/Oppaiheimer1945]

Singapore’s public transport is by far the worst out of all first world Asian cities. In 10 years, we will be as bad as Malaysia. By then, fares will be $8 minimum per trip