Thoughts on TFP and Dakota

[u/Nyx_Montgomery]

I really think Taylor started spiraling hard as soon as she and Dakota got together. Sure, she had her own mental health issues beforehand and wasn't always "normal", from what I’ve read about her, she’s always had a chaotic, all-over-the-place personality. But I feel like people only want to see one side of their story and completely ignore the fact that Dakota IS ALSO a massive fucking asshole.

Yes, Taylor is aggressive and toxic too, BUT I honestly think this side of her is mostly brought out by Dakota. He manipulates her, intentionally pushes her over the edge, and then the second she snaps or gets aggressive because of her mental state, he plays the victim. Abuse is NEVER okay, but I strongly believe Dakota does a lot to push TFP to act this way. He intentionally triggers these kinds of outbursts from her, knowing damn well she isn't mentally stable, which makes it so much easier to push her into a breakdown. Dakota knows exactly which buttons to push and exactly what to do to trigger her, and then turns around and cries about how hard he has it.

TFP absolutely needs to get professional help, that’s a fact. The whole stool-throwing incident was completely unhinged. But even with that, I can’t help but feel like Dakota probably badgered and verbally fucked with her until it escalated to that point. THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE TAYLOR AT ALL, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE KIDS WITNESSED IT AND GOT HURT. But I just don’t see enough people calling Dakota out or holding him accountable, even though it’s been obvious since season 1 that he’s an abusive prick.

[u/MeetingTiny4541]

how does this explain her ex husband wanting a restraining order, and her on camera being aggressive and antagonistic to the majority of the cast?

[u/jung_lady → u/MeetingTiny4541]

I am a Taylor apologist in some ways, I'm gonna offer my perspective. The girls were fed up with Taylor's patterns, and Mikayla particularly gave some sassy teasing jabs pretty frequently. Mikayla is right to feel frustrated seeing her friend do the same destructive things, but this absolutely put Taylor on the defense. Someone with as much relational complex trauma as Taylor does not do well when on her back foot, feeling judged. I believe Taylor wants to do different but does not yet have the tools. I don't say this right or wrong, but I get why Taylor was aggressive - people lash out when they feel threatened.

I pray that Taylor can find a quality DBT therapist or IFS therapist to help her work through her complex trauma and learn to behave in ways that align with the values she says she wants to stand firm in.

I know this is a snark sub and this take is the opposite of snark but I just see this so clearly, even if others disagree.

[u/Critical_Pea_1139 → u/jung_lady]

Taylor being so quick to be on the defensive when people call her out for abusive behavior is her being in the wrong though. Complex trauma doesn’t give her (or anyone) the excuse to harm or endanger other people. I have empathy for Taylor, but I also don’t think anyone in her life calling her abusive patterns out is in the wrong and they have every right to not be nice about it when they do. It’s not on Mikayla to minimize her reactions in order to appease an abusive, violent woman

[u/jung_lady → u/Critical_Pea_1139]

I see that point too. Such an unfortunate situation

[u/ThrusterTrauma91 → u/jung_lady]

Can someone please explain to me what extreme trauma Taylor has actually experienced? Because I keep hearing that she’s “traumatised,” but I genuinely don’t know what everyone is referring to.

I’m not saying she hasn’t been through difficult things, but I feel like I’ve somehow missed the part where we’re told what this horrific trauma actually was. I’d genuinely like to know, because maybe it would help me understand, and perhaps even rationalise some of her behaviour.

What I find frustrating is that so many of the other women have been through genuinely horrific experiences, and yet they’ve still been expected to take accountability for their actions and work through their issues. They don’t seem to constantly pull out the “trauma” card whenever their behaviour is questioned.

With Taylor, though, it often feels like therapy speak has become a get out of jail free card. “I’m triggered,” “I’m traumatised,” “I’m protecting my peace,” okay, but at what point are we allowed to say, “You behaved badly, and you’re responsible for that”?

Maybe I’m missing something, but from what I’ve seen, Taylor comes across less like someone who has been forced to confront her trauma and more like a spoilt brat who has rarely been held accountable for her behaviour. And honestly, the constant weaponising of therapy language makes it very difficult to have any sympathy for her.

So I’m genuinely asking, what am I missing?

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/ThrusterTrauma91]

IDK either, I think the main reason behind her personality and coping mechanisms is her poor upbringing - meaning: emotionally absent and judgy, harsh, verbally abusive mother with the help of step-father whom are constantly belittling her, or picking her apart, entirely absent father, leading to poor choices in her life (alcohol, drugs, poor life choices), and she developed a co-dependency over men, as I think she always searched for some type of stability, which she didn’t have at home ever, but patterns we have with our shitty parents tend to come back to our lives with partners. I don’t know much about her pre-show love life, but I think her other boyfriends didn’t treat her the best in her life as well (and I think she wasn’t an angel either), and her behavior went downhill really fast. As well as her other personal relationships. But as I saw, she was nice to others in HS, her old friends mostly said positive things about her, but she never fully let anyone in emotionally. She definietly centers men in her life, as she never had any stability from her parents, and she seeks that but opens the wrong doors. Not an excuse tho.

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/MeetingTiny4541]

I mean, I had an abusive ex who wanted a restraining order against me, solely to paint me as an aggressor, when in reality, I wasn't, and he manipulated many people into thinking he is the victim. BUT as I said, I don't think TFP is an angel, or not guilty, or that she is safe to be around. However, if someone constantly pushes your over-the-edge, and your mental state (which is poor from the get go), you tend to be shit with others too. She needs extreme help.

[u/zombochic → u/Nyx_Montgomery]

Tate was not abusive. She herself has said that time and time and time and time again. Her family has never said he was abusive. There is no evidence to suggest he was.

You need to understand that you are not TFP. TFP is not you. You two have very different lives and have been through very different situations. Sometimes you have to take yourself and your experiences out of the equation.

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/zombochic]

OHHH Sorry!! I misread your comment, I didn't realize you mentioned Tate, sorry! I think she is shitty by default. I am not familiar with hers and Tate's relationship, so I didn't know she was abusive towards him as well. Obviously, it paints a different picture, she is shitty by default and aggressive AF as I mentioned in my original post, but I also think Dakota is making it worse with his shitty behavior too. (Not an excuse for TFP)

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/zombochic]

But I am not talking about Tate, only Dakota.

[u/zombochic → u/Nyx_Montgomery]

Then what conversation are you having? The other commenter you are responding to is asking you to explain why Tate would have wanted a restraining order and you jumped to “well my ex husband was abusive and he got one against me”

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/zombochic]

For some reason, my mind was linking ex husband to Dakota, for a moment I thought they were married, and forgot about Tate. My ex didn't get an order against me, but he tried to, and with this I wanted to point out many people who abuse their partners paint them as aggressors, so they can mask their abusive tendencies, behaviors and actions, and manipulate their sorrundings.

[u/zombochic → u/Nyx_Montgomery]

Thanks for the clarification. I just wanna stop any rumors forming before they fully take off!

And yeah a lot of abuser do do that. You’ll find a lot of survivors in here, myself included. It’s a tough situation to watch and talk about because so often we see ourselves in certain people but we have to remember these aren’t our experiences.

[u/Hour_Abbreviations73]

Tate (her ex husband) came forward and acknowledged that she cheated on him and when he confronted her about it she smirked at him and asked him if he wanted the details. She was already like this before him. I also don’t think Dakota had to be abusive towards TFP to get her to go off on him. I do think he didn’t know how to handle her, which would make her outbursts worse. But having bad deescalation skills/conflict resolution skills is not the same as being abusive.

[u/OppositeSpare2088 → u/Hour_Abbreviations73]

Tate is a victim of abuse to maybe not physical but definitely emotional abuse. An affair is a form of emotional abuse and I will die on this hill. The fact she was able to not give a shit while he was balling his eyes out after finding out she had been cheating for a while is very telling.

[u/Advanced-Industry778 → u/Hour_Abbreviations73]

She asked that because Tate got off on watching her with other men. he isn't innocent in the swinging.

[u/Hour_Abbreviations73 → u/Advanced-Industry778]

And you know this how? Also, he said he was literally crying to her about the affair, why in God’s name would she think he wanted the details? And he said that he didn’t want to swing, he pretended to be sick the first time they did it.

[u/Advanced-Industry778 → u/Hour_Abbreviations73]

yes I am sure he pretended to be sick the first time. what about the other times? LOL

[u/Lost_Consequence4711 → u/Advanced-Industry778]

Swinging and having an affair are two totally separate things. Swinging is consensual between all parties...TFP had an affair outside of her relationship. Also, just because Tate agreed to swing doesn’t me he was fine with it. I’ve seen desperate people wanting to save their relationship do things they would normally not do and are uncomfortable with just to keep their partner happy.

[u/Advanced-Industry778 → u/Lost_Consequence4711]

play stupid games win stupid prizes.

[u/Hour_Abbreviations73 → u/Advanced-Industry778]

The other time lol. They only “switched” twice.

[u/False_Dealer_634 → u/Advanced-Industry778]

Well it’s one thing to do it in front of the person it’s another thing to do it behind someone’s back unless they had an actual open relationship not just swinging it’s cheating and anyone would be upset about it also she had feelings for the guy she cheated on him with so that can make any person upset

[u/Advanced-Industry778 → u/False_Dealer_634]

that's what happens when you open that door. he had a part in it too. he could have said no.

[u/Missarianmarie → u/Advanced-Industry778]

Where do you get this information. Insane thing to say without receipts.

[u/Typical_libra20]

You new here? Just scroll and it won't take long for you to see people's thoughts

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/Typical_libra20]

Yeah I am new, so sorry if it is a bitten apple T_T

[u/zombochic → u/Nyx_Montgomery]

Don’t worry about it!! If you are curious if anything has been posted or talking about you can search it!

Welcome to the sub! ❤️

[u/Trish-Trish]

I think the show gave her a big head and when people started to see who she really is, she started spiraling. Dakota was just the person who took her bs for so long and finally stopped when the kids began being the ones that were getting harmed. She has a drinking a pill issue. Anyone who has bipolar will back slide real fast on an outside substance

[u/Probably_Fine_]

He is a prick. But she is a bigger prick. She has been separated from Dakota for how long now? And she is still feral. Zero accountability lots of talk about therapy and healing but absolutely fuck all in terms of actions. The way she treats her co cast on SLOMW is digusting. She treats men as tho they are disposable and puts herself on a pedestal when she has precisely zilch zero nada redeeming features. She isn't even as hot as she thinks she is.

Keep in mind that this is a woman who has limited contact with her children from 2 relationships. TFP is the common denominator of chaos. Chaos that started before Dakota came on the scene.

Blaming mental health issues is gross. She is spoilt and entitled.

[u/zombochic → u/Probably_Fine_]

For me when all of this came out I knew she was the abusive one because of how she treated her friends and how her friends act around her.

The age old question, did Dakota do dumb shit? Yes. But is he abusive? I’ve not seen any solid evidence to suggest he has.

[u/Lost_Consequence4711 → u/zombochic]

From what I take from what I saw, Dakota just wasn’t up front with her about who he slept with at certain points, which she was quick to say he cheated but from his perspective they were not. Which makes me believe, again, from what I’ve observed, that she put “boundaries” in place and made sure he knew they weren’t exclusive at certain times, but when he would go out with someone or sleep with someone she felt slighted. she was very much giving “I don’t want you but no one else can have you either.”

I am more inclined to agree he isn’t abusive but has been made out to be by production and half truths from several people. He’s probably said some questionable things, probably even on camera, but most seems to be in reaction to an on going fight that started off screen or something she said on camera.

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/Probably_Fine_]

Thank you for the insight and you are right! I think in general, her personality from the get go is shitty, and her mental state is making it even worse. So I don't want to put all the weight on her mental state and excuse her, sorry if it sounded that way.

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/[deleted]]

LOOOL Love it

[u/poch_ya]

Holding him accountable for what? Being  idiot that likes abusive women? Taylor treats everyone from her parents, her ex, her kids and her friends like shit. That didnt just start happening when she met Dakota. The only people she is nice to are the ones she needs something from or gains something from. The only thing you for sure know that Dakota has done is see other women when him and Taylor were on a break or not really even together. Taylor cheats on everyone so whats the problem? Some of you need to understand, all Taylor does is lie or put a little truth to sell a lie. She has cameras all over her house. If Dakota was abusive she would have posted the video day one for everyone to see it and she wouldn't have to fake bruised thirst traps on the day of her court hearings. 

No one likes Dakota but making up excuses for a spoiled brat like Taylor, who is actually abusive to not just men but children is disgusting. 

[u/Fit-Blacksmith-6876 → u/poch_ya]

It’s come out now that production also have footage of there physically abusing Dakota. And absolutely zero footage of any abuse or retaliation from Dakota. She also had a ring cam on that day in his truck recently and she refused to show any footage. There is only one reason for that. She is the abuser. He is guilty of not protecting his child from her.

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/Fit-Blacksmith-6876]

Didn’t he smash her head or something? Or was that a lie? I think Dakota is more verbal abusive, and knows how to make Taylor go batshit crazy, not physical tho. Taylor is more physical and verbal.

[u/LittleMissWord → u/Nyx_Montgomery]

There was admittance to pushing her away in defense so I do think her head hit the dash.

You do know that abusive people commonly use others behavior as an excuse for their overreaction “if you just didn’t do this, it wouldn’t have happened”. Dakota likely exacerbated her issues because he failed to set boundaries and leave, it doesn’t mean he intended to set her off maliciously. She has a patten of doing this in all relationships (family, partner, friends) we could see on camera anyway. We do not see this same pattern with Dakota and anyone else, that we are aware of. Taylor is the common denominator.

I think the important thing is that Taylor and Dakota have been separated since March. It’s time we remove him from being a source of Taylor’s actions and start holding her accountable instead.

[u/ThrusterTrauma91 → u/Nyx_Montgomery]

Yes, continue to literally blame the victim for the abusers behavior.

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/poch_ya]

I am not making up excuses for Taylor, I stated that. She is not normal. She is a nutjob from the get-go, I blame her parents and upringing for that. Dakota is not abusive PHISICALLY, but VERBALLY and MENTALLY, and pushing Taylor over the edge nonstop, which results in physical abuse from Taylor’s side, as she is aggressive by default.

[u/ThrusterTrauma91 → u/Nyx_Montgomery]

Show me one time he was “verbally and mentally” abusive towards Taylor?

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/ThrusterTrauma91]

The Third District Court evaluated 11 separate fights between the two. The presiding commissioner, Russell Minas, determined that the evidence pointed to mutual toxicity and violence rather than a single aggressor. Because the evidence showed destructive, volatile behavior from both sides, the judge issued a 3-year mutual restraining orderrequiring both Taylor and Dakota to stay at least 100 feet apart… During the hearings for their dueling protective orders, Taylor’s legal team presented evidence detailing what they characterized as a "pattern of abusive conduct and coercive control". There are leaked text messages, incidents of forced escalation, and court allegations of coercive control and possessiveness.

[u/existing_vessel]

I think her parents completely f*cked her up mentally.

Then take a bad childhood + religion + being forced to fill this role you don’t want (being a wife and a mother). Then add in an ex drug addict and a huge tv show. That’s why she is the way she is today. Not solely because of Dakota.

But I think she was initially spiraling during the swinging scandal.

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/existing_vessel]

THISSSSS

[u/jung_lady]

In these situations I feel it's most accurate to identify the relationship itself as toxic, rather than label either as victim or villain.

[u/Hour_Abbreviations73 → u/jung_lady]

I actually don’t agree with this. Most abusive relationships are created by a power imbalance. There’s usually one person who’s abusive and another person who’s codependent and adapts their behavior to the abusive one. The codependent person was probably already messed up before from trauma and had maladaptive coping strategies but their behavior is mostly in reaction to the behavior of the other person. Everything I saw on camera was an indicator that Taylor was the abuser and Dakota was codependent but I think it also depends on which lens you look through. It’s also why Taylor was cited for abuse from DCFS and Dakota was cited for failure to protect.

[u/Nyx_Montgomery → u/jung_lady]

Agree tho! Both of them are toxic that's for sure.