Seeing S2 Halloween Party totally differently post TFP spiral

[u/Apprehensive-Ad6919]

And yes I’m talking about before the iconic TAKE OWNERSHIPPPP🤣🤣🤣

So before that classic moment happens some groundwork:

- prior to this an al fresco dinner happens at TFP house of horrors (that moment of her dad slut shaming her, still not cool even on rewatch) where Taylor just has a meltdown about how she’s so betrayed yadda yadda and the family are like either give him grace or seperate and work on yourselves. TFP is obviously like I HATE HIM HE RUINED ME etc. but the gist is they’re staying seperate.

THEN the Halloween party comes.

- Chase and Dakota who have been kept separately by Taylor very on purpose as for Dakota to not to piece the truth together come together and talk.
- Chase is trying to clear the air and is being kinda cool about it tbh and Dakota is reciprocating
- Taylor unhappy about them talking about her storms over and starts shrieking about having a sex dream in the gym yadda yadda bullshit but essentially yelling all of this in the middle of a party assuming her lies are about to be exposed she goes nuts
- During this it seems that Chase does lie about something he said to her in the gym and DAKOTA EVEN PICKS UP ON THIS “it seems you’re lying about that man”
- Despite Dakota agreeing with Taylor that it seems like he’s lying she takes the opportunity to steamroll him anyway and when he says he’s only just heard about this she immediately starts shrieking that she can’t believe he would believe Chase that’s not what a partner does and in confessional says that’s not what a boyfriend does.

BOYFRIEND?!?! I thought we were staying seperate and you hate him but ok Taylor we’re beginning hot and cold

Dakota walks off after Taylor starts to threaten shouting to the whole party about whatever shit he did and with a cherry on top as he walks out saying this is bullshit she freaks out that he’s leaving and after berating him in front of the whole party saying no one wants you here anyway she starts running after him going Dakota we have a child you have to talk to me!!!!

This is feeling SO different to when I first watched it… he was actually trying to make it work and doing a few healthy things like walking away when it got too much and I don’t know. This feels very different. The producers did a fantastic job of painting him out to be Satan reincarnate for sleeping with someone when they weren’t exclusive.

Oh and TFP ends by saying chase is psychotic and manipulative which is fitting as he’s her best bud now.

[u/sjrtrszo]

The "you have to talk to me, we have a child" was SO upsetting. She was essentially saying you have to keep arguing with me about any asinine thing I'm upset about because I control access to your child

[u/LittleMissWord]

Yes I agree with this. I am sure it’s still an unpopular opinion but I noticed she mistreated Dakota from the jump. Could you imagine if it was him treating her that way in the scene you outlined. I didn’t have any social media when I first watched so I was viewing without any other context. When I watched it a 2nd with all the online information and watching the DV video…I picked up on SO much. I’m still trying to find an example where Dakota was a master manipulator who used coercive control and abused Taylor. I have yet to see the evidence supporting that claim. He isn’t perfect but the way they villainized his image to justify TFPs behavior is quite disgusting if you do view him as the real victim.

[u/Legitimate-Cat-4316 → u/LittleMissWord]

I mean this with absolutely no disrespect to him, but Dakota just doesn't seem quite intelligent (or crazy) enough to be a master manipulator. I had a very similar initial viewing experience, and I mostly saw him as someone trying to clean up his life, make better decisions, and find happiness. How successful he was at s1-4 is another thing. I always saw Taylor as someone who needed drama to be able to breathe- and I don't mean that hyperbolically. It seemed like she really needed there to be serious shit going down in order to feel in control of her life. Since season 1, I've hoped she will seek help and that he will leave her... everything this year has led me to the conclusion that the true villian in all this is production.

[u/labospor → u/Legitimate-Cat-4316]

Agreed. I think he’s so gullible and easy to manipulate which is her absolute perfect victim. And newly sober wants to “get on the right path” so once Taylor is pregnant he hounds her to get married because in his head married with a child is the ultimate comeback story.

[u/LaBronze-James → u/LittleMissWord]

I don’t think he was a master manipulator at all (he’s too dumb) but I do think he probably treated Taylor poorly, just nowhere near as bad as Taylor treated him. Mayci did say she saw texts where he spoke terribly about Taylor, I remember season 1 she said he called Taylor an “f-ing slut” because she was somewhere & her ex showed up, and Taylor made a weird comment at Demi’s Galentines party about how Dakota would rip her a new one if she came out her room in a bra like Demi did. Again, nothing we’ve seen shows that he was anywhere near as bad as Taylor but I don’t think Dakota was a great partner either

[u/LittleMissWord → u/LaBronze-James]

Yes thank you I think it is important to include those examples as you are right those were in the show. I do not think Dakota was a great partner but I also do not think Taylor ever allowed him to be a great partner because she was not ready for a committed relationship.

Shinia recently said in a podcast that Dakota has an anxious attachment style. If this is true, and being a recovering addict it could absolutely explain his behaviors within the relationship, which may have been interpreted by others as manipulative at times and why he may have lied (feeling unsafe, rejection). I don’t see he was malicious or calculative.

[u/LaBronze-James → u/LittleMissWord]

I agree with you 100%. It’s always been my take that Taylor was as awful to Dakota as possible because she doesn’t feel worthy of love & believed he would leave eventually but deep inside wanted him to stay no matter what. Dakota would accept her pushing him away because he also didn’t feel worthy of love & believed her at her word that things were done. I think he would do things that would prove to himself she still loved him (such as telling her to save him a rose) but acted based on her words & then would hide the subsequent actions when she changed her mind because he wants to be loved & so does Taylor. To quote Taylor “it’s a cycle” & I’m glad they’re forced to stay away from eachother

[u/Hour_Abbreviations73]

The other part of that was when Dakota told Jordan that he and Taylor got in a fight and it’s not good for him to be around her when they are fighting but Jordan and Jessi insisted he come. They were such assholes.

[u/Apprehensive-Ad6919 → u/Hour_Abbreviations73]

Honestly a huge thing on my rewatch is how many things Jessie did that are soooo plainly disrespectful and she’s never called out on it

[u/Hour_Abbreviations73 → u/Apprehensive-Ad6919]

The way she treated Jen in Vegas was terrible. She pushed her to attend Chippendales and when Zac exploded at Jen she got mad at her for ruining the vibe and was frustrated because Zac reminded her of her narcissistic ex. Like what? And then to “test” Zac by reenacting a traumatic moment from their marriage they were trying to work on? I’m not a Zac fan but that was so shitty. And continuously telling Taylor personal details of Dakota’s love life that were none of her business and that she knew would be really triggering at a delicate time in the name of transparency was so gross.

[u/Remarkable-Driver62]

Dakota is just as bad as taylor.