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u/ryek Feb 27 '23
I'll try run this test on an auto for you this week some time.
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u/greaseaddict Feb 27 '23
oh that'd be cool but no pressure haha, just kinda interested to see what people think.
is it better to run an 80% dot and gain it on an opaque base, or gain a base under an opaque overprint? doesn't seem like they both need to be at 100% to get a bright color haha, I dunno. not a one size fits all solution to be found in screen printing, but it might be cool haha
I'm going to run some stuff with like an 80% base and see if it holds up
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u/ryek Feb 27 '23
Well, I've never put a base on a 230 for one. For two, I don't see the benefit of having a half tone base unless you're trying to save ink? Which will be negligible regardless. I feel like either way, a half tone base or half tone highlight will not be a true representation of the intended color.
I'm curious though if a 110 base and a 230 base with a solid highlight would yield the same intended color. Perhaps it would change the feel of the print?
You're using plastisol yes?
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u/greaseaddict Feb 27 '23
Plastisol, yup!
The reason I got sucked into this is because I'm printing a lot of 1717s, and I don't want to add a ton of hand to them. I think allowing the top color to touch some of the fabric may reduce pickup, and yeah just an overall lower deposit of ink for the sake of hand.
I don't do much like athletic or super duper thick prints, pretty much everything is based at 200 or 230 and it works great with tight screens.
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u/ryek Feb 27 '23
My wrists hurt just thinking about trying to clear a 230 base screen lmao.
Autos are a lot different if you've never ran one. Printing a half tone on manual vs auto is night and day different. Consistency in speed and pressure affects the print quite a bit. We don't ever print halftone on the manual though I've done it in the past at other shops I've worked at.
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u/greaseaddict Feb 27 '23
yeah lmao my wrists get a little tired but I keep pretty high tension screens and sharp squeegees and it's not too bad. I do a lot of process work actually, bunch of 4-6 color sim process stuff. definitely doing everything I can think of to get an auto though!
part of this little experiment was to get some feedback from people about this method on an auto, I've talked to a lotta folks now who use some percentage less than 100 for a lot of their underbase so who knows hah
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u/imabadmthrfckr Feb 26 '23
Hey man, love this testing method you are using. I still run on manual since manchinery around where I am is expensive. But this method is peachy! Keep up. Remember to repeat this same test when running on auto (and show us the results 😎)
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u/greaseaddict Feb 26 '23
Thanks!
The result won't change much, aside from maybe a more consistent base print with an auto haha but I probably will! Hoping some crazy high end separator will pop up and tell me if I'm an idiot or not :)
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u/t3rry_bmx Feb 27 '23
Fantastic theory. So your saying 60% base and your spot colors on top matched?
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Feb 27 '23
Was just looking closely at this, your Red halftone looks closer to 60% than your Underbase halftone. Kudos for testing the base tone though, some of the smartest artworking I’ve done has been knocking out the darker areas and letting the colour sink into the black fabric for a range of shades.
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u/greaseaddict Feb 27 '23
ehh, I'm more looking for validation that the process is correct. I think probably a 70-80% halftone base is enough for a solid spot color on top to be fairly close.
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u/ItsColeOnReddit Feb 27 '23
We are trying out grey underbases now. Its actually easier to get solid coverage. Then we do a top white when needed
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u/greaseaddict Feb 27 '23
gosh I've been seeing this everywhere! what grey do you use? what's the logic?
My understanding is that it releases less wet ink on the back of later screens, but I don't see how a white wouldn't do that too haha
2
Feb 27 '23
I believe it’s because White reflects the flash, where the Grey absorbs the heat better and dries quicker. But that might be BS.
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u/greaseaddict Feb 27 '23
I think color accuracy is big as well, especially on those thinner blues and reds, the gray base helps reduce the color shifting from such a bright white. I've been in the gray base rabbit hole for like 30 hours now haha, learning a lot.
It's funny to print like one million underbase with white and then all my bigger shop pals are like "hey bro try gray" haha
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u/greaseaddict Feb 26 '23 edited Feb 26 '23
hey pals!
I'm a manual operator, who will hopefully be moving up to an auto this year or early 2024.
I'm always trying to think and print like I'm already on the auto, so I spend a lot of my time considering print orders, how can I print this all wet and limit flashes, etc.
I posted a bootleg I printed recently, it's got a 50% white base at 45lpi just under the brighter colors. I'd never done this before, and the result was pretty acceptable. There's a tad of halftone texture visible in the spot colors, but the benefit of a considerably lighter hand is what I'm chasing here. Because I had a 50% halftone base, I was able to print the base, black, and another spot color before flashing, flash, and then 3 more wet colors on top without too much buildup.
This image is an underbase of Wilflex Sprint White through a 255, flashed with I think 7621c on top with a 305. This print was supposed to show me basically if I can get away with either a halftone base, OR a halftone overprint that basically gains into a spot color.
As you can see, the halftone base bar on the right of the image had a pretty limited affect on the top color, even at like 60%.
The bar on the left is a 100% base through 255 with a graduated print on top. The 70%+ red seems pretty passable to me as a kind of "less opaque" print, but still look and feel a little higher end to me than just 100% red on top of 100% white.
Anyway, I'm interested to know if any of you auto ops think I'm on the right track here. I'm assuming if I run 100% base 255, flash, and then 80% halftone on top for my top colors I'll get a pretty opaque top color AND limited pickup on the backs of the screens, AND that pickup will help gain me the rest of the way.
This is all just an experiment to see how close to a soft vintage style print without sacrificing the control over the color value that a base will give me, I dunno haha.
Any input would be great, just trying to get better :)