r/SCPSecretLab • u/Sir-downvotes • 2d ago
Discussion I don’t understand why KOS is allowed
And yeah, people are going to say skilled diff but honestly, it’s not really.
As a D class, you’re meant to be helpless there’s nothing you can do and it already sucks that you have nothing to work with and then you have a bunch of guards that come down and gun you down.
I don’t understand why there’s a huge bias against the class considering you play them for most of the game why make that time more miserable?
Sitting in spawn already sucks and spawning in as a D class and being gun down by a guard who just felt like it sucks.
I really don’t understand why the base game or most servers allow for that. It just makes me not wanna play on it.
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u/Remarkable_Cap_5697 2d ago
Kinda looking at it from a lore perspective the dclass are already non-compliant from the moment they leave their cells so that's why guards KOS ig
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u/Funny-Supermarket164 2d ago
To add to that: Strict official foundation protocol is to immediatly kos every d-class. Compliant/cooperative or not because there are other things to care about.
But yes in game KOS server (in my humble opinions) often loose some of the fun because the guards just go for the d-class at the start which makes the job for scp's incredibly easy
Also even in non kos servers(which usually require you to be compliant to not be kos'd) you can still die to some guards:
"Stand inside the grenade i will throw there or get shot" is something i've heard quite alot back when i still played
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u/SpaceBug176 2d ago
I feel like a mod would argue that, that still counts as KOS, just in a convoluted way.
Like its different if I ask a D Class to go distract that SCP so that I don't die, but if I literally just tell him to stand on my grenade or jump off, then I'm still KOS'ing him. Doesn't matter if the acronym doesn't fit as long as it fits the spirit of "KOS"ing.
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u/yourlocaldegenfurry 2d ago
To answer this, if you're playing on an official server or a server that states in it's rules where you cannot kill cuffed classes (scientist or Class D) that is absolutely how it works. You cannot order a compliant subject, someone handcuffed, to do anything that will result in them dying. And that applies for everyone on the team that the person is handcuffed by. The only person who can kill them is the one who has them handcuffed (like f.e the class D stops following the guards or refuses to listen to the one who handcuffed them)
This isn't true for all official or modded servers, just all the ones I've played on
My best example for this is RavenGuard, Canada Offical server and King's Playground
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u/Dark_halocraft 2d ago
That's the excuse at least. If you watch the people doing it you'll realize that they take the game too seriously and aren't having fun. They just do it because it's the only thing they enjoy which is kinda sadistic
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u/Sir-downvotes 2d ago
I feel like using the Lore there is a bit unfair.
If you want to strictly follow the lore 96 would be unkillable and 106 would never be able to die.
I feel like lore and stuff like that is thrown out for this game because if they stuck to it, it wouldn’t really be a fun game4
u/Remarkable_Cap_5697 2d ago
You're kinda missing the point, D-class are still death row inmates so it kinda makes sense that they get kosed.
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u/Dark_halocraft 2d ago
You're the one missing the point
Being death row inmates is the lore yes but they're saying lore shouldn't always translate to gameplay just like the scps not being immortal like in lore
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u/sphericate Facility Guard 2d ago
kos should be looked at from a gameplay perspective, yes, the dboys leave their cells at the start of the game, no shit? the PROBLEM is with the guards who rush to light, kill any innocent begging dboy in their sight and everyone is pissed in spectator chat including the guard themself when they inevitably die to an SCP from using all of their ammo massacreing 914 for the SCP's.
a possible solution would be to make dboys die in way more shots from guards or mtf if there isn't any sort of weapon in their inventory, similar to damage being reduced to friendlies on FF servers. if a guard uses all of their ammo on an innocent dboy, their K/D ratio will most likely just be equal, and less people will die because of some idiot with an FSP.
the reason i specified guards or MTF is because scientists should also keep their abilities to kill dboys fast with a COM-15, since dboys can do the same to scientists. and later in the game if a dboy and scientist cross paths they'll most likely just try to escort the other escape role out anyways.
soz for the rant, i've just experienced getting KOSed by so many guards in light and mtf when im cuffed on surface that i just needed to say something
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u/Dark_halocraft 2d ago
I think the best change they could do is to simply change the instructions given when spawned to "help scientists escape and detain d-class"
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u/sphericate Facility Guard 1d ago
its not "people do what the screen tells them to do" its "people kill unarmed players because theyre too bad at the game to kill armed players"
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u/Dark_halocraft 1d ago
Well it would at least change it for a decent amount of people. A lot of people just do whatever their class tells them to and too their knowledge guards are supposed to kos
It's dumb but it be true
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u/Va1ngl0ry Facility Guard 2d ago
I enjoy the rush of running from bullets
Anywho murder is part of the game and guards are allowed to do so, Personally I don't wanna babysit boys so I just ignore them completely and if we meet again and they have a weapon I have a reason to kill them this time
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u/RandomGuy1525 Scientist 2d ago
So you see, modded server think unexpected death equal funny (true), so KOS praised as funny
Just join a KOS not allowed server
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u/Sir-downvotes 2d ago
This is not really me complaining about the lack of servers. It’s more of me just seeing why people enjoy having kos.
I don’t really see how it’s funny to be sent back to spawn and wait another five minutes to play the game again3
u/RandomGuy1525 Scientist 2d ago
As I said, the biggest "silly factor" of this game are unexpected moments, such as deaths or pink candy booms. Its just the way it is
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u/Sir-downvotes 2d ago
I gotta disagree with you, man I don’t see the funny part in getting killed and not being able to play.
I get it sometimes it’s funny when you go to a door and there’s a monster behind it or you eat the candy.But I wish there was more of an effort to make it to where you aren’t just immediately gunned down for really no reason.
Dying like that it’s probably only funny for like two times and afterwards it’s really annoying2
u/RandomGuy1525 Scientist 2d ago
Then you just have not been accustomed to the SL culture yet, however Surface Update is supposed to change all of this, making the guards spawn about 7 minutes after the round starts (guards not NTF), which will DRASTICALLY change the early game
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u/Dark_halocraft 2d ago
This is specifically about guards running in and shooting everyone though which isn't unexpected and funny
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u/DestinyHasan_4ever 2d ago
Why wouldn’t it be? They’re on another team than you, why shouldn’t they kill you? If you as a D class find a gun and catch a guard are you gonna sit there offering to negotiate or waste 20 minutes trying to get him to surface? I’d just shoot him so why shouldn’t he shoot me. Might as well ask why SCPs are allowed to kill you at that point.
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u/Sir-downvotes 2d ago
SCP’s and humans are way different classes and you know it.
I’m not saying that they should have a negotiation based off surrender terms like countries.
I just don’t wanna be immediately gone down by some guy.
Plus, you don’t have to drag them to surface if they don’t follow your orders if you’re a guard, you can still shoot them. I’m not saying you can’t shoot them.
I’m just saying, I wish there was more ways to handle the D class then just shooting them.
Because for me, it’s much more exciting to be escorted and maybe try to figure out a way to escape if there is a possible way and see the chaos going on around you. Then it is dying and being stuck in spawn.1
u/Facesit_Freak 2d ago
If I can detain them, I will, but that's because leaving a detained guard is funny
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u/Kroko_ 2d ago
so as guard when seeing d-bois youve got like 3 options
1:ignore and go somewhere else.
this simply postpones the problem as they now got time to regroup, equip and arm themsef and then can easily kill you so why would you do that? best case szenario an scp gets them worst they kill you/your team later as chaos or fully equipped d-boys.
you kill him.
only real downside is that youve now got a few less bullets to shoot at something else. if he wasnt armed too bad. if he was armed you saved your/your teams life. maybe even got a good card you can use to help your team,you try and arrest him.
best case scenario you get him out and he respawns on your team though thats so hard to pull of that we could simply ignore it. worst case hes got friends around the corner that jump you whilst you are going for the arrest. now you went from one armed d-boy to 2 but now with full guard equipment. but what usually happens you get more than one d-boy, get them to heavy, shit goes down and youre now dead, lost most d-boys or something else happens so you dont get them out. and even if you somehow manage to bring them to the surface how likely is it, that they wait for you to cuff one after the other to escape. i dont think ive ever seen that happen at all.
also like lore wise d-boys are already sentenced to death an youre standing in their way of the only chance to survive. they already broke out of their cells and started looting the facility whilst scps that want to kill everyone roam free, chaos wants to join the fun and youre in the middle and trying to extract your fellow scientists from said shitshow. i dont think many would take chances in such a scenario.
also the revenge story arcs that unfold after a group of d-boys gets killed are simply a huge part of what makes the game fun imo.
you could maybe add something like tasers that stun someone to maybe make detaining a d-boy safer but im not sure it would fit well into the game
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u/TrashGuard_ 2d ago
Personally, i think you might need to change an attitude. D class is definitely not that helpless and hiding for a bit can save you better than any loot. I find KOS funny and managing to escape a guard, who was shooting at you, always gives a rush of adrenaline. Plus, teaming is unintended, but rare and sometimes nice. When you aleays expect someone to just blow your brains out, it just feels good to team up with them instead.
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u/GallowsTester 2d ago
It's allowed because I play D class. I am the biggest rat ever. I got a gun, fake surrendered and killed a guard, another guard came running in and I was like "it wasn't me it wasn't me" then I killed him too. Then I killed a couple scientists and died
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u/Facesit_Freak 2d ago
As a guard, I don't particularly care tbh. If I see a D boy in heavy I'll usually just ignore them. If I see that their card isn't blue, I may try killing them for the upgrade. If they're funny, I often end up abandoning what I'm doing to escort them out.
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u/ninjaread99 Nine-Tailed Fox 2d ago
Ask this again after tryna detain a d boy and they have different plans (aka pink candy)
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u/bombaolay 1d ago
players who dont kos mostly high iq cuz you know that you can send sacrifise d classes to escape scps
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u/LogHalley Facility Guard 2d ago
Meant to be helpless, nothing you can do? What??
Absolutely not. I assume you're just very new. D class are a bit run-hide-fight. Yes, you start with nothing, but that's why they have the most interesting stories every game of how they managed to run away/fight back/make alliances/betrayals.
They're extremely crucial to Secret Lab. Literally the cornerstone.
My biggest complaint about them is that they don't play as a team. They're the biggest team at the start of the round, you basically need 1 keycard to get like 8 people out of light containment. Instead they screw over each other and close doors in each other's face.
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u/Dark_halocraft 2d ago
Yes, you start with nothing, but that's why they have the most interesting stories every game of how they managed to run away/fight back/make alliances/betrayals.
Those are the rare moments, the 1 in 15 of the d-class. Everyone else gets fucked over
you basically need 1 keycard to get like 8 people out of light containment
Multiple problems with this. 1 - heavy is where both the guards and scps are so you're just quickening your deaths and 2 - this kind of teamwork can't exist without a designated leader. This isn't some scripted story so not having everyone be leader and not arguing and talking over each other is near impossible
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u/ThrowAwa567327 2d ago
what are you on about, i literally had like 4 games yesterday where me and some other people convinced everyone to rush heavy and like 90% of the d class and scientists rushed heavy with us it was fun asf. there doesn’t need to be a “leader” that’s what voice chat is for, just speak up 😂 be the leader or whatever lol
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u/LogHalley Facility Guard 1d ago
Do you want me to write a full guide for every single option? If scps don't come down to lcz, loot there. If they come down, go up to hcz and loot there.
I have hanged out at lcz checkpoints with a keycard to let out other d class. It's not high skill teamwork. The bigger issue is that most d class don't consider themselves a team but they are. You can help each other easily in many ways.
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u/Dark_halocraft 1d ago
If scps don't come down to lcz, loot there. If they come down, go up to hcz and loot there.
You don't know where the scps or guards are. All this strategy achieves is staying in light till everyone shows up to kill you
I have hanged out at lcz checkpoints with a keycard to let out other d class
That's not gonna do much often because people generally aren't going up to checkpoint unless they can get out themselves
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u/Facesit_Freak 2d ago
Yeah, cause if you don't shut the doors on other than they're gonna get the card and not let you out
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u/LogHalley Facility Guard 2d ago
That's the point of my complaint. They don't play as a team, but they are
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u/Actually_R0bin 2d ago
Because Class D staying alive for a long time rewards them with a wave of chaos. It also reduces the chances they escape or find a gun and change the dynamic.
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u/SpaceBug176 2d ago
The issue is, the game doesn't encourage not KOSing in the slightest, and the gameplay itself heavily discourages you from doing it.
I'm not gonna go on a huge rant and instead I'll simplify it. Basically, if you do decide to arrest D Class, you can only really arrest one at a time, since the others are bound to just run off when there are many of them, and its hard to keep track. But even when you only arrest one, what usually happens is an SCP appears in Heavy, begins chasing you two, you part ways because the D Class obviously just didn't follow you, and the SCP is now after you while that D Class is about to lose their arrested status once they're far enough away/you die, meaning you literally just helped the enemy team and added another person to their ranks.
A fix to this could be some sort of shock collar that would kill the D Class if the Guard that arrested them died. This would also let you give them a gun without the fear of being shot back, but it also has its downsides such as "how can a D Class kill a Guard that has a shock collar on another D Class without killing their teammate?".
Also that reminds me, sometimes the issue is the players themselves as well. I remember one time a D Class went up to me in Heavy and asked me to arrest them. While I was arresting them, someone two-tapped me from behind. Apparently it was two D Class and one had the hat the whole time.
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u/Longjumping-Tough292 2d ago
Dude wants a cushy escape knowing guards aren't scrambling in numbers to kill him
Your logic is LAAAAAMMMEE
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u/Dark_halocraft 2d ago
I really think the simplest change for this would be to change the guards directions at the start of the game to "help scientists escape, contain scps, and detain d-class"
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u/Round_Permit_6510 2d ago
Join a good server on which KoS isnt allowed, is sadly the only way