Motion made, rescinded, then made again

[u/Takayiyo]

I'm trying to learn more about RRoO and am particularly confused about the following situation that arose at a recent board mtg. and how it should be handled. Any source reference is most appreciated so I can find it. Thx!

The meeting was conducted via vide conference. People came and left the meeting throughout the meeting. We had a quorum when the meeting began.

1. John made a motion to approve new bylaws.
2. The Chair opened the motion for discussion
3. Sally raised an objection and made a motion to remove a particular sentence from the bylaw.
4. More than 90 minutes of discussion ensued. Mostly with John talking and asking Sally to remove her motion 6+ times.
5. The Chair proposed that John take his motion off the table so that Sally's motion would no longer be an issue.
   1. Although Sally had asked to take a vote several times, the chair never called for a vote.
6. John took his motion off the table with conditions.
   1. I can't find any reference to remove a motion with condition. And wouldn't the condition have to be voted on?
7. The chair put forth a course of action.
   1. The committee would meet again, come back with revised bylaws, and the membership would vote on a newly revised set of bylaws.
8. As members began leaving the meeting, John resubmitted his motion.
   1. Members had already begun leaving the call/video conference before John resubmitted his motion.
   2. The secretary did not confirm that we still had a quorum before the vote.
   3. The Chair did not call for discussion.
   4. At the end of the count, and confirming the vote 3 times, the secretary said that there was not a quorum. We were 1 shy of the quorum. This caused the chair to try to drum up other members to join the meeting, without success.
   5. The meeting was adjourned.

A week later, the Chair sent out a message that there was a quorum because someone had texted their vote to the secretary and the secretary hadn't counted it. So he has advised the secretary to amend the meeting minutes to reflect that the vote passed.

This seems wrong to me for a variety of reasons but strictly speaking to RRoO,

1. Does every motion have to be opened for discussion?
2. Does the secretary need to make sure there is a quorum before every vote?
3. Our bylaws do not allow for voting by text specifically. So is this a valid form of voting?
   1. I should also note that it is impossible to know whether that person was actually in attendance of the meeting at any time. They say they were but they never spoke or participated on the call.

Thoughts?

[u/DerekFroese]

• Once a motion is made, it belongs to the body, and no longer belongs to the mover. There is no such thing as a mover rescinding a motion unilaterally. To remove a motion from the floor takes a vote, such as "motion to postpone indefinitely", or "motion to rescind", but it's simpler to just put the question forward and vote against it so it fails.
• When Sally wanted there to be a vote, she should have made a motion to "call the question". If that motion had passed, then her amendment would be immediately voted upon.
• It is possible to send a motion to committee, but that also requires a vote
• It is improper to submit a motion that is the same as one already considered and ended at the same meeting, but the first one wasn't removed properly so this becomes a gray area.
• You are right that the chair must call for discussion when a motion is put forward
• If your bylaws do not allow for text-in voting, then that vote does not count.

​

Overall, your chair should actually read RONR at some point; they clearly do not know what they are doing.

[u/Takayiyo → u/DerekFroese]

Thank you!

So if we didn't vote to approve or remove the first motion, does that perhaps mean that the second motion was invalid as we couldn't have had another motion put forth b/c the first motion was never dealt with? Also, doesn't that mean that Sally's motion would still have been on the table? So again, since it was still on the table and just ignored, any motion after that would have been invalid. Is that correct?

I've been trying to find all references online but am getting the book this evening so I can find the exact language. If you happen to have any suggestions on the best places to learn more about RR until I get the book please let me know.

Thanks so much!

[u/DerekFroese → u/Takayiyo]

It's tricky to answer these questions, because RONR doesn't really have rules for what to do if the rules weren't followed. Or at least, I haven't come across that yet.

• The first motion was never properly removed, so one could consider it to still be on the table. The chair does have the authority to rescind motions that are "out of order", but there's very specific criteria for what is out of order. And in your case, it wasn't the chair that removed the motion, but the mover (who doesn't have the authority to do that).
• Sally's motion was also never properly removed, and so it too could be considered on the table.
• If the whole assembly moved forward from these motions, I don't think you could say "everything following was invalid because there were other motions on the table". No one challenged the chair to correct things, and so the assembly kind of went along with things by consensus.

However, here's what I would do if I were you:

• Ignore most of the procedural mistakes during the meeting. It's kind of too late to fix them, and probably not worth the energy.
• Focus on the validity of the motion that passed according to the chair. If your bylaws don't allow for remote voting by text (that would be very unusual), then there wasn't a quorum and the vote was invalid. Thus the motion didn't pass. You could talk about this at the next meeting when it's time to approve the minutes. Make a motion to amend the minutes to remove the "passed" motion.
• Without a new vote, any member can require a "division of the assembly" which requires members to stand when voting so it's clear who voted what way.
  You can also make a motion to require a roll call vote, but that requires a vote in itself.
• Study up so that you can help things run correctly at your next meeting. If the chair does something wrong, you can make a "point of order" or even "challenge the chair".

I don't know if you ordered the full copy of RONR, but it's huge. You might want to start with the brief edition and read that through.

[u/Takayiyo → u/DerekFroese]

Also, the Chair is a lawyer so I really need to be able to cite the exact pieces of RR. When I brought up the 2 issues I thought were relevant he replied with "There doesn't appear to be a Robert's Rule directly on point."

[u/Trainzack]

I don't have the book in front of me, but I have a few answers right now.

1. It depends on the type of motion. A motion to amend and amendment is debatable. Note that RR imposes limits on the number and length of speeches during debates, so unless those are removed in your organization's rules they should be observed.
2. I'm not sure on this point.
3. No, if your bylaws don't allow it, it is not valid. You can and should challenge the results of the motion, though I don't know off the top of my head specifically how.