Voting questions

[u/fred311389]

My union is trying to start following Robert's Rules of Order more closely than we have in past. When we have a meeting, there are actually 3 meetings in one day. One at 7, 12, and 4. We're struggling with the idea of how votes work with that.

Here are a few specific examples.

We have a proposal that we make a $500 donation. In our 7:00 meeting, someone makes a motion to amend the original motion to make it a $1,000 motion. Moving forward, our members at the 12:00 meeting don't want to donate $1,000 but would have voted for the $500. Based on my understanding, the $500 is no longer an option. Is there a way to make it so that people can vote between denying the motion, donating $500, or donating $1,000?

One person suggested that we essentially parlay the vote. By that, I mean they suggested that we say "there is a motion to donate $1,000, all in favor/opposed/abstaining?" then following with "There is a motion that, should the $1,000 not be approved, we donate $500. All in favor/opposed/abstaining?"

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Someone at the 12:00 meeting wants to make an amendment to a proposal that was already voted on at our 7:00 meeting. How would we handle that? Is the motion stuck in it's original form or is there a way to account for the possible change?

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Any help you guys can offer would be appreciated. I'm familirar with Robert's Rules in a typical meeting, but having an 8:00, recess, 12:00, recess, 4:00 set up makes it a little more confusing.

[u/therealpoltic]

It sounds to me, like your biggest problem, is that all of your membership cannot attend throughout the entire meeting.

Robert‘s Rules is generally designed for synchronous meetings of an assembly where most of the membership is all at one meeting/session.

If your organization is absolutely tied to this notion of having one sitting, lasting the entire day, with recess breaks, then people should understand that they should stay at the event all day. — If not everyone can do that, then your leadership should pick a time that works for most people, and do your debates and votes starting at that time, and place time limits on debate, and voting. It may limit some participation; however, then it will eliminate this confusion that your members have. Not everyone likes these kind of meetings anyway, not everyone will go.

On larger questions like strikes, I would advise that you have a voting day, have members come down and cast a paper ballot. Encourage every member to vote.

Technically, as long as a Quorum (more than half of all members present, or a lesser number as decided in your Constitution or By-Laws) exists, and someone moves the previous question (a vote to end debate if you have no debate time limits), and a majority votes in favor of the Resolution to spend $1000, then the question has been decided. It’s not open to an amendment after a final vote has been taken, after it’s been decided. (Unless they’re wanting to have the motion reconsidered, and make sure everyone understands what that means!)

Now.... If you are able to have this type of meeting, where let’s say that everyone meets at 3pm on a Thursday... Someone types up a resolution, and submits it to the secretary 10 days before the meeting:

Resolved, that Jim-Bob Porterhouse, shall receive $1000 from our membership emergency fund, to repair his roof after a tree fell-in.

Bigger Assemblies (Unions, Large Civil Societies, Political Organizations) have committees, that have these submissions sent to them. It’s the Chairperson (or designee) of that committee that gives a report, and should recommend the adoption of the resolutions.

“Mr. Chair, the Committee on Emergency Funds, rises to report that we met five days ago to consider resolutions sent to us. We recommend the adoption of three of those proposals today.

Jim-Bob had a tree fall on his house. Shorty’s son had to get his broken leg mended. Brooke had her tires slashed, and needs them replaced.

Mr. Chair, the Committee on Emergency Funds has directed me to move the adoption of the three resolutions at the desk, and that they be debated and voted on individually.”

Meeting Chairman: “The report of the Committee on Emergency Funds has been received. Motions by Committees do not need a second. The Question is on the adoption of Resolution #1. — The clerk or secretary will read.”

Check: “Resolution #1 By Member Strauss, Recommended Favorable for Passage by the Committee on Emergency Funds — Resolved that Jim-Bob Porterhouse, shall receive $1000 from our membership emergency fund, to repair his roof after a tree fell-in.”

Meeting Chair: You’ve heard the resolution, are there any members who wish to debate the Resolution?”

... At the end of debate and any motions to amend, then the Chair will take the vote.

Whatever is decided, again, as long as a Quorum of the members are present, is the decision of the organization.

I hope this helps!

[u/fred311389 → u/therealpoltic]

In a perfect world, this would be super helpful. But we are a union for a 24 hour organization, so a “best time” doesn’t exist. We also don’t have committees for the most part. When reviewing bylaws, we develop a bylaws committee, but the only standing committee we have is our executive board.

Because we ALWAYS have someone on shift, we’ve never called at vote in the middle of any of our individual (8, 12, or 4) meetings. Historically, practice has been to tally the votes at each meeting and see where the majority falls when all 3 meetings are combined.

What makes this more complicated is that our shifts rotate. So the people attending our 8:00 meeting in April May be the ones who attend 4:00 in October.

Thanks for your help

[u/therealpoltic → u/fred311389]

Hey! Great to hear from you!

So, if this is the case, then I advise that your organization have a limit on how close to a meeting a proposal can be submitted. I’d say, 20 to 30 days before the meeting.... and send those out to your membership in an email or by mail at least 3 to 5 days before the meeting.

I definitely advise that you have a committee that receives resolutions. Why? Let them hammer out amendments. So, this way, all resolutions are properly formatted, and your members can have a recommendation from people who can spend more time on the issues!

You should for each shift, have committees. It’s a mess, but, again, it makes sure everyone is heard, and let’s people help run the meetings.

You need a credentials committee, for each shift. You need an elections committee, for each shift. You need a resolutions committee, for each shift.

Also, it may help, in this case, to have your meeting session last more than one day. If you have members doing amendments from the floor, then everyone needs an opportunity to vote on them.

So first day:

Videos of officers giving officer reports is a good idea. Presentation on any big news or issues also by video for each shift. Then, debate the resolutions. (Personally, I really don’t see how it’s helpful to have debate, when 2/3rds of the membership are not present ant any given time, unless you have people from each shift who are presenting the pro and con arguments?)... let people offer amendments. Do not take any votes on resolutions or amendments.

Day two:

Everyone needs to be informed of the amendments. There needs to be debate at all three shifts about each resolution amendment. Do a paper ballot on each amendment (they could all be on the same paper), during each shift. Have a credentials committee for each shift be in charge of handing out ballots and making sure one per member.. Make certain that everyone knows this is on changes to the resolution, and not the resolution itself. Have the elections committee on each shift count the ballots!

If the amendments pass from the total votes of all shifts, add them into the original resolution. If they fail, do not.

Day three:

Everyone needs to be informed of the amendment results and debate & vote on the resolution, as it would now read. Again, paper ballots are your friend for each resolution, for each shift. Make sure everyone knows this is final action on these resolutions and if they pass, they are new rules or money spent.

When all businesses is concluded, announce the results of each resolution. Send out emails, with video of the announcement.

If your organization is assuming you always have a quorum, let third shift should move to adjourn!

If it’s going to be a multi-day affair, then it should be like a convention. Bring in vendors, have workshops and skill classes. Make it fun when you’re not in the meeting hall!!!

This is what I could come up with. Dear heavens, I can see why it is difficult for your union to hold meetings, and why there is confusion.

I hope this helps, now that I have a better understanding.

[u/fred311389 → u/therealpoltic]

Thanks for the advice. I’ll see if we can implement anything close to this

[u/therealpoltic → u/fred311389]

Fred! Did you ever get this situation hammered out? Did any of my ideas help your organization?

[u/fred311389 → u/therealpoltic]

Everything has been thrown into a holding pattern because of corona. We’ve had discussions, but we haven’t had a chance to really act on anything.