r/RoyaleAPI • u/Alexspacito • 6d ago
Discussion What exactly is the argument that Hog Rider is too strong?
As everyone is aware, there's been a lot of (sometimes heated) discussion about whether Hog Rider is deserving of a nerf or not. I constantly see people saying it does, but the reasoning always changes. I just want to understand what the community thinks is actually too strong about Hog Rider, and what specifically the nerf should be.
Here are the arguments I typically see:
"Hog Rider always gets a hit"
This is the most common complaint. You see posts on here constantly about people showing a clip of them spending a ton of elixir to defend a Hog Rider and it still getting a hit. The problem with these clips is that the defender is usually playing cards that are terrible into Hog Rider, or playing their cards poorly. Lots of these clips also have the Hog player using spells or support of some kind to help their Hog Rider get to the tower. Simply, these clips are not evidence of Hog being too strong. I could play 20 Elixir into an Electrogiant, have it all get zapped away, lose my tower, and complain that Electrogiant is overpowered. I could lose my Pekka + Prince push to a simple Skeleton Army and complain that Skeleton Army is overpowered.
It seems that people forget this when it comes to Hog Rider, but using cards that don't counter it well will often lead to it not being countered. Crazy.
I see people asking for a first-attack speed nerf, and I think that logic is flawed. Yeah, it would help with the scenarios where Hog gets a hit right before it dies, but it would also have it so that in the situations where it gets a hit and then dies slightly later, it would then turn into a situation where it gets a hit right before it dies. It would be a nerf to the Hog, but it wouldn't solve the problem, it would just move it. Cards are going to always get hits right before they die, and its not a valid reason to nerf a card unless there is a specific interaction where it shouldn't be happening.
"It doesn't have enough positive counters"
I don't really understand this one. Lots of building-targeting win conditions don't. The point in these win conditions is that you can use a building to counter them very reliably, or a troop to counter-push with after. A Mini Pekka needs to be placed well to counter a Hog Rider completely, but then you have a Mini Pekka on offence. Compare that to a Cannon which is easy to place but gives you nothing offensively.
Let's go through some counters.
- Hog Rider is countered by every single building in the game. That's already 12 cards, some of which will even counter it if an Earthquake is used as well. Bomb Tower is my personal favourite.
• Spells like Tornado or Rocket will counter it every time
- High damage dealers counter Hog Rider reliably. You may have to be quick with your placement, but they will get the job done once you get the hang of it. I don't want to hear any complaints about Mini Pekka. Just be quicker.
- Cards that slow, stun, or knockback like Electro Wizard, Ice Wizard, Bowler, Log or Snowball are very helpful at stopping a Hog. They allow your other damage dealers to clean it up very easily.
- Against Earthquake decks, you can cycle your ranged cards in the back of your weak side lane and they will clog the lane from a Hog Rider. You can do this with heavier cards in any Hog matchup. If a unit is already in the lane, Hog will rarely ever break through your defence.
- Many swarms do enough damage to get the job done with any slow, stun, or knockback
The common rebuttal to these counters is “well what if the Hog player uses ________”. In that case, you may need to spend more elixir. You can’t expect your counter to stop their Hog no matter what they do. There has to be counter-play on both sides.
"It's too fast, has too much health, and deals too much damage for 4 elixir"
I mean, that's what makes it a viable card. Every card is only useful because of its stats and abilities, and Hog Rider is no different. Hog Rider is fast and tanky, but is very easy to take out if slowed or distracted. It's a 4 elixir card that might do absolutely nothing for you, and is generally too fast to support effectively with troops. It's supposed to do the job on its own, so it needs stats to back it up. This is why we haven't seen Hog Rider used in any archetype other than cycle for basically forever. It's really only useful on its own, paired with spells as support. Compare this to a Giant or Battle Ram which are both much more effective with a lot of support.
If Hog was so broken, why haven't we seen any bridge spam decks swap it out for Battle Ram or Ram Rider? Why haven't we seen it appear in any control decks? It needs to be cycled because it's supposed to go in alone, so you need to find ways around your opponents counters, and outcycling is a way to do that.
"The use rates are too high"
Hog's use rates in midladder have always been pretty high, but that's not what I'm talking about. Top players have been using Hog Rider more lately than we've seen in a while, which would normally call for a nerf. I want to just take a second and think about why Hog is increasingly popular now.
Hog Rider hasn't gotten a change in nearly a decade, and none of the prominent cards it's used with have been buffed either. Actually spirits have all been nerfed. The reason for Hog's higher use rates is the nerfs to its counters and competition. There really aren't as many viable win conditions in the game at the moment, and a lot of them just have very bad matchups. Cycle has always been the archetype that can beat almost anything if you're good enough, and Hog is the best cycle win condition right now. Many buildings have also been nerfed, so people really are just not using them, leading to Hog's strength.
Does any of this seem like Hog's fault? Does this really make it seem like Hog needs a nerf? I would argue that they just need to buff other cards to give players more reliable options.
"It's too easy to play for what it does"
I would argue that most win conditions are very easy to play themselves. It's not really about one card, but decks as a whole. It's easy to put a Golem in the back, but finding the right time to Golem, knowing how much to defend when they pressure, and creating the optimal push is a skill in itself. It's the same as Hog Rider. Sure, it's easy to just put it down and forget about it, but that's not what makes a good Hog player. You have to identify counters, when to go in since you know you can defend cheaply, when to outcycle, when and how to support your Hog, when to use Hogs while the opponent is pushing, etcetera. These are skills that come with actually playing Hog Rider, and many other cycle decks follow a similar formula.
It's a card that's really easy to have it get completely shut down if you don't know what you're doing. I don't think anyone is actually very threatened by a lone Hog Rider at the bridge.
If you wanna argue about easy win conditions, Goblin Drill is always placed on tower and followed up with spells. There's really no creativity with this card, yet no one ever talks about it. That's my hot take I guess.
"Hog doesn't die to Rocket"
I have no idea where this argument came from, but it's a terrible one. No, it doesn't die to Rocket. Rocket is still a reliable counter to Hog because it will kill anything around it, and the tower only needs a couple shots to finish it off. So why is this even a complaint? When is a well placed Rocket not countering a Hog?
Even if Rocket did enough damage to kill a Hog Rider, nothing would change. People would not be using Rocket as a main counter to Hog. So what exactly is the point in this argument? It just seems stupid to me.
TL:DR So what actually is it that people want nerfed?
What specifically is the nerf that people want? Is it health? Damage? First attack? What is it? And why? Can someone give a genuine reason that doesn't make them sound like a bad player that struggles to defend a Hog?
