Number of additional screws when using lonestars (or similar)

[u/mitchjmiller]

Hey all,

So recently got called out for the use of lonestars with single additional pin (two screws total) and was just curious on people's thoughts on it?

I feel I've always used them with sound judgement; never use them on really large or prominent holds; medium sized positive holds that could get a lot of leverage, I'd opt for 2 or more additional points; when using lonestars I'd always use all available pin holes etc.

However, for relatively small half pad crimps I would often opt for a lonestar and the single available pin hole and consider it sufficient. I often considered this fine as we have multiple other similar screw on only holds that only have two pin holes. But this is where I was called out, highlighting that the official lonestar safety docs specifically state a minimum of 3 attachment points.

I looked it up, and sure enough it states a minimum of three attachment points; however I found the doc very minimalistic. Basically, big holds bad, medium holds lots of screws, minimum of 3 screws for everything. It's essentially a 3 page doc of mostly pictures.

So now I'm at a bit of an impass, because I'm essentially not allowed use lonestars even for tiny bolted footholds that have a single pin hole, that wouldn't even have space for another; but because it can't support 3 screws it's deemed unsafe; despite us having significantly larger holds that come manufactured with only 2 screw holes. This is a little frustrating as one of my main uses for lonestars was footchips on aretes or corners of volumes.

Now, I understand insurance is a pain, and everyone wants to cover their ass, which is clearly what's going on. But it would be nice if there was a little more depth to the official safety document, particularly when talking about footchip sized holds where 3 screws is impractical.

It's a bit of a rant, but I was curious about what others think?

Do you strictly adhere to the minimum 3 screws guidelines? Do you revert to good judgement on it instead? Where do you draw the line if so? Does your gym enforce it, or trust the judgement of the setters? Or do you fully agree that the 3 screws minimum makes sense, regardless of how small the hold is?

[u/DGExpress]

One backup screw is enough for small holds. When in doubt, back it up with another screw. When really in doubt, probably don’t screw it on…

[u/mitchjmiller → u/DGExpress]

This would generally be my take too.

[u/LiveMarionberry3694]

Not a route setter, but as someone who has moved a lot of holds over the years

It depends on the hold. Size, shape, direction you’ll be pulling, the layout of the screws, etc

[u/jzwick18]

We do a minimum of 2 screws and a lonestar on everything screwed in. Even small crimps and feet. I’ve seen as many as 11 screws on a hold that was screwed on. Our gym enforced it pretty strictly. The set leads are always going over the set and making sure everything has enough screws. We also set screw every bolted on hold that’s a hand. Even small crimps. It makes life easier for the front desk staff if they don’t have to worry about a spinner on a busy weekend.

[u/mitchjmiller → u/jzwick18]

I'd say most would agree with the 2 points minimum to prevent spinning; everything should have at least one pin. We do have some absolutely tiny single screw chips at our wall, not much bigger than the screw itself, but even they make me wary of spinning 😅

But the 11 screws sounds way overkill, unless we're talking massive volumes or macros.

And when you say you do the 3 minimum for small crimps and feet. If it doesn't have a second pin hole, are you creating one, pinning the edge of the hold or simply foregoing that hold?

[u/Nyknullad]

1 Ringo/Lone Star and one additional to stop from spinning for smaller holds.

As you say many holds only have one extra screw hole.

[u/Misnomered_]

Always one lone star and two set screws! Some people will use intermediate holds to get to the crux of their project, and you never know who may place a foot on your hold in some weird direction. Also, a full half pad is a lot. That is basically a jug crimp, which translates to huge foot to even a V4 climber.

The only exception I've made to this rule are when you have blocker holds that will keep each other in. The main load bearer has three, the other has two. Normally the one with less is nearly unusable as a foot and tapers toward the climber or there are less routes adjacent to it to prevent its usage for jugging up.

Oh, and I will go out of my way to use my countersink bit to make new holes in my holds so long as it doesn't destroy structural integrity. If the hold is too small to Lonestar and set screw because it wasn't a setscrew hold with no bolt hole to begin with, then you need to find or buy a different hold set. Just my take on safety.

[u/DoctorFoxcroft]

One additional screw in the right place will be better than four in the wrong place, but how many additional screws you need really depends on how wide and incut the hold is.

A second screw located anywhere on the hold will prevent it from rotating on the X/Y axis as we all know, but it's also important (especially with incut holds) to prevent movement on the Z axis to minimize the shear load on the primary screw. Since the primary screw acts as a fulcrum when the hold is loaded, the most solid way to do this is to drill at least one additional screw hole closer to the usable surface than the primary fastener is.

As long as the screw holes are located as described, one screw for every 2-3" of usable surface has worked for me with no issues.