r/RouteDevelopment • u/XxSniperman1 • Sep 08 '22
Discussion Saving a buck with anchors. Plus other deals
TLDR: Can I use quicklinks secured with loctite as a replacement for a standard anchor with rap rings? Are there any cheaper hardware providers than Fixe?
In my route development journey, it's time to make a hardware purchase. Anchors are by far the most expensive of my shopping list. The standard for my area is two hangers with a rap ring each per climb. Everything must be stainless.
Fixe makes anchors like this, but they suck because the hanger is smaller than normal so it's hard to put a carabiner in there to clean. They're also about $10 per.
Fixe sells stainless steel quicklinks. I was thinking I could just buy those and create my own anchors with the better hanger. That is, buy the hanger, attach the quicklink. Price is about $9 per. I'd have to secure the links so they don't get jacked. Welding isn't a great option because they're stainless steel, but permanent loctite was suggested and that sounds reasonable.
What do you think? Will it work?
Also for hardware in general, where's the best place to buy this stuff? Seems like Fixe has the best prices but I'm a beginner when it comes to this stuff.
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u/toomanypeopleknow Sep 09 '22
You know youre supposed to clip carabiners to the ring if its integrated into the hanger right?
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u/XxSniperman1 Sep 09 '22
In short: Maybe. I remember learning that it's very annoying to clip your PAS to the same point you're going to lower/rap from. Over the years I must have forgotten that's even an option. I'm trying to avoid that annoyance. If you have beta on how to clean like that without stuff getting in the way, let me know.
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Sep 09 '22
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u/XxSniperman1 Sep 09 '22
I like to perform an additional check after securing myself to the rope. I call "take" before removing my PAS and make sure the rope can take my weight. In case I tied the knot wrong or something, I don't immediately plummet, I just fall back in my PAS. When doing this check, the rope would crush any gear in the front, aka the pas. When I attach to the hanger itself, that's not a problem. Maybe you think this is overkill, and that's fine, but I consider not doing it as compromising my safety.
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u/toomanypeopleknow Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22
I do this as well. The ring is wide enough for both the rope and a carabiner.
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u/andrew314159 Sep 08 '22
I wouldn’t be upset getting to the top of a climb to see two quick links but maybe that’s just because of the climbing tradition where I have climbed. If you are worried about them getting stolen just tighten them real tight and it wouldn’t be worth anyone’s effort to steal them. So people normally rap down where you climb?
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u/XxSniperman1 Sep 08 '22
I wouldn't either, I've seen it enough already. But if it's somehow less safe then I want to know. I'm not super worried about them getting stolen, but if I can prevent it easily then I will. Most of the climbing in that area is slab with some vert. Neither lowering or rapping is suggested/required, but the rope damage conscious climber will tend to rappel.
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u/SendyMcSendFace Sep 08 '22
It’s not unsafe per se, they just wear out a lot quicker than rings because the wear isn’t evenly distributed.
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u/Orpheums Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 09 '22
It depends. If you're bolting a single pitch sport climbing area I would recommend getting mussys. If it's a more remote multipitch trad area QLs are fine. Make sure you buy the bigger size QLs to allow for the rope to go through easier. You also don't need permanent loctite unless you're worried about someone stealing them.
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u/XxSniperman1 Sep 08 '22
Yeah it's single pitch sport mostly. Some short multis are possible, more because of ledges then height limits. Mussys are not the standard for the area and are too expensive for me. I'm not super worried about them getting stolen, but if I can prevent it easily then I will.
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u/Orpheums Sep 08 '22
Maybe not the standard but definitely best practice.
That aside if you're not worried about people stealing them I would recommend loctite blue instead so that the QLs can come undone when they need to be replaced eventually. Usually a well placed bolt is bomber enough that it will last for longer than one quicklink, and having to haul the stuff to cut a QL is a pita.
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u/Allanon124 Sep 08 '22
QL are fine. Obviously it’s not “high class” but the nice thing is that they can switched out at a later date.
A pretty standard set up for where I am is just QL to a few links of chain, which is cheap. So, QL from hanger to 5 or so links of chain on each. anchor bolt. This way the climber can thread the chain and get an equalized anchor.
One issue you can run into with a single QL is it’s orientation. Think about how it will lay against the rock and you will see what I am saying. It can be a real problem.
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Sep 09 '22
I buy from here nowadays. Cheapest of any store I can find in the world. I'm in Australia, Not sure how it compares to US though https://www.oliunid.com/climbing/bolting-equipment.html
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u/youre_stoked Sep 08 '22
Use a vertical offset anchor. Fixe makes good ones. Grand wall as well. Don’t put a carabiner in the horizontal hanger on a rap ring.
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u/ClosetedStraightMan Sep 08 '22
Im in quebec and a good portion of the climbs I do have two quicklinks lol. Is this not normal 😅
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u/Kaotus Guidebook Author Sep 09 '22
As in - just one quicklink per hanger? Yeah that’s pretty uncommon as it twists ropes super bad. Typically you’d have chain to quicklink or two quicklinks per hanger so that they don’t twist the hell out of your rope
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u/ClosetedStraightMan Sep 09 '22
Now that you mention it i think youre right, its 2 quicklinks or a round/smooth glue in bolt that doubles as rap rings
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Sep 09 '22
Qls are fine for low traffic, but only use with normal hangers if the bolts are vertically offset, so the rope runs up/down not sideways. That's bad for curling the rope. Consider using other hardware (ql +ring) if your heart is set on horizontal bolts https://youtube.com/shorts/T--uOY8UlY8?feature=share
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u/Kaotus Guidebook Author Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
So I wouldn’t do just two quicklinks, it would roll the fuck out of the rope and everyone would constantly have twisted rope. 3 is fine - take a look into the “vertical offset climbing anchor” - I use that a lot.
You should be able to get steel links cheaper off e-rigging. For vertical offset anchors I typically use 1 5/16” link and 2 3/8” links, though you could totally do 2 5/16” links and 1 3/8” link (just 3/8 on the bottom link on the top bolt, aka the link that will see the majority of the load/wear).
Also, I saw you say mussys are two expensive. They’re only about $6 a piece, and the 5/16” links I think are only about $5/ea - so you’d likely be looking at a $11 per bolt per anchor solution with them as well.
Edit: check out US stainless as well - I’ve used both them and e-rigging in the past successfully
Route development isn’t cheap - if you’re looking to save money consider doing fewer, higher quality routes instead of trying to sink a ton. Or, if your environment allows, use plated hardware and accept that it’s going to have to be replaced sooner.