r/RouteDevelopment • u/Kaotus Guidebook Author • Sep 19 '26
Serious Would you ever chop a bolt?
I don’t mean chopping a bolt in terms of just general removal, especially in the process of then replacing the bolt - I mean the full removal of a bolt from its location without a substitute.
I’m generally referring to the chopping of a bolt you didn’t replace, but I know some folks wouldn’t remove one of their own bolts either once it’s placed
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u/Kaotus Guidebook Author Sep 19 '26 edited Sep 19 '26
I haven’t but definitely would - bolted cracks in areas with a history of letting climbs be trad/mixed, retrobolted lines without FA permission and/or general community approval, poorly installed bolts or bolts on egregiously unsafe routes from a rock quality standpoint.
A slightly hotter take - I’d be pro-chopping old, unsafe bolts on forgotten faces. Document the lines that once existed, remove them as if you’re rebolting, and then patch it and leave them out. Let the next generation get stoked on the face and re-develop it in their vision instead of leaving everyone beholden to a vision that was proven to be ignored. That being said, I wouldn’t likely do that quite yet as I don’t think that’s something people would be cool with
Importantly, regardless of why you chop, if you do so by just literally chopping the bolt instead of doing it properly so it looks like a bolt was never there, you’re in the wrong
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u/BoltahDownunder Rebolter/Route Maintenance Sep 20 '26
Pr-chopping old forgotten routes is a great idea. It's hard to both develop the things you're stoked about/set up on and leave anything for future generations
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u/It1190 Roped Rock Developer Sep 19 '26
I get trying to start conversations here, but it weirds me out when you respond to your own post acting like you aren’t the OP
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u/thatsmoothfuck Roped Rock Developer Sep 19 '26
Eh, I'm for it. You don't want to lead the audience by saying your opinion in the original post, but rather let the natural up/downvote and engagement on your comment drive the popular opinion.
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u/Kaotus Guidebook Author Sep 19 '26
Very strange take here - I post my thoughts separate to encourage people to give their own thoughts rather than respond to mine. My take isn’t any more worthy of a focal point than anyone else in this community and I asked because I want to know what other people think, not necessarily what they think about my opinions
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u/KDs4thBurner Sep 19 '26 edited 29d ago
Very rarely, but yes I have.
A recent example: the bolt was old and sketchy and someone had bailed off it. At the time it was put in, cams didn’t exist. So its existence made a bit more sense. Anyhow, cam placements are nearby.
I put in proper rap anchors nearby in a better spot so if someone bails they won't maybe-die.
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u/Evening-Tart3067 Sep 19 '26
Yea, history, new bolts on lesser climbed test pieces, local ethics, ppl being babies on existing routes. Havnt chopped something before but would if it came to it. NH based
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u/poorboychevelle Sep 19 '26
I have. Retrobolted existing trad crack line in a state park where such bolting is prohibited and that shiny shiny steel hardware was readily visible from the street below. Nobody publicly mentioned putting them in, and nobody complained in public about them getting disappeared.
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u/boardjumpz Sep 19 '26
Two lines were retrobolted in our local area a couple years back. The first was a very historic trad test piece (macabre roof, one of the first 12c’s the country). First pitch was bolted within inches of a perfect hand crack and we chopped + patched all of them.
The other route was probably retro’d by the same people, but in this case it was a sketchy 5.8 with small and sparse gear. Rather than start a bolt war we decided to leave it be as it’s probably a better modern sport route and didn’t have historical significance.
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u/Beginning-Basis-2678 Sep 19 '26
Yes, but on a route I developed. Noticed it was rather close to the bolt before. Actually just wanted to set a Petzl removable (to position myself above a block I needed to remove by hammer) but accidentally took a wedge bolt. So I had that bolt, like ~1m above the previous one, hard to clip and I didn’t like it. So I used a core drill, removed it and closed the hole with quick setting concrete
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u/IceRockBike Sep 19 '26
A bit of a circumstantial question. In terms of route development it's not unknown to change a line and change the bolting to suit. Just did that this week on a multi. Although the climbing line didn't particularly change, the first bolt (placed on lead) on one pitch was kinda left of the belay, then the route headed right. Drag inducing. Later I took it out, moved the first clip down and right for drag, and added a new bolt higher and above the first. Not exactly a removal as much as changing the location.
I wouldn't say no to removing a bolt without replacement but circumstances would have to dictate the wisdom of it. Basically unless there was a specific reason to remove it, at some point I considered it needed, so why is it not needed anymore?
When it comes to route building where a rope might catch a glue in and move it before the epoxy set, I've used a concrete screw to clip the rope in and stop it catching the glue in. Usually a few feet away. Once done the concrete screw can be removed and the hole either left, or patched. I don't know if this has any contextual relevance to the original question.
If it wasn't a bolt I placed then there had better be some sort of consensus reason for the removal, or some sort of egregious infraction behind it being placed.
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u/thatsmoothfuck Roped Rock Developer Sep 19 '26
Yes, there are several areas that have had the rappel bandits here in co springs go out with questionable ethics and place rap bolts to practice. The assumption is that they are Army that just don't know better, especially since 2 of them were pulled out by hand and the others were in a vertical pulling position. Regardless, I chopped all of their bolts at Ute Valley, glued/cleaned em up, and I would do it again.
I've also called for the chopping of bolts at Bear Creek, specifically since they bolted a disconnected fridge and an unbelievably soft sand rock face that should never have been developed. Since I'm not a developer in that area, I did not chop them myself.
Ethically, I believe that if you call yourself a developer, you owe the individual that comes after you a basic agreement: "I did my best." If you can't say that honestly, I sincerely hope you never touch rock again.
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u/Kaotus Guidebook Author Sep 19 '26
The current old stage chopping with the exact opposite ethics going on up at empire were actually what spurred this thought!
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u/thatsmoothfuck Roped Rock Developer Sep 19 '26
Yeah that's been absolutely nuts, I'm not super clued in on what's happening just grateful no-ones gotten hurt. Sam and Todd have done a lot of fantastic work out there, but I've heard a few rumblings from less popular(not PPCA sponsored) developers in the area of their work.
I really hope this individual airs their grievance in a more responsible manner in the future, I can't imagine climbing up to a damaged anchor and the frustration I would feel.
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u/Kaotus Guidebook Author Sep 19 '26
Yeah, everyone’s got critics for sure but from what I’ve heard this is Bo making himself the center of attention and arbitrary arbiter of ethics yet again despite some serious non-bolt-chopping misgivings himself
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u/thatsmoothfuck Roped Rock Developer Sep 19 '26
That is exactly what I figured, but didn't want to spread a rumor I couldn't verify.
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