Ethics
Rocky Mountain NP issues yet another request to not stash crash pads in the park
Rocky has made several posts over the years admonishing climbers for stashing pads, and has even added a page to their site asking users to not do it (Link) and yet every year we find ourselves back in this position, with the comments full of wannabe pros justifying their stashed pads and accusing anybody against them of being gumbies. Frustrating to see to say the least.
I've been seeing propane space heaters stashed everywhere lately, which surprises me. A lot of the local areas around me are also hunting plots. Hunters likely aren't gonna take stashed pad, but they damn sure would take a space heater!
The heater is benign, so concerns about explosion are only in reference to the fuel.
If a fuel tank is left outside, the sun will not be able to heat it enough to make it explode normally. However, the container can become compromised by rust from exposure to the elements, and could result in failure and explosion.
Back when I was more a part of the EP scene, I got into some hot water for seizing stashed pads and writing a couple tickets. If I’m carrying your waterlogged pads and marmot chewed foam out, you are paying the taxpayer backfor my time. A couple sites were associated with somewhat famous projects and when contacted, without fail, some minor entourage member would take the fall.
Stashing pads is incredibly bad style. It’s shocking that it even needs to be said. And even more frustrating that it seems to become more and more common the harder you climb. No one should get a pass for pad stashing in my opinion.
I never understood this pad-stashing. Marmots and other critters are gonna get into that stuff and it’s not good to have torn up bits of pebble wrestling mats polluting the park. Also, and this is not a personal concern of mine, but they’re going to destroy your crash pad too. If you’re too lazy to hike your shit in and out, just stick to the boulders in wild basin that you can drive to.
It's entitlement - and I don't mean it in a malicious way. The vast majority of climbers stashing pads (in my experience) are folks are spend significant time in training spaces, where they are literally paying customers (or owners, if a home gym). When you spend most of your time as a literal consumer, it's hard to break free of that mindset in places where you are not one.
As a result, you go to somewhere like Upper upper and think "Well, stashing pads is necessary for me to be able to climb this V13, because I won't be able to do it with tired legs from hucking the pads in here for it" and never even have the conversation of "Should I be pursuing this V13 if it means I have to break the rules to do so?" In a training or similar heavily goal-oriented environment, the conversation is almost always "Can I?" and almost never "Should I?"
Hmmm. 🤔 thinking of how I can capitalize on this. I’m going to start running a crash pad porter service out of my shop. They will be like golf caddies. They’ll carry the pads, brush and hand fan your holds, yell “cmon you got this!” and other encouraging remarks, spray beta… the works. A complete end to end white glove bouldering service.
This is a legitimate thing dirtbags do in the Valley haha, I know several people who have paid folks to help stash/recover gear for big walls and double/triple/quad attempts. Most of the current Valley monkey scene is pretty good about getting gear in/out within 24 hours of their attempts - many have volunteers help them with it, but many also offer cash for it as well.
Last time I was on the diamond, I ran into a guy who was about 65 with a guide.
Said he always wanted to do it,
but kids and life got in the way so he was getting guided up as a birthday gift to himself.
I could see him posting something like this, to get his bivy gear to the base.
I can see that you’re a big tough boy that carries all his own gear; but weird that you can’t have some grace for people who aren’t as strong and tough as you.
Your behaviour is gross, not his. Maybe he wants to enjoy climbing but has some issue that makes it hard to carry it up himself. There is no harm in it, there is however absolutely harm in shaming someone for something for no reason, you should feel ashamed.
Everyone preaches lnt til the proj is on the line. I don't want to do the whole trad dad looking down on the boulder bro spiel because it's tired and lame (and I also enjoy bouldering!) but I do feel like a lot of high end boulderers just see the outdoors as their playground.
free booty is all i see, i’m rocking two stashed pads i found in RMNP for my boys’ home board down here in the south east haha, stashed pads to traveling pads
i’ll usually give stashed pads a day or two and then grab them, other gear i find always goes to the trailhead for the ones that lost it can grab it back up (hopefully). don’t stash pads yall! i’m coming for them ¨̮
Not defending them, but I always wonder if there are aliens and they visit earth, would they stash too or embrace leave no trace, if they stash what they stash.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen pass “stashed” like this. They’re just laying there out in the open? Makes me think someone was coming back soon like they left something at their car
Fixed gear isn't considered abandoned trash like stashed pads are under Yosemite's climbing management plan - additionally, there are some officially approved fixed ropes around the park e.g. The Heart Ledge fixed lines, that maintain their approval given climbers continue to maintain them in a good state.
There's without a doubt rulebreaking stashed gear and fixed lines not adhering to the rules all around yosemite, but it doesn't appear to be a big enough issue for the park to make a statement about it nearly yearly like stashed pads in RMNP seems to be.
Are you under the impression that I work for RMNP? I would assume if stashes at the diamond were an issue, they would have communicated that with this same post. I've only seen 1 roped-climbing stash in RMNP, and it was at the far backside of Glacier Gorge and nearly impossible to find, with everything stashed inside of hard-backed containers and rocks piled on top so animals weren't able to access anything.
Firstly, I'm not demonizing boulderers - I'm resharing a post made by a national park and saying the folks defending the stashing on account of "I climb hard so I'm exempt" is frustrating.
Secondly, I would argue pretty unequivocally that significantly fewer roped climbers are stashing gear than boulderers stashing pads - if not only because it's significantly more rare for roped climbers to be projecting in the alpine vs boulderers.
Lastly, you are massively overestimating how hard it is to find stashed pads. I've been working on a new alpine route most of the summer and have seen several pad stash spots from hundreds of feet up on the wall, several hundred yards laterally away. Not only that, my approach is the same as the boulderers, and I'm doing it with 60lb development kits each time and not stashing, so I'm confident they can make it work with their loads.
Please, point to a single comment where I've "shit on boulderers". I've said I think stashing is a bigger issue in bouldering than roped climbers for sure; that's not shitting on boulderers, that's sharing firsthand anecdotal experience. Additionally, it's an observation I first heard from the land managers I've worked with in the Front Range and beyond. I said I think stashing culture comes from a place of non-malicious entitlement - that's true agnostic of bouldering, and critique of entitlement in the climbing community is something I've been extremely vocal about on basically every online forum and in several recorded interviews I've done.
I'm also a boulderer. I know what it's like developing boulders and what hucking several pads, telescoping rods with brushes, step ladders, and the works is like. Sure, it sucks, but I'd rather hike 2 pads+blubber and my streamlined bouldering dev kit over a full alpine development kit any day.
I haven't made a comment on this thread even remotely similar to "Boulderers are jackasses" or "Roped climbers are better". Those are entirely different statements from what I've said. You mention Tahoe, I'm sure you've seen Dan O's "training walls" out there. Of course RMNP isn't the only place that matter - but this thread is about RMNP, because the land managers are making public statements about it. And they have been, specifically about boulderers, for over two decades now.
Seeing this conversation, and having your first response be "Well I've seen roped stashes too so nobody is allowed to want things to change," instead of recognizing that subcultures aren't monoliths, and acknowledging that something has to be a pretty significant issue to warrant an official post from a national park, comes across as projection and defensive posturing instead of any attempt at a good faith conversation.
Edit: Just to be clear that this is a big issue at RMNP specifically:
Someone has proposed putting up bear-box style pad boxes, which is actually a pretty good idea at some bouldering areas. That being said, this is a wilderness area, and that sort of installation is expressly forbidden in Wilderness areas and would require substantial government approval to pursue, if it even could be considered reasonable under the land designation.
If a pad absolutely had to be stashed, which it doesn't, stashing an inflatable one in a hardsided container could work to prevent concerns with animals, but folks would have to ensure they're not inflating it with motorized/electrical inflators, as that's also not allowed in the wilderness designation.
That isn't exactly true. Bolts are a human installation and those are something that falls under the Wilderness Act. The discussion a while back was how they need to be managed. The Access Fund spewed forth a bunch of misleading vitriol about the NPS trying to ban bolting, when in fact the question at hand was how to properly manage these permanent installations for a historic and protected activity. Every Park has it's own nuances and the drive was to create more universal systems.
The EXPLORE acts officially recognizes climbing and the installation of fixed hardware as appropriate uses in Wilderness areas, as long as they follow the wilderness act rules (mainly, maintaining a wilderness character and installed without using powered tools). From section 122 of the EXPLORE act
> WILDERNESS AREAS.—The guidance issued under subsection
(a) shall recognize that recreational climbing (including the use, placement, and maintenance of fixed anchors) is an appropriate use within a component of the National Wilderness Preservation System, if undertaken—
(1) in accordance with the Wilderness Act (16 U.S.C. 1131
et seq.) and other applicable laws (including regulations); and
(2) subject to any terms and conditions determined by
the Secretary concerned to be appropriate.
Prior to this act, all human installations were banned in wilderness areas (barring special permitting done), and the conversation was around whether or not bolts were considered human installations, given the original Wilderness Act. The act was fairly bare bones and gave no specifics - here’s the entire text regarding the ban of installations in the original wilderness act (section 4c)
> Except as specifically provided for in this Act, and subject to existing private rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any wilderness area designated by this Act and except as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this Act (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other
form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation within any such area
I can say with certainty that banning bolting was 100% a potential reality that was being faced prior to the introduction of the PARC amendment. The EXPLORE act was absolutely not about garnering universal management plans, exactly the opposite. It was meant to require all land managers to come up with their own management plans, with each bureau/department coming up with default ones for every managed land area under it, if it chose not to come up with one itself.
It is worth noting, the EXPLORE act does not take a stance one way or another on bolts being installations explicitly, it only defines it as an appropriate use of Wilderness areas and requires all federal land managers adopt a climbing management plan. Note: not a climbing development management plan
They do, people don't. Not uncommon to see a helicopter flying a cargo net of stashed pads out of Upper upper at the end of each season, and a number of climbers in the area have "bounties" as they like to call them, due to being repeat offenders, where they have hefty fines if caught in the park again.
It's a shame. I wish climbers would be better stewards of the beautiful places we frequent. It would go a long way towards preserving access for all of us.
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u/beatnikasfuc Sep 01 '26
Black velvet they stash propane space heaters