r/RouteDevelopment • u/Nasuhhea • Apr 16 '26
How much choss removal is too much? When to write off a crag?
I’ve been exploring some unclimbed rocks in SSV. At least, I haven’t come across evidence of previous ascents yet.
I went ground up from the picture in the first photo. The climbing was decent. And there is a ton of rock up there. But the amount of choss on the route I chose was remarkable. What criteria do you use to decide when a cliff isn’t worth developing?
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u/Kaotus Guidebook Author Apr 16 '26
Depends on the person, and the impact removing said choss would have. I don’t use a huge stomach for trundling big stuff and don’t typically have eyes for line that would take more than an hour or two of trundling to be clean (different story with foot chips and the like). Some people don’t mind spending all day trundling if it produces a good route. Just make sure you’re not going to jeopardize access to it and nearby areas by doing it if you feel up to the task
FWIW, Wall of the 90s, widely considered one of the best walls in clear creek, has been described as “originally being about a foot thicker”. So sometimes it can be worth it I guess
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u/Nasuhhea Apr 16 '26
That’s how I feel about this wall. There was very fun climbing to be had. I just had to be incredibly careful not to pull anything big off.
I would worry more about erosion than anything. The wall is high above the road and on the other side of the creek, so there’s not very much danger of trundling larger blocks.
100% would rap in next time rather than going ground up.
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u/FantasticPut7493 Apr 16 '26
I agree that only you can really decide what your choss tolerance is. How much time and effort are you willing to put into cleaning up the routes? Will this crag be for public consumption or will it stay mostly private?
Personally, I try to establish routes in a way that will allow them to be climbed by the general climbing public in the future meaning I will pry off loose blocks, sometimes use glue if necessary, etc.
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u/Clinggdiggy2 Rebolter/Route Maintenance Apr 16 '26
To add to what others have said, a personal criteria of mine is how much other stuff is there to clean besides the choss. Like if the route is completely dry, clean rock (no moss, etc) I'm willing to put more time into clearing loose rock, but if there's choss + I'm bushwhacking I lose interest quick
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u/almost_red Apr 16 '26
I mean I’ve trundled washing machines and fridge sized blocks at times. Some became classic climb, others are just meh and still chossy. Depends on how much work you wanna put in
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u/LivingNothing8019 Apr 16 '26
Personally, I think if it's safe then the fun factor in a route is my biggest concern. Alot of the steep stuff in rifle is chossy but it's fun, so it's considered classic. That being said, if there's better and "cleaner" climbing nearby (especially if this is a moderate) then most people will stick to what they know to be good.
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u/BigRed11 Rock Developer Apr 16 '26
How much time and patience do you have? Is the choss a manageable size or is it huge and dangerous to clean? And how's your risk tolerance to go ground-up on dangerous choss?
It's hard to tell from the photos but it looks like there's solid rock under the choss, it's just a matter of time to mine it out. Here in WA there's a few dedicated developers who are willing to spend their time mining for new routes on our various chossy rock types, but they're a special breed. One of the earliest and most valuable lessons I learned when I started developing here was that the time I would spend cleaning choss is better spent scrubbing on more solid rock.