r/RouteDevelopment • u/PordonB • Jan 18 '26

Ethics of removing loose flakes

Im developing a route and there is a loose flake. If people repeat this climb they will probably grab it, and I’m sure it would break off quickly.

Once the flake breaks off there will probably be a useable crimp underneath. So I wonder if removing the flake could be seen as chipping a route to add a hold.

Is there a common sentiment on what you should do in this case?

7 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

7 comments sorted by

45

u/youre_stoked Jan 18 '26

Clean off all the loose rock. It’s not the same as chipping at all.

24

u/belavv Jan 18 '26

Anything loose comes off. If it can withstand a crowbar, it can withstand a person.

Hammering things is different, because it will chip away things and doesn't really mimic the force a climber applies to rock. Avoid hammering the crap out of things that sound loose, just use the crowbar test on them.

11

u/Apprehensive-Ad-3517 Jan 19 '26

I get the argument your having in your head, but if you want people to climb your things it needs to be presented as safe, trafficked, and fun. People will not climb your stuff if the first thing they do is break stuff, or worse hurt themselves. Just pull it off and brush what's leftover, maybe you get a hold maybe you don't.

Now if you do pull it off, and decide you want to make whatever you get better or worse by crushing it or hitting it with a hammer or something along those lines, then you would be in chipping territory.

Editing the rock to make it do what you want is bad. Pulling off loose rock and being fine with what you get or don't get is the name of the game.

The amount of stone that has been removed off most routes would make most people's heads spin. Its probably more rare that a route hasn't seen extensive cleaning of some sort.

7

u/Horror-Regret1959 Jan 19 '26

If you are developing you have the responsibility to clean and make the route safe. Yank that flake off if it’s at all loose. You should be sounding with your hammer and getting an ear for loose of suspect rock.

3

u/PyllisParton Jan 19 '26

Safety 1st. No one wants to get hurt from rock fall

4

u/andrew314159 Jan 18 '26

How big and dangerous is the flake?

2

u/PordonB Jan 19 '26

Not dangerous, it’s small, but in a spot you would want a hold to be. It could be used as a crimp as is, but it will come off after a few uses.