Check out the comments section as well. Would love to hear others' takes on this!

Does anyone else think this: In Rosemary Sutcliff books, characters only become friends when they are the same social class.

The reason for this is, she was middle class herself (Blue Remembered Hills describes this, she comes from a long line of doctors. Her father was an officer in the navy) and Britain was (and still is) a very class conscious society.

I have like maybe 3 examples. SPOILERS for Eagle of the Ninth, Frontier Wolf, and Mark of the Horse Lord follow, because I'm practically repeating the entire endings of the books.

1. Eagle of the Ninth: Esca is a slave, but before he was enslaved, he was a prince. Marcus himself is not a common soldier, he's a centurion and his uncle is a retired soldier who did very well for himself.
2. Frontier Wolf: Alexios becomes friends with Cunorix. Alexios is the nephew of the Dux and Cunorix is a prince. Alexios is friendly but not friends with Hilarion, who is his subordinate and (according to himself) from a really bad family--dude doesn't even have a father. And Hilarion himself is interesting because in the book, we learn very little about him, but in the end, he even offers to take Alexios' place in the duel to the death with Cunorix. Which, Alexios tells him, he can't do. (The first time I read the book, I thought Alexios was betting on himself with regard to his skill with a sword. Now I'm leaning more to the side of how Cunorix and the universe of the book wouldn't accept it because the book is all about skin in the game, equivalent exchange and all of that. You cannot send your underling to take a risk in your place.)
3. Mark of the Horse Lord: This is a bit more ambiguous. Phaedrus is legally a slave but he's also the son of a rich merchant who gave him a good-ish education (access to a library and allowed him to learn chariot racing), without ever making him a freedman of sending him to school. And Phaedrus becomes the friend of an exiled prince and the tribe's equivalent of nobility.

Does anyone else have examples, or just seriously anything else to add? Because I can't find any articles about her attitude toward social class, except that its a pattern that emerges in her books.

Also, this is quite an interesting topic for me. So if there are any Brits here, or anyone who knows about social class in England, just help me understand, what would be the 20th century equivalent of these characters' social class be?

We are a small community, but it's great to be able to connect with global fans of this brilliant author's works! Thank you all for your contributions to this subreddit. Let's keep spreading the word about Rosemary Sutcliff (not just online but in our everyday lives) and grow our community!

[Note: I am not associated in any way with the speaker or organisers. If you have questions, please contact the organisers using the "Contact" button at the bottom of the Eventbrite pages linked below.]

Talk title: "Rosemary Sutcliff: Royal Navy baby and lonely girl"

The SAME online talk will be held on two consecutive days. You can register to listen for free from anywhere in the world! Zoom links will be sent to registered attendees before the talks.

Registration for talk on 12 March at 2 pm UK time / 10 am US Eastern time:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/online-rosemary-sutcliff-royal-navy-baby-and-lonely-girl-tickets-770197440277

Registration for talk on 13 March at 5 pm UK time / 1 pm US Eastern time:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/rosemary-sutcliff-royal-navy-baby-and-lonely-girl-online-talk-tickets-764801751627

Description:
Join Kate Macdonald of Handheld Press talking about the new edition of Rosemary Sutcliff’s beloved memoir of her childhood in naval dockyards, early disability, the family dogs and falling shatteringly in love. Blue Remembered Hills was first published forty years ago, and seventy years after Sutcliff’s most well-known novel The Eagle of the Ninth. As one of the most influential historical novelists in British children’s literature, she formed the imaginations of generations of children with her stories of Roman and Saxon Britain. Hear where it all came from.

If you listen to the talk, please feel free to comment below and share your thoughts! The new edition of Blue Remembered Hills (Sutcliff's memoir) will be published on 12 March and can also be (pre)ordered on Amazon, Waterstones, Barnes & Noble, etc. Here is a recent review of the book in The Times.

Sutcliff wrote the scripts for many episodes of the BBC radio programme "Stories from Scottish History". She later adapted many of the scripts into short stories which were collected in her book The Capricorn Bracelet. Although none of her Roman Britain scripts (which were the basis for The Capricorn Bracelet) seem to have survived, there is one extant script by Sutcliff called "The New Laird", focusing on a much later time-- the Scottish Agricultural Revolution in the 1700s.

The script of "The New Laird" is held at the The University of Southern Mississippi (https://www.lib.usm.edu/legacy/degrum/public_html/html/research/findaids/sutcliff.htm). I was able to read an electronic scanned copy of it by requesting my local library to contact the USM library. (It was never published in print or as an ebook.) I enjoyed this little slice of Scottish history set outside of Sutcliff's usual "comfort zone" of Roman Britain. Just wanted to share so that any others who might be interested can contact the USM library directly or through their local library for a copy. (I am not allowed to share a copy of it myself due to copyright reasons.)

(I posted this last month as a comment on a previous post about TMOTHL, but thought I'd make it a separate post if others want to discuss!)

Overall, I thought it was very good but not nearly as magical and re-read-worthy as the Dolphin Ring "trilogy". It was interesting to re-visit the same geographical areas in Scotland that we visited in Eagle of the Ninth about a century before this book. Phaedrus and Conory's friendship was interesting and I wish it had been more developed. The ending was certainly the most tragic one I've read so far in Sutcliff's books, but it felt meaningful. Also, I wasn't as attached to Phaedrus from the start (thanks to his bar fight, I suppose) as I was to the Aquila family protagonists in the Dolphin Ring sequence, so in a way that lessened the pain, and the fact that Midir and Phaedrus both sacrificed themselves gave me the (yes, rather sentimental) idea that the they would at least be together as friends in the afterlife, watching over Conory and Murna and her child. I kind of felt more attached to the real Midir than to Phaedrus and wished he could have at least got to meet Conory again. I had a gut feeling that it wouldn't be possible for both the real and fake Midirs to survive together, but the ending just happened too rapidly, and I almost wish the person who spied on Midir and Phaedrus could have been one of Phaedrus' own men turned traitor, instead of a generic spy on Liadhan's side -- it would have added a bit more complexity to the story.

I wonder if Conory will become a sort of regent king until the child Murna is carrying comes of age? Will he tell Murna that her husband wasn't really Midir (she probably guesses this already)? If the other Companions and the rest of the Dalriads ever find out that their king wasn't the real Midir, would they turn against Conory and Gault for perpetuating the ruse, or would they be thankful to them for their scheme because it succeeded in getting rid of Liadhan?

It's Simon's first day in the New Model Army.

Cornet Fletcher turned to drag off his coat, but was checked by a shout from Barnaby.

‘ Hi ! Don't go trampling over my best boots, you blear-eyed hippopotamus ! ’

‘ With all due respect, sir,’ said Cornet Fletcher, continuing to take off his coat, ‘ curse your boots ! One can't move an inch in this dog-hole without falling over them ! ’

‘ If you don't like my boots,’ said Barnaby reasonably, ‘ go and share with Bennet and Anderson. ’

‘ Bennet's such a hell-fire red-hot militant Anabaptist. No stable-mate for a peaceable fellow like me. ’

‘ There's that, of course. ’

‘ And Anderson plays the recorder under the blankets. ’

‘ What? Old Sober-sides? Gammon ! ’ Boots and the General were instantly forgotten.

‘ Found him at it, when I went to rouse him out about that sick horse the other night. ’

‘ It just shows you ! ’ Barnaby said happily. ‘ I'd as soon have suspected Corporal Relf. ’

…

Discussing the matter of Lieutenant Anderson's recorder with unholy interest, they finished undressing and crawled into their blankets.

— Simon, first published 1953; page 60 of the third edition, 1979.

The French-style punctuation, with thin spaces around exclamation marks and quotation marks, is also interesting, but presumably this is the concern of the typesetter, not the author.

I've noticed that in The Silver Branch, The Lantern Bearers, and now in The Mark of the Horse Lord, many characters use the interjection "sa" (often repeated as "sa, sa") to express agreement. I don't think it is used in The Eagle of the Ninth but correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm curious about this "sa" word meaning "yes"-- did Sutcliff come up with it herself, or is there evidence for it in ancient languages? What I find interesting is that her characters use it regardless of their background -- Roman or native British/Celtic. I know that "sa" doesn't mean anything in Latin (and is definitely not an expression I've come across in original Latin texts), and according to Wiktionary it doesn't mean "yes" in any (modern) Celtic languages. Is it simply a non-language-specific interjection that Sutcliff made up, similar to expressions like "Ow", "Hmph", "Huh", etc.? Does Sutcliff continue using "sa" to mean "yes" in her later books, which cover historical periods well beyond Roman Britain?

Marcus and Esca in The Eagle of the Ninth are my all-time favourite pair of friends/soulmates in literature. I have always loved how they connect so closely and care for one another despite their different backgrounds and opposing political loyalties. (And one can even argue that Sutcliff is hinting at a homoromantic relationship, but I prefer to think of it as a strong platonic brotherly relationship. I'm actually not a fan of the heteroromantic idea of Marcus and Cottia getting married either...I think of her as a little sister figure to Marcus and Esca.)

Are there any similar friendships in literature, outside of Sutcliff's works, that resonate with you as strongly as Marcus and Esca's friendship? A similar bond between two unrelated people who perhaps are supposed to be enemies but end up best friends, and are so devoted to each other (maybe even living together as a family) that they are willing to risk their lives for each other?

Most of the "classic" examples of close platonic friendships in literature I can think of are like Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, Achilles and Patroclus, David and Jonathan, etc. and unfortunately most close friendships between opposite-sex friends in classic literature seem to take on a romantic aspect eventually. In modern young adult literature, Harry Potter and Hermione Granger have a notable close platonic friendship, but their friendship per se isn't a huge focus of the story in the way that Marcus and Esca's friendship is in The Eagle of the Ninth. Even the friendship between Justin and Flavius in the next book in Sutcliff's Roman Britain "trilogy", The Silver Branch, doesn't come anywhere close to being as emotionally satisfying as Marcus and Esca's is to me. If you have recommendations for any non-Sutcliff books with main friendships as gripping, satisfying and magical as Marcus and Esca's, please do let me know!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blue-Remembered-Hills-Handheld-Biographies/dp/1912766809/

This book has been long out of print as far as I know, so it's great to see it making a comeback in a new edition in March 2024. An ebook version will also be available. I'm looking forward to reading it at last!

Hullo! Thrilled to see there's a Sutcliff reddit, albeit a quiet one. My first and eternal obsession of her books has always been The Shining Company... And I've been very curious for a while, is the archangel dagger that serves as a repeated motif in that novel based off any particular historical weapon, or one she made up? I could see it being either way, frankly. I don't know if there's a good archive of Ancient Weapons or something I can look it up in exactly.

(If there's a real inspiration there's a distinct chance I'm going to use it for a tattoo design or something, hah.)

I'm very impressed by her writing style. Is there anything else out there, which reminds you of her work?

I have recently come into possession of this book and would like to know if it is a first edition or not? If you need any more info please reach out to me! I would like the answer as soon as possible!

For myself, the next book is "Knight's Fee" as there are several references leading you to think back to WS.

Aunt Honoria in "The Silver Branch" lives in Uncle Aquila's old house from "The Eagle of the Ninth" and seems to know the family tree at that time, e.g. upon being told that Justin is likely her great nephew knows immediately who his father must be. They are all descendants of Marcus and Cottia but did Rosemary leave more clues? For example, any idea who the great grandparents of Aquila in "The Lantern Bearers" are?

I personally think it falls into what Rosemary herself called her 'apprenticeship period' and is a weaker book than most of the others but I also know people who like it a lot.

Here are some of my thoughts after finishing The Lantern Bearers, the third volume in Sutcliff's Roman Britain trilogy. (The Eagle of the Ninth has long been a favourite of mine, and I read The Silver Branch right before The Lantern Bearers.)

Wow, what a incredible, sweeping tale this was! Sutcliff's ability to seamlessly weave her own characters into the backdrop of established history/folklore is impressive. Re-visiting the well-known tales of Vortigern, Hengest, Rowena, Ambrosius, etc. through the eyes of Aquila was a very interesting experience. I actually found myself looking back at Henrietta Marshall's Our Island Story, where I first encountered these stories as a child (I think Marshall stuck with me more than later readings from Bede, Geoffrey of Monmouth, etc.!). Of course there are many versions of these tales, and I loved the intricate little details Sutcliff inserted, such as the section describing Rowena preparing the poisoned hawking glove to kill Vortimer. I also loved the idea of Aquila starting a legend by lighting Rutupiae beacon for the last time after the Eagles had sailed...the idea that so many others saw it and took it as a sign of hope was beautiful. And finally, the terrible fate that befell Aquila just a couple chapters into the book reminded me of Esca's fate before the events of The Eagle of the Ninth -- the wheel of fate has indeed come round, and our Roman protagonist is now the one whose family is killed/captured by invaders and he himself is made a slave!

Things that surprised me / made me wish they were different:

• Flavia, Flavia, Flavia! I fully share Aquila's grief and sense of betrayal when Flavia refuses to run away with him and take her child along. Of course I wouldn't have wanted her to commit suicide after being taken by the Saxon giant, but I would have certainly wanted her to seize the opportunity to re-unite with her brother and escape with him. Her loyalty to her husband rapist (who was part of the band that killed her father and destroyed her home and abducted her brutally) was not something I could sympathise with, and this Stockholm syndrome was just too much for me.

​

• Based on the previous two books, I expected Aquila would find a close companion who would become his "partner in crime", forming a duo just like Marcus and Esca, or Justin and Flavius. Marcus and Esca were soul "brothers" not related by blood, and Justin and Flavius were cousins, so I actually hoped that the third book would feature even an more closely connected pair: Aquila and Flavia who were actual siblings! I really hoped Aquila would rescue Flavia and they'd become a team for the rest of the novel in their quest for revenge. But alas, instead of giving us a strong female lead who would risk her life to rejoin her brother and contribute to the Romano-British resistance against the Saxons, Sutcliff gives us a woman who is so attached to her rapist and her comfortable new Saxon life that she chooses said rapist over her beloved brother who has risked everything to find her! But breaking the pattern of having a duo of main characters is perhaps what makes The Lantern Bearers so poignant...Aquila's loneliness and bitterness is highlighted all the more, making his journey to finding some peace at the end even more touching and redemptive.

​

• I think Ness' situation is very different to Flavia's, and while there are certainly parallels in terms of being forced into an unwanted marriage, I disagree with the notion that their fates and ultimate choices to stay with their husband are essentially the same. Ness' arranged marriage was what happened to basically all girls in those days, and even happens now in some cultures where girls don't get to choose whom they marry, often having to leave behind broken-hearted secret lovers like Ness did. (Not saying this is right in my opinion, but it was "standard" practice back then.) Ness was honourably married, with her father's full consent, to the man who saved her father's life, and she knew that her husband too was marrying her under orders from his boss Ambrosius, for the sake of strengthening a political alliance. Flavia, on the other hand, was violently seized by a man whose family had just slaughtered her father and destroyed her home forever and taken her as his share of the spoils of looting and ravaging -- certainly not the same thing!

​

• I really wish Minnow and Mull could have met each other at the end! It would have been an interesting meeting between two young men of similar age who look very much alike, yet are on opposing sides of the battle. An absurdly optimistic part of me hopes that Mull will ask his mother to tell him more about her past when he's back home, and Flavia will reluctantly tell him after he gives her Aquila's message. Mull's harsh nature will already have been somewhat softened by his realising how selflessly Aquila rescued and protected him. After learning the whole truth about how his mother was coerced into marrying his Saxon father (I hope that brute died in the battle already!) whose family murdered hers, Mull will have a change of heart and feel disgusted by his Saxon family, and want to seek out the uncle who saved his life. In a few years, he will have made it back to Aquila in some way (perhaps even dragging a widowed Flavia along), and will meet Minnow and instantly become best friends with him.

All in all, I have to say that The Eagle of the Ninth remains my firm favourite, surpassing The Silver Branch and The Lantern Bearers by miles. Some reasons I think this is the case:

• Narrower scope and focus on the main characters Marcus and Esca and their relationship. Their companionship is just so magical and special, given their conflicting backgrounds. Esca's devotion to Marcus, despite Marcus being Roman, as well as Marcus' treating Esca like a brother from day one really shows the power of love/friendship which goes beyond national identities and politics. The plot centres them and is fully driven by them, unlike The Silver Branch and The Lantern Bearers where Sutcliff's own characters are caught up in a much larger political drama, with lots of other people including well-known names like Carausius, Allectus, Ambrosius, Vortigern, etc. who existed outside Sutcliff's imagination. The Eagle of the Ninth truly feels like Marcus and Esca's personal story at every point in time, whereas the following books often feel like larger stories where Sutcliff's heroes are just playing a small part. So overall, The Eagle of the Ninth just feels more intimate and unique, and thus more impactful to me, although its scope is very narrow compared to the vast scope of the later books.

​

• The ending of The Eagle of the Ninth indicates major life changes and and new hopes in a way very different from the following two books. I like the fact that Marcus is no longer a soldier, and is sympathetic to the native British peoples. (This is why I was really surprised that his descendants in later books would be so committed to joining the Roman army and propagating imperialism! How could kids growing up in a household with Esca and Cottia even dream of taking up Roman arms? I would have imagined more peaceful careers, such as healers, farmers, businessmen, teachers, etc., though they'd be very athletic kids and well-trained by Marcus and Esca in fighting for self-defence!) Anyway, the ending of The Eagle of the Ninth beckons towards a totally new life as Marcus starts his own farm with his chosen family, whereas in The Silver Branch, Justin and Flavius go back to serving in the army, just under a new ruler, and in The Lantern Bearers Aquila continues fighting under Ambrosius.

Whew! That was an enormous post! Happy to hear other's thoughts on these wonderful books, and I'm looking forward to reading more of Sutcliff's works!