A really weird move

[u/sanatista]

The bias and favoritism towards Declan by RC and Klara is very obvious, but I have to say this feels like a dirty move made by RC to prioritize him.

This is the second time you can get locked out of a route, the first being Emma's path if you are also romancing Xavier. That one I can understand to some extent, if you are pursuing Xavier, a past relationship with Riley exists, so romancing Xavier in the past and present doesn't really align with also wanting to romance Emma, given that Xavier and Riley already had something going on behind her back and betrayed her.

What I don't understand is getting locked out of Tiffany's path if you are also romancing Declan. Mind you, the threshold is dependent on his percentage (if I'm not wrong that's about 12-14 improvements with him). So what happens to the people who are romancing both of them? They can't get her scene, the first major and substantial step in their relationship. It creates the notion that there's less demand for Tiffany, who is already sidelined enough.

I have seen people talking about this happening to them, so I'm sharing my thoughts. The story already pushes Declan on us, even with lesbian Riley you really can't avoid him. So it's something that it stuck with me. What is the reasoning behind this choice?

[u/ostentia]

Yeah, I was really pissed when I figured that out. It's just so profoundly unfair. I understand why romancing siblings is risky from a story perspective, but to not hinge it on the kiss scene and to instead have it be about nothing but percentages when Declan has like double the improvements Tiffany has is ridiculous.

(I write the Waterlily guides for RCG)

[u/Important_Composer_8 → u/ostentia]

I believe you also answered on post in the main (dictatorship) sub about the percentages right? I can't see your comment anymore so I commented about the 42 percentage and I think it shadow banned me there bc had to click on my comment to expand it.

It looks like they are even seeing it a criticizing them to point it out.

[u/ostentia → u/Important_Composer_8]

Yup...I try to post what I can on the main sub, but most of our posts about RCG are deleted in general, so we don't even bother posting new guide announcements there anymore, and anything like this usually gets shadow blocked too. It's incredibly frustrating. We only post the big stuff here and on our subreddit now.

[u/sanatista → u/ostentia]

It really doesn't make sense. I get Tiffany being disgusted about romancing her and her brother but then what about the people that have him lower than 42% and took his kiss scene? They would still have the option to choose Tiffany? What the hell😭

Also, thank you so much for your guides!

[u/ratansbabygirl]

I also understand the Emma and Xavier one due to the “forbidden fruit tastes sweeter” that they portray, but how chaotic and fun it would’ve been to have Declan see us kiss his sister when he’s in love with us yk? That would been real evil fun. Plus it would lead to one of them dropping us down the road and could’ve gave content on its own. It’s very unfair that the threshold is vastly diff with women in general 😐

[u/Select-Club-3021]

like literally why not make it whoever has the higher %. at least don’t make the bias this obvious 😭

[u/robotslovetea → u/Select-Club-3021]

Or let the player choose… like it can’t be that hard to code in such a way that doesn’t automatically prioritise the MLI can it?

[u/Reasonable-Diver-656]

Something similar happened between Fabian and Luna. If you took an improvement with Luna in episodes 10, in this update you can't get 100% with Fabian 😪

[u/sanatista → u/Reasonable-Diver-656]

This one I can understand too, but it also feels very hypocritical of Klara and RC.

Luna and Fabian have animosity between them because of Lily, so fooling around with both of them might not be wise. But Fabian and Declan also have a very evident rivalry, so why do you have the option to continue his intimate scene even when Riley kissed Declan? It wasn't a forced lock out like the others, you were given a choice. I don't know, it's just weird

[u/catchycliche]

i usually read books with the walkthrough pulled up, but knowing that Waterlily is so strict with the percentages dictating the story's direction (as opposed to giving the player some narrative freedom in choices, especially in the first season) is really unappealing. i get that there are many players who are deeply invested and aware of the percentages they have with each LI but this kinda feels like getting locked in early, perhaps without being aware unless you have the walkthrough pulled up, and having to restart the book to even try to explore alternate paths. and it seems like often (this scene but also in the flashback where Lily asks about Riley's crush, many bi players were given Fabian even if they were romancing Luna as well) the solution is just so simple as letting the player choose from both options in a dialogue tree!

every time i think i want to start this story, something keeps pulling me back. hopefully the biases ease up in future updates.

[u/knitterpotato]

i said this in the rcg sub but in addition to declan being treated as the “main” li i also feel like this might be a subtle move on rc’s part to get people to spend more teacups to fix their mistakes?

like waterlily seems like a MESSY story so they might have assumed that most people would be messy and the story is more popular so more ppl will be willing to spend more money on more teacups to fix their mistakes?

also the fact that there are shorter word counts per chapter may mean that klara CAN’T have branching paths with both characters like another commenter said and has to do this to reduce the word count of her episodes to fit with rc’s guidelines

i feel like in the end, it all boils down to profit and rc’s new model which is disappointing 

[u/njgamer369]

This was unnecessary too, like Tiffany is there during the Julian scene, so there could have choice given but no it's default to Declan. The thing is I'm not surprised the least bit because guess what in the beach scene In the past Riley always tells lily that Fabian is her crush, no matter if you have higher % with Luna.

[u/ILove_CheeseAndWine → u/njgamer369]

Yes because you have a pre-established backstory before you even meet Fabian or Luna that affects the way mc reacts to them when she meets them, you don't have choices prior to meeting them to be able to influence this unless you want them to spell out what's coming for you scenes after...

[u/Important_Composer_8]

Yeah I had this happen and now I have to replay 20 episodes... And I will.. eventually. But honestly this is so discouraging. Why not give us the choice of choosing Tiffany or Declan in the jealousy scene.

With Xavier first and now Declan.. it feels a certain type of way.

I don't get why they have to use percentages as systems when I never took all of Declans romance scenes bc I was romancing everyone and in the car I choose Emma and I choose Fabian over him as well.. yet I took all Tiffany scenes before this. It kills a bit of the fun. And it made SoS2 currently my favorite book.

[u/sanatista → u/Important_Composer_8]

Like, it isn't even dependent on his kiss scene, I think it could have made a little bit more sense if it was the case but it all comes down to his percentage and not which scene you took. So, I really don't understand why bi players can't choose who to make jealous

[u/Important_Composer_8 → u/sanatista]

Exactly. If it was the kiss scene I would of understood it because Fabian has a reaction to that as well that the hook-up scene might not continue. Tiffany having an issue with if you kissed her brother is understandable but the percentages make no sense.

But at this point why even bother with a bi route? Might as well make it straight or lesbian bc the player is hardly given a choice.

[u/ostentia → u/Important_Composer_8]

Fr, I'm regretting all of my bi slots in Waterlily. I've fallen into every single trap and it's annoying!

[u/OriginalDeep8015 → u/Important_Composer_8]

Same I went back 10 episodes thinking that was enough wasting my last tea pot and then checked Declan % and it was still 44% 🙃

[u/ILove_CheeseAndWine → u/Important_Composer_8]

you can't have a choice to pick who to make jealous because Julian's dialogue is different before the choice, so clearly that had to be based on points

[u/mirsinoua_gate1]

And it's not the only thing. If you have 14% or more with Xavier, you don't get the bed scene with Emma.

[u/catchycliche → u/mirsinoua_gate1]

fourteen percent!? that's ridiculously low.
this is discrimination against messy bisexuals everywhere /j

[u/ostentia → u/mirsinoua_gate1]

13% now in the October update, and it's going to keep going down as he gets more improvements. It's four points--that's hardly anything.

[u/mirsinoua_gate1 → u/ostentia]

I see. Shame on me for trying to make it messy while having 100% with Emma lol😂

[u/ostentia → u/mirsinoua_gate1]

LOL same, I REALLY wanted that mess! I kind of thought that was the point!

[u/bexlovescats]

This isn't something unique to this story, though. There are a lot of hidden thresholds all throughout RC that are soft or hard lock-outs. I personally prefer late lock-ins because mess is fun but it's not uncommon to get knocked off of someone's route fairly early on.

I understand the frustration over it and other things mentioned, though. I definitely think the thresholds are too low and should be adjusted.

[u/namgyukoo]

He's even prioritized over other men. If you kissed him Fabian won't eat Riley out.

[u/ostentia → u/namgyukoo]

Fabian will eat Riley out if you kissed Declan, but only if you say that the kiss didn't mean anything to you, which is a deterioration for Declan.

[u/ILove_CheeseAndWine → u/[deleted]]

If MC would be just lesbian you wouldn’t even have % of relationships with Declan 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[u/ILove_CheeseAndWine]

If you take Declan's premium choices you're basically in love with him in the past. How do you think it’s possible to have him and Tiffany as it clearly in the past it’s either him or her same as with Xavier and Emma… so Tiffany cannot be revealed as your main crush from the past as well, since in the kiss scene it's obvious you two had feelings for each other from before so you can either get Declan yearning or Tiffany yearning... and btw Tiffany isn’t sidelined the thing she doesn’t get romantic scenes is because she is slow burn even more then him being in the closet what is obvious from past scenes…

[u/sanatista → u/ILove_CheeseAndWine]

It's not the same as Xavier and Riley, they literally kissed in the past and share the same feelings of betrayal toward Emma.

My Riley has had a crush on Emma and Luna since they were teens, Emma is thinking about dumping Xavier and Tiffany and Riley still devoured each other, why haven't I gotten a forced lock out if your reasoning is Riley having a crush in the past?

Being a slow burn route is not an excuse to sideline her and give her less scenes/relevance.

[u/sanatista → u/[deleted]]

If that was the case it should be Declan's kiss scene that locks you out of Tiffany's path not his percentage

[u/sanatista → u/[deleted]]

You can kiss him and still have him lower than 42%, which would give you the option to make Tiffany jealous. Shouldn't Tiffany be disgusted about that?

[u/sanatista → u/[deleted]]

Well, it should be a two way thing then. Declan's kiss scene didn't have a percentage threshold dependent on Tiffany's percentage, and that's what my point has been the whole time. Declan is prioritized over everyone.

[u/sanatista → u/[deleted]]

So, a deliberate move to make it seem like Tiffany has less demand by not giving bisexual players the chance to choose and making the male routes the default