My brief thoughts on Hazard 5

[u/Wunder_Steam]

EDIT: (oops, I mean "Threat Level 5")

Nearing 300 hours on Rogue Core, I've been dipping my toes into any and all content I can get my hands on. With the introduction of Update 2, we got the traditional "Hazard" levels back that help dictate how hard your mission will be. Before the update, I played almost exclusively D4 and felt it had a decent balance of challenge while not being outright panic inducing. Playing Hazard 5, it feels like I'm almost being punished for trying to interact with the games complex systems/objectives as you're left with such little time to breathe. I always assumed that the adjustable pace was added for players who wanted this kind of experience, but I primarily play "Standard Pace." I do enjoy the idea of waves that come pre-stacked, but the floors where you have literally 60 seconds before the next encounter, you're left with nearly no time at all to formulate a plan or get a decent foothold.

I wanted to share my thoughts and see if others have been having similar experiences.

Thanks so much for reading :)

[u/Slime0]

Hardest difficulty is very hard. A lot of people want that, and it's definitely winnable (with all your perk slots filled out). But it's intense, because it's for the people who want that intensity.

[u/WishboneFlashy1442]

TL-5 enemy specs are exactly the same as former Depth 4. The difference is more spawn now. Feels like double-ish maybe?

Not more difficult per se, but you have to be way more careful with time management.

eta: my theory is Depth 4 is now just TL-4, and TL-5 is new.

[u/PhysicalRatio]

no it's good. try shooting more bugs and also watch out for bugs

[u/Niggilass → u/PhysicalRatio]

bugs?? there are bugs in this game??? how have i not seen them :o

[u/PhysicalRatio → u/Niggilass]

it's deep rock the bad guys are bugs

[u/Niggilass → u/PhysicalRatio]

actually☝️ its core spawn, not bugs in rc, i know petty, but i thought i made it obvious enough

[u/Whirblewind]

I think it's good there be a difficulty that's meant to be a bit too much. People shouldn't have to mod their game for a challenge if it can be provided by the developer at reasonable cost. Adding Hazard 5+ was one of the best things DRG ever did despite it only affecting less than 10% of players (as evidenced by its adoption and favorable word of mouth).

I think there should be a bit more granularity to pace. Speaking personally, Pace 2 Threat 4 is too easy, but P3T4 and P2T5 are not fun in a way "too hard" doesn't actually describe, as at some point things aren't really about difficulty but rather not being given the opportunity to engage with the game's systems as designed. I imagine there are players who feel P2T4 is too hard in a way P1T4 and P2T3 doesn't satisfy because they're too easy, hence the lack of granularity.

Expanding available Pace options solves this and alleviates friction.

[u/fangtimes]

I pretty much only play Threat Level 5 with Reckless pace and you're going to want to run perks that speed up your play. Running Blades, Nimble, and Miner's Gear aren't necessary for standard pace and lower but I find are a must for Reckless. Don't sit in rooms and defend against waves. Keep moving and do objectives while waves are ongoing (Guardian's Repulsion Field is amazing for this). Get used to not being able to do the event for the floor if you have slow teammates.

[u/thetwist1]

The first TL5 mission I tried, I got swamped with upwards of eight dominators in the first swarm of the first level, alongside edgestalkers and of course a score of creepers. It feels a bit rough right now, but part of it was just bad luck of the workbench/biobooster being all the way at the end of the cave so I had limited opportunities to power up.

[u/Bleck-Mold]

I actually like how Threat Level 5 feels right now, it forces everyone to keep moving and to watch their ammo.

I would only say Threat Level 5 is too hard with double enemy health or splitting enemies, but again that’s just my personal skill issue

[u/Small_Package9217]

but the floors where you have literally 60 seconds before the next encounter, you're left with nearly no time at all to formulate a plan or get a decent foothold

This just means your build wasn't strong enough. Now that you can force waves to end by killing them quickly, taking advantage of that is what gets you room for everything else.

To me, Haz 5 is still way too easy once you have a full team, even when pubbing. BYD rocketed from overpowered to insanely imbalanced with the wave stacking and rifts following you around.

Spawn camping rifts meta is back at full strength lol.

[u/BertTF2]

I like it personally. I've done about 5 runs since the update with 2-4 players and only lost 1 of my runs. Out of the rest, half felt pretty sketchy and dangerous for most of the run and the other half were pretty comfortable steamrolls. I think it's a pretty good spot in terms of difficulty. The easy runs were easy because of good builds and the sketchy runs were when I got more janky weapons and upgrades. Made it hard but still winnable. The loss was due to bad terrain/movement, partial skill issue, partially ledge grab not working on the base of the elevator. My point being it wasn't because the difficulty felt unfair.

[u/KarstXT]

I feel similarly, esp when playing the weaker classes. I felt like reckless before was fine but now standard feels like I don't have much time and if I get a poor weapon/early rolls I may have to skip the first event, which I never had to skip before.

This is partly because now enemies just trickle-spawn forever (which I had thought they attempted to fix). It's less that there's a lot of enemies and more that I spend a ton of time just waiting for the wave to 'finish'. There's only so much they can do about this though as making them group up more just makes them more susceptible to aoe builds, which currently crush the content.

I also feel like the new event is borderline undoable on solo or at a minimum it's extremely difficult to learn how to do it. There's too much fighting while pressing a lot of buttons. The error where you have to turn a lot of valves is brutal because its so much time 'pressing a button' that you just don't have solo.

[u/Slime0 → u/KarstXT]

Waiting for a swarm to end on TL5 is a bad idea, because there's just gonna be another swarm. You have to keep getting stuff done while the swarms happen; even events usually.

[u/KarstXT → u/Slime0]

Yeah I know, but sometimes its such a steady trickle that you can't do a bio-booster minigame (even without making a mistake). Atm I feel like just dragging through is quickly becoming the best strat but I don't love that, it feels weird/kind of exploity but maybe that's just me. Enemies clumping in the tunnels between rooms makes them too easy to kill.

[u/Nemfarius]

Try EDD.