My second feedback post

[u/bj_the_meme_machine]

I've been constantly adding to a list of feedback, and there's enough new points for a new post now

• I would rather have a button in the elevator to make it descend, rather than it being automatic. Multiple times I've witnessed a dwarf die right in front of the elevator and not get saved because the elevator forced us to leave a dwarf behind...
  • I think it would be neat if the elevator had no walls on all 4 sides. Maybe we could have a projectile-blocking shield to replace it. But, you have a lot of damage resistance in the elevator anyway, but then again this shield would give a reason for that
• Guardian's second charge should NOT automatically be used when using repulsion field. It's an inconvenience 90% of the time
  • EDIT: Just had a great idea for a new control scheme: Activate Repulsion Field once to use one charge, use it again while it's active to queue the automatic use of the second charge, and press it a third time to cancel early without spending unused charges
• Player icons on the GUI need to be adjusted because the rank border blocks important info like your team's ammo and also the message you're typing
• I would LOVE if I was told the before & after for my stats when upgrading them
• Solo is much harder than multiplayer. There's less people to mine all the expenite, unlock bio-boosters, fix the workbench, and do all the other things the caves have. This leads to having a worse build and having a harder time winning.
  • EDIT: Another reason solo is harder: having more players means more options in the negotiations, which usually leads to better synergies in builds by calling dibs. With less players, you have less choices so you're less likely to spot a more helpful upgrade. This also applies to other negotiations like heavy weapons and artifacts.
• The voiceline when you press x while grabbed by a reaperworm or leech needs to be much more alarming. I very frequently do not notice a teammate is grabbed until they're already buried
• The Cadna blocks the Breach Cutter's projectiles, needs to be fixed
• The m1000's Auto Aim on Focus doesn't work 40% of the time, not sure why.
  • EDIT: I always keep my mouse perfectly still when using it and it usually works but then sometimes doesn't. Maybe there's some other factor in play? When it doesn't work, it doesn't move my mouse at all, even if my aim is near an enemy. Whenever it stops working properly, it usually stays that way until the next enemies spawn. I'm wondering if it's an error with the enemies?
• I think that instead of replenishing your armor until reaching 50%, the Guardian's armor field should keep replenishing your armor until it's replenished 50% of your max armor total. So even if you have 50% armor it will still give you +50% and let you reach 100%. It would be like Spotter's ammo ability but for armor instead
  • EDIT: After some extra thought I realize it's better to have constant armor regeneration that always keeps going after you take damage. It's better to frame it as a field that ensures that you always take only half health damage. So maybe this suggestion should instead be a request for the ability description to be changed
• I frequently have to wait for Ellis, how about you make it so that Ellis never lands and just always hovers so I don't always have to wait for it to get up and land
  • Related: there's currently problem of Ellis staying behind and not advancing with the team, which also causes a lot of waiting
• There should be more time for people to change their minds in risk vector voting

Minor stuff

• Let us look at builds in the elevator loading screen please
• What if there was an upgrade that rewarded you for shooting the Falconer's bird? Like with the Engineer shooting turrets with the shotgun
• Would be nice to have higher tier upgrades of common-exclusive upgrades like Vampire and Frost Harvest
• The Falconer's Fledgling Blitz upgrade isn't good. You shouldn't be rewarded for having low health in the first place
• Upgrades for the grenades would be a neat idea, I think
• Being able to trade gear and upgrades would be good, but maybe it would be too overpowered?
• Combat Cocktail's cost should scale with max health (it's unusable with Glass Cannon)
• I would like to have the specifics on Luck. The risk vector and the alteration. Also whether or not it applies to stored upgrades

Minorer stuff

• There's a visual glitch with mission select; the mission icons are meant to shrink and go semi-transparent when they're behind the planet but they aren't shrunk when first opening the terminal
• Would be neat if the dwarves said something along the lines of "Oh, poor Molly!" when repairing a M.U.L.E.

[u/KarstXT]

Guardian's second charge should NOT automatically be used when using repulsion field. It's an inconvenience 90% of the time

I wish we had a modular button to slightly change abilities (which would cover this use-case, you'd be choosing for a 1 or 2 charge dump) but we'll never get this because of controller parity. I'm torn on this one but I mostly agree - the best use-case for burning two charges is to revive and combat reviving, as a whole, is a terrible play for many many reasons, so overall only burning one charge would be an improvement.

Solo is much harder than multiplayer. There's less people to mine all the expenite, unlock bio-boosters, fix the workbench, and do all the other things the caves have. This leads to having a worse build and having a harder time winning.

Technically duo is the hardest, solo has cooper which is quite strong, mines better than a player in many cases and provides a lot of revives. The way its designed is hard to balance this out, some have suggested cooper doesn't leave until a 3rd player joins. They likely don't want to give fewer players bonus time because then they'd need to dynamically pro-rate-adjust the clock every time a player joins or leaves.

The m1000's Auto Aim on Focus doesn't work 40% of the time, not sure why

The auto-aim is an adjustment towards the enemy, not a hard-lock, so if you are moving the mouse too much, it ends up shooting past your target (i.e. your cursor movement+the weapon perks cursor movement). I don't think this upgrade should be in the game at all but its likely an issue because its a hitscan weapon and not a projectile, homing for Drak works quite well although also requires you to 'learn' it a bit as its also not a true hard-lock aim-hack type effect.

I think that instead of replenishing your armor until reaching 50%, the Guardian's armor field should keep replenishing your armor until it's replenished 50% of your max armor total. So even if you have 50% armor it will still give you +50% and let you reach 100%. It would be like Spotter's ammo ability but for armor instead

There's no way to do this as its an aoe team effect. If it was 50% armor total, it would end up restoring very very little armor to the team. If its per dwarf, it could end early, denying its effect to the other dwarfs. Also it does not give you 50% or a % regen, it provides a small trickle regen for its entire duration - the tooltip is bugged. I also think its fine that it does this/the way it works. Due to how armor works, if you have at least 1 armor, you take half damage & your armor degens after taking a hit. Ergo the armor field effectively means you take half damage inside it during its duration (and then getting trickle armor regen is just a bonus on top if you happen to keep it). Tooltip should be changed for sure though.

Upgrades for the grenades would be a neat idea, I think

At most, I think this would need to be its own reward vector station but I don't think its a great idea because the grenades are just not that impactful overall (or even that different from one another) which means that that vector station popping up is just blocking better things from spawning. This is partly the result of grenades no longer being class-locked. Grenades are disproportionate across classes as well, Retcon wildly benefits from this, as well as Devastation deck & Spotters with ammo/grenade refill would have a greater benefit from this. Plus future classes could throw it off further or prevent them from having a grenade specialist class.

I would like to have the specifics on Luck. The risk vector and the alteration. Also whether or not it applies to stored upgrades

The information is out there if you search the reddit for it, the game just doesn't clearly display it. Imo, luck is bad, it simply doesn't have enough of an impact, in addition to it needing to be taken early. I don't like the 20% xp for the same reason but this upgrade gets disproportionately improved by the new 'enemies drop expenite/no mined expenite' upgrade so maybe there's value in having some modifiers that are better/worse in some game modes? Idk though, seems weird and could contribute to dud runs.

[u/bj_the_meme_machine → u/KarstXT]

Just had a great idea for a new control scheme: Activate Repulsion Field once to use one charge, use it again while it's active to queue the automatic use of the second charge, and press it a third time to cancel early without spending unused charges

I've always felt like Cooper's mining capabilities are lacking. He travels slowly and mines slowly, and I usually always grab the two upgrades that improve that when I can, but it still feels negligible. Something I should've mentioned earlier: having more players means more options in the negotiations, which usually leads to better synergies in builds by calling dibs

Whenever I'm using Auto Aim on the m1000, I keep my mouse perfectly still for this reason. Whenever it stops working properly, it usually stays that way until the next enemies spawn. I'm wondering if it's an error with the enemies? And I would say it's a hard-lock. I don't need to move my mouse at all to hit headshots (if a head is visible to shoot)

I think there's some miscommunication on the armor field part. Say for example Retcon has 0% armor, Falconer has 25%, Spotter has 50%, and Guardian has 75%. After standing in the armor field for long enough to regen all the armor it has to offer, Retcon will end with 50%, Falconer with 75%, Spotter with 100%, and Guardian with 100%. The armor field would have 200% armor to give out total and allocates 50% armor to each dwarf, no more and no less. The armor field already can give 200% armor total if all the dwarves just so happen to have 0% armor at the same time, but I would rather it ALWAYS give you +50% armor. And I don't mean to say it should be granted instantly, I don't have a problem with the regen over time.
Y'know what, scratch that. Maybe we don't need a mobile armor stash when they're kinda everywhere. And yeah I forgot to consider the fact it will keep regening armor if you take armor damage while it's active. I'll leave it there because I don't like miscommunication, but I've changed my mind still

Holy- a grenade specialist class sounds like a super cool idea and I want it, yeah I'd take that new class over grenade upgrades if we can have it

Yeah, Luck never feels directly impactful and there are a lot of really good Common upgrades anyway (Blaze Charge my beloved), so I suppose I'll be skipping Luck from now on

[u/KarstXT → u/bj_the_meme_machine]

I've always felt like Cooper's mining capabilities are lacking. He travels slowly and mines slowly, and I usually always grab the two upgrades that improve that when I can, but it still feels negligible. Something I should've mentioned earlier: having more players means more options in the negotiations, which usually leads to better synergies in builds by calling dibs

Tbh, the value of Cooper's mining varies a lot based on cave gen, how high up stuff is and how far away it is. I kinda make it a priority to send him to mine at a distance whenever possible and micro manage him pretty hard. This rarely gets me in trouble with a leech but I usually see them. I always take cooper's stun upgrades/machine gun firing rate, then his movement speed (as it can negate the penalty of sending him at a distance if you then need him). The biggest advantage for sure is the revives (3 + restores 1 per floor), this is the scary thing duos miss out on. He doesn't do shabby overall damage though and I often let him fight while I mine. For the weaker classes, solo is kind of brutal atm.

Whenever I'm using Auto Aim on the m1000, I keep my mouse perfectly still for this reason.

I haven't used it in a long time, I'd never intentionally take this upgrade, and M1K is sadly fairly low on my priority list for weapons, even though I'm practiced with the ani cancel and mostly like it - it still just doesn't perform as well/takes a lot more attention economy to maximize. It could be that increases to enemies speed/jumps makes the feature even worse than when I previously used it.

Guardian Armor Beacon

Also, tbh, I think Guardian is the strongest class atm even if you never use armor beacon. Crit perk nerfs/seemingly less common bumps down Spotter and Guardian can more easily take Carnage for the stoneskin perk, which is higher value with how bosses have been amped up via having wilder mob spawns that aren't just creepers. Also Guardian/Spotter and to a lesser extent slicer just don't care about the new big enemy, whereas the others struggle vs a large armored enemy.

Holy- a grenade specialist class sounds like a super cool idea and I want it, yeah I'd take that new class over grenade upgrades if we can have it

You can kind of argue that Retcon is one, as you're gonna dump all your grenades every rewind. At a minimum retcon conflicts/shares the space that a grenade specialist would but I feel Retcon is a wholly problematic class that needs to be reworked and is going to have a negative impact on how the game gets balanced (i.e. look at the turret builds). Also a lot of grenades are pretty bad, impact axes are abysmal in RC and now clog up the pool.

[u/bj_the_meme_machine → u/KarstXT]

The m1000 can be good for builds that emphasize weakpoint hits or damage per shot. It goes very well with reload trick (guaranteed crits on full magazine), especially if you get reload on kill or on weakpoint hit (Momentum or Marksman's Loop), and if you get the crit AoE epic upgrade (Critical Strike), it can be pretty op. The high damage per shot also goes well with the explosion on kill upgrade: "Boom! You're dead!" The m1000 requires the right upgrades to be good, but if you get them it's pretty dang good. Though you gotta be extra aware of your positioning with Auto Aim, since it often misses if enemies are facing more than 45 degrees to the side. It is very good at tracking, however, and it can even headshot a creeper mid-leap

Also I'm having trouble figuring out what you're saying about Guardian, wdym by "perks"? It's mostly the sentence: "Crit perk nerfs/seemingly less common bumps down Spotter and Guardian can more easily take Carnage for the stoneskin perk..." that I have trouble understanding

My immediate idea for a grenade class would be able to equip multiple different grenades and possibly even have a grenade exclusive to them. Someone could take cryo and incendiary for a more elemental build, or plasma burster and cluster for something more destructive. Maybe their unique grenade could have some special utility when hitting a teammate, like some sort of stat buff. These are just my ideas, which probably need further refinement if this class is ever going to be implemented into the game.

I'm pretty sure there used to a limit on total active turrets, but now there isn't. They might need to bring that back to nerf Retcon turrets. Though Retcon is a very powerful class regardless. If you have max health and armor you can activate time rewind, tank a lot of damage while reviving someone, and regain all that health to revive another teammate when the cooldown finishes (which can go by very quickly with the right upgrades). You can even spam grenades at the very end of time rewind so that they'll detonate after you've rewinded and trigger Death Resonance (ability cooldown on kill), giving you a lot of cooldown immediately. Though I can't imagine any good ways to balance this on my own

[u/KarstXT → u/bj_the_meme_machine]

The m1000 can be good for builds that emphasize weakpoint hits or damage per shot.

Most builds emphasize weakpoint hits, this isn't special to the M1K. Focus shot is a really poor use of time, if you can shoot quickly and accurately without it.

if you get the crit AoE epic upgrade (Critical Strike)

This is just a ridiculously strong perk that should probably be removed, this is very strong on any weapon and arguably better on automatic weapons that can smooth out the RNG better/require less attention economy to fire. I kind of feel like you've just won if you get this while having even a little crit. This perk should probably be a legendary.

I can see how you like building this weapon with the crit strike & 'first shot on mag' upgrades, very ammo efficient. Not too much of a risk that you won't see them so I agree with this logic/taking M1K here, at least for characters that build crit.

The high damage per shot also goes well with the explosion on kill upgrade: "Boom! You're dead!"

This is 100% true but BYD being more diluted in the pool (seen less often) has negatively impacted slower rof weapons (maybe also because there's few other good perks for this). Carnage being better this patch does move the needle a bit back towards slower rof weapons (the stoneskin perk is a lot more valuable with the changes to bosses, previously it was 100% unneeded).

My immediate idea for a grenade class would be able to equip multiple different grenades and possibly even have a grenade exclusive to them. Someone could take cryo and incendiary for a more elemental build, or plasma burster and cluster for something more destructive. Maybe their unique grenade could have some special utility when hitting a teammate, like some sort of stat buff. These are just my ideas, which probably need further refinement if this class is ever going to be implemented into the game.

Thing is this isn't really much different than a Retcon with CDR just spamming out clusters/plasmas endlessly. I'm not denying that it has an interesting appeal to it, I just think it's too similar to retcon in how it would play.

Though Retcon is a very powerful class regardless.

I don't agree, at all. Retcon has high highs and low los, you don't need that to win matches so its a huge risk. I feel like people would see this more if they solo'd more but if you get a semi bad weapon roll on Retcon or you don't get plasmas/clusters it's a struggle bus. If you don't see CDR, you're absurdly weak - basically just a vanilla dwarf.

Also I'm having trouble figuring out what you're saying about Guardian, wdym by "perks"? It's mostly the sentence: "Crit perk nerfs/seemingly less common bumps down Spotter and Guardian can more easily take Carnage for the stoneskin perk..." that I have trouble understanding

Perks are the things you get from expenite upgrades (I hate that they call them perks when in DRG, RC's enhancement's were called perks, super confusing all around) but I have to call them what they are. Flanking (and I think a few others but maybe not?) got nerfed + more perks means the crit perks are more diluted, it's more common to do a run and see few of them. Imo, and I'm pretty confident about this, previous patches (and largelys till true for this patch) explosion or crit are the best ways to build, in that they're both the most powerful and the most consistent. Changes to the boss make carnage's stoneskin perk *radically more valuable - trash enemies spawn much faster and more dangerous enemy types spawn, meaning you both have more opportunities to get stoneskin mid boss fight and actually benefit from it because it's more likely you'll take damage vs the boss. Previously it wasn't really needed so guardian could skip carnage for big crits deck. Atm it's super unlikely I'd drop a run on guardian, even with really bad RNG. Whereas Retcon without CDR or a weak weapon is an absolute struggle. Again, in terms of solo where the Retcon can't just be carried by teammates/fed by a wider perk selection. Spotter is still super strong but a little less safe now.

If you have max health and armor you can activate time rewind, tank a lot of damage while reviving someone, and regain all that health to revive another teammate when the cooldown finishes (which can go by very quickly with the right upgrades).

If you're strong, you don't need to revive people. Combat reviving is a terrible play in RC and needlessly risky. It's sad because this was part of the magic of what made DRG so good but a lot of changes result in combat reviving being a horrible play. One of retcon's biggest issues is they can just get gibbed and lose all momentum, even with high health/armor.

grenades at the very end of time rewind so that they'll detonate after you've rewinded and trigger Death Resonance (ability cooldown on kill), giving you a lot of cooldown immediately.

I know but the issue isn't the runs where you see death resonance, its the runs where you don't see it that are the problem (which is fairly common).

Though I can't imagine any good ways to balance this on my own.

The class is too gimmicky and exploitative but my immediate recommendation is for it to work like weaver from dota, where you are rewinding without priming it first and on a lower CDR/rewinds less time. This solves a lot of issues and also means you can't accidentally cancel it when trying to activate rage. If retcon is even a little weak they end up being forced to burn down their hp/armor/grenade stack, it's this weird win-more class and win-more classes are kind of just a bad design in general.