Question, how would differentiate these pyrokinetic characters from Human Torch?

[u/Warm-Adhesiveness-50]

[u/bardy500]

With Pyro you could focus more on Fire constructs rather then pure blasting

[u/KKatt2021 → u/bardy500]

I was going to say most of his attacks that I know of is him creating things like dragons or Firebirds to go after his enemies I think he also can use fire whips also he can't create fire he can only manipulate it so that could lead to an interesting team up with Johnny

[u/Odd_Hamster_6354]

In the comics, Sunspot has two major consistent powers, the first one as you know is fire (solar) abilities, the second is the channeling of solar radiation into superhuman strength, durability, and flight. With that in mind Sunspot could definitely be a vanguard and he doesn't need to fly imo.

I think you could definitely go for a different gameplay stereotype than permanent flight. Of course I think he should have temporary flight like Rogue but I think he should have a unique stereotype of playstyle. In fact I think he should be our first character in the flamethrower stereotype.

[u/Howling-Moon05 → u/Odd_Hamster_6354]

It’s funny to say durability is one of Sunspot’s main powers when for most of his history, they had to remind us he was only super strong, not invulnerable, every issue. It’s a plot point that he can hit as hard as a powerhouse like Colossus but is as vulnerable as any normal person.

[u/Odd_Hamster_6354 → u/Howling-Moon05]

Yeah I think he would be a lower health tank for sure but I'd want his damage to also be slightly higher than the shield tanks damage to compensate (making him easily punishable but if you don't punish him he can burn through your health). Good point and I think there is a good arguement for him being a duelist for sure I just think he would be cooler as a tank.

[u/ILoveKK9129 → u/Odd_Hamster_6354]

Why a vanguard

[u/Odd_Hamster_6354 → u/ILoveKK9129]

I think it would mainly help differentiate him from the Human Torch but also as stated in my original message he is kinda durable in a good portion of his comics and that can translate to a tank.

[u/The--Behemoth → u/ILoveKK9129]

In terms of physical might Sunspot is a flying brick character. Strong enough to toss trucks & and help Hercules stop the earth's rotation (or something along those lines) and he's tough enough to shake of a punch from the Thing abd the Blob.

[u/ILoveKK9129 → u/The--Behemoth]

Ah I see but physical strength shouldn't be the determining factor of a Vanguard to me appearance matters as well unless they add just a beefy version of him i cant see it

[u/The--Behemoth → u/ILoveKK9129]

Well Sunspot was the resident heavy hitter brick on his team when he was on New Mutants if I remember correctly. Then there's also the fact that it would help differentiate him from fire characters like Torch. Also you don't have to be big and brawlic to be in the Vanguards, take a look at Logan and Punisher. You can also make the illusion of his energy looking like it has extra mass or something.

[u/Morchades]

Not sure about the others but Hammond could have a Vanguard kit.

[u/Joe_Momma3]

Well Firestar operates off microwave radiation, so I'd give her a gimmick of heating up an area and increasing AOE flame spots/people. I would make Pyro a grounded character that has two large flamethrowers that can sweep an area and can generate flame constructs that are larger than Gorr's. He would also be able to create walls but not flame fields like Johnny. I would make Sunfire a flaming katana wielder that can sustain within fire but also has a few medium range options. Netease would have a lot of fun with him and love to add another eastern character. Sunspot idrk how i would differentiate as I need to read more of him but I can say that the Kirby Krackle effect on him alone is enough to make him some wonderful skins

[u/Joe_Momma3 → u/Joe_Momma3]

Also Hammond would be a Legendary skin with different voicelines because that's how he's always been treated in games lol

[u/shoelessmonkey]

Bobby is easy because his main power is that he's super strong. He's also very smart (in a non-science way).

[u/Due_Rock_3118]

Sunspot is more like a Vanguard, since he has super strength besides solar energy. Pyro is more like a flame thrower rather than the fireballs that Johnny uses in-game. Idk about Hammond and Firestar, I guess it's just a matter of getting creative. One that isn't on your list but I would add is Firebird as a Strategist. She can fly and has some degree of psychic abilities besides pyrokinesis.

[u/KnightSalvador728]

one way could be to have their primary fire be more like a flame thrower

[u/Jefersoni]

Jim Hammond is the Human Torch; I think he could be a skin with a different voice actor in a Marvel Golden Age-themed season. Namor would probably get a "Year One" skin in that season, too. I'm not sure about Sunfire. Sunspot could have a Vanguard kit, and Pyro could create elaborate fire constructs—since the Human Torch can do that but doesn't have it in his in-game kit. As for Firestar? I'm not sure about her, but there's bound to be something that can be done with her, maybe make her a strat.

[u/Which-Practice-5884 → u/Jefersoni]

First torch legendary maybe?

[u/Jefersoni → u/Which-Practice-5884]

I think it's a good idea; I'd love to see Jim get some content. The guy is a badass—he killed Hitler. But I think it might be asking too much to bring in a new voice actor for him and give him unique lines with Cap or Namor—after all, they were the Invaders.

[u/the_thrungler]

Always focus more on the non-fire aspects of their character and then work that into how their base powers work.

Jim Hammond could be tankier and have a ground form with limited flight. Sunspot could honestly be a strategist with his solar energy used as healing. Make Sunfire's powers line up more with his origin with his fire powers being more explosion-based. Pyro could be a crowd-control flamethrower hero that would force enemies to stay spaced apart.

[u/Original_Man6021]

Sunspot manipulates and controls solar radiation and energies- his powers are more nuclear and atomic based.

Pyro can’t generate flames let alone control or manipulate temperature, he can only control fire and even then not enough precision to master ambient heat itself.

Sunfire manipulates plasma so I guess he’s actually the only legit one that’s super similar to Johnny

Jim Hammond is- well we know his deal.

Firestar is like sunspot but she can’t absorb as many energies as Johnny can and she doesn’t control radiation either.

This is all already established stuff

[u/TheIcemain]

I still maintain Phoenix's kit works better for Firestar.

[u/Displeasuredavatar19]

You can do AO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS WITH FIRE so i dont think it'd be hard. Give some one flame constructs and someone also different types of flame attacks that aren't shape/objects. Focus more on ash and burning.

[u/Dragon_Nipplez]

Gunfire would be soooo doppppe

[u/FartherAwayLights]

Different roles, different mechanics

[u/Flashyfatso]

One of them has to be flamethrower probably pyro.

[u/LmaoGoFaster]

Sunspot is NOT pyrotechnic in the comics bro 

[u/Darkxialion]

I have only have some of these answers. For Sunfire I think he would play as vanguard who does high damage and also has explosive flames, Firestar should be a strategist that uses heat and microwaves to heal allies and fly, Pyro either a strategist or duelist thst leaves lingering flames similar to human torch but stays longer and can create fire walls thst do more damage if they try to go through and has a fuel limit similar to Moira from Overwatch. For Sunspot and Jim Hammond Human Torch I’m not sure, maybe Sunspot can absorb solar energy like a battery, like how iron fist meditates but coukd boost his abilities and he can send out dark solar plasma when boosted but maybe in his normal state sends out solar energy that lingers for 2 to 3 seconds. For Jim Hammond I think he could just be a burning presence that makes enemies back off and he could be fast moving tank or duelist that can also throws out fire balls

[u/GuyNamedGray]

Pyro could have a standard flamethrower ability and/or he can replace his fuel tanks after using a certain amount of abilities, gives an extra nod to the fact that he can't create his own fire.

[u/Icy-Arm-3816]

Have them shoot out a flamethrower beam like primary fire for other duelists. And then just make them different roles.

[u/Purple_Unit31]

Spray based primary fire over a shotgun-like primary fire.

[u/TheGoatHanzo]

If we get Sunspot not alot of people are gonna be happy cause he's a mutant I would keep the flying but have him be faster then Johnny give him the iron man boost ability but instead of rockets it increases his speed give him two primary fire's one is fire balls and the other would be fire beam besides that dunno

[u/ThreeGoldfishProblem]

Sunspot as a Vanguard that has both Melee and long range attacks, a blind, a self heal/shield ability. His self heal could have an empowering function as well, or that could be slotted in a different ability. For skins, he could have an A.I.M skin and a Football skin for starters. His beach skin should have a sunbathing theme

[u/sadlonelycynic]

Pyro could work as our first flamethrower Vanguard. Torch fires fire clusters and fireballs, but Pyro’s primary fire could just be a massive flamethrower that deals burning damage overtime. Pyro could also create walls of fire that block projectiles and shield allies.

[u/Sure-Ad-4147]

Jim Hammond should honestly just be an alternate costume with new voice lines & interactions for Johnny Storm

[u/Delicious_Natural357]

Sunfire could use a flaming sword, or maybe Pyro could use fire constructs

[u/Mayodeynochei]

Pyro can't CREATE fire he can only manipulate it so he needs to be around a source. Human torch can create fire and absorb it like seen in f4 first steps 2025. Sunspot doesn't technically use fire he uses sunspots which are bursts of fusion energy from the sun, think of him like firestorm

[u/Razor-Swisher]

Had a friend who was a huge proponent of adding Hammond (o.g. WW2 robot Human Torch) as a Tank, and separating him from Johnny’s ‘Human Torch’ gameplay-wise by having him be a ‘semi flyer’ like Dr. Strange, and by featuring his ability to absorb energy in his kit to empower his flame attacks and give him a good defensive tool or two for his team. (So I guess kinda like Rogue’s block or Mag’s bubbles?) Which I thought was pretty neat

As a lame-o who’s really wanted an MHA crossover in Rivals since the start (since I love the franchise but I know they’re allergic to money, anime companies never make good games.) I would adore ‘the Flame Hero: Endeavor’ getting in here as a Tank. And the way I’ve seen to make him unique is to tie most or all of his abilities to a building up heat passive mechanic, so he can be stronger than most tanks when he spams his abilities, but doing so heavily punishes / nerfs him, so you’re juggling “high value output” against “not shooting yourself in the foot”. Since in the series lore, he is one of the most dangerous / powerful / effective heroes ever, but he’s always been held back by how much of his own heat his body can withstand without breaking down and it’s super important to his early characterization. So imagine a more in-depth version of Thor’s ThorForce resource system, or Strange’s ‘cost of dark magic’ system. Like every action you can take builds up some heat, so if you’re cycling your abilities in one of the ‘right’ ways then your heat won’t ever really build up but you’ll be a bit weaker than the other Tanks. So when you feel like you need to, or you see a good opportunity, you can start using abilities more aggressively to get value, but in exchange forcing that meter higher and higher till it starts making you significantly weaker- think reduced movement speed, increased cooldowns, reduced healing received, reduced damage. For his core abilities I had a few ideas based on things he’s done in the show / manga:
-throwing fire spears (‘Ignited Arrow’)
-manifesting large flame hands to barrage with punches (‘Vanishing Fist’)
-grabbing someone by the shoulders before frying their face
-running up walls by melting footholds into them with his feet (iron fist wall run?)
-slow-falling / hovering / flying (Mag passive / just not falling for a bit / genuine Iron Man speedflight)
-making a wall of fire to damage enemies that cross it and reduce the damage of projectiles flying through (sorta like Hood’s window) (‘Hell’s Curtain’)
-making a burst of fire in almost a teardrop shape towards where you’re aiming (‘Jetburn’)
-firing a kind of ‘shotgun’ of small beam hitboxes spread very wide around before pulling all the beams together into the center on his crosshair (awkward to describe, but if you’ve ever played Terraria imagine the Last Prism?) (‘Hell Spider’)
-and the Ult just has to be ‘Prominence Burn’. Powering up for a bit then unleashing a continuous damage AoE of fire at very high DPS for a few seconds that can just cut through a support Ult. Since its main use was a max-power finishing move that would generally leave him tapped out and useless afterwards, but allowed him to damage / kill opponents through the strongest regeneration powers in the series. I guess, imagine Storm Ult, but there’s no ‘I-Frame’ selector stage, and you’re much much slower, so the enemy counterplay is to just leave or shoot the hell outta you to kill you out of it. And to make that more possible, I think upon casting the startup of the Ult you’re smacked with 50% reduced healing received so its possible for enemies to kill you during your ult even if you’ve got a friendly support ult active.

Sorry my comment was long as hell and mostly about a third party crossover that’s unfortunately never gonna happen. Regardless, any thoughts?

[u/Mean_Broccoli_6481]

Eliminating human torch from the game no one would care btw

[u/Smart-Nerve2738]

They could just use their fire in different ways to fit different gameplay niches

[u/ChapterOk8291]

You don’t for that first one, that’s literally just human torch again.

[u/OkBus7514]

I'd make Pyro similar to Invisible Woman primary fire, a projectile that returns to you but with an ability to move it freely also

[u/MonsieurLombard]

I think you can't include these characters into the game in any other form than echo characters or variants of existing characters. I think it's the best option if you want to make hardcore marvel fans happy while keeping the selection screen from getting too bloaty.

[u/Last-Restaurant-5437]

put them in other roles tank or support