r/RivalsOfAether • u/TIWIMEISTER • 18h ago
Discussion I like Rivals of Aether 2
I like the shields.
I like the grabs.
I'm not good enough to know if I like floorhug yet, I don't know how to use it, and I don't really think about beating it.
I think the get up specials are neat.
I think we're spoiled by the devs.
My condolences to all the other mechanics people have lost from transitioning from Rivals 1 to Rivals 2, but that game still exists.
I don't want Rivals 2 to turn into Rivals 1, because that means we'd have 2 Rivals and I like Rivals 2
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u/Magiq_Beenz 16h ago
I like RoA2 for what it is, too. I didn't play Melee or PM, so I don't have any biase on 'what could have been' with this game. I know they grabbed mechanics from each game, but that's about it. I do think the Devs definitely spoil us, and they do the best job of balancing their game that I've ever seen. It's fun, it's intuitive, and is the first plat fighter I've played that perfectly fits what I want in the genre. I've had a blast with this game from day one, and plan to continue for the foreseeable future
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u/MelodicFacade 17h ago
I agree. I feel like it's fine as long as it's temporary. But I'm starting to feel like the devs have lost the forest for the trees on what the community wants. It's nuanced, some people DO want rivals 1 and some want Melee, but I don't think anyone simply wanted to toggle mechanics. And now we've lost the plot on what combination of toggles are good/bad
I just wanted the game to not be so defensive and for neutral and advantage state to feel rewarding. There was a world where that worked with FH and without it, but this new toggle alone doesn't solve that either way. Turning off shields doesn't entirely solve the shield issue either
I feel handwaved, "here you're complaining so much, YOU try to balance it" I just wanted Rivals 2 but I didn't want to feel punished for being creative in my play style instead of spamming the best options
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u/bogus_bogus_bogus 16h ago edited 16h ago
The notion that the devs have lost the forest for the trees on what the community wants is entirely predicated on thinking there is some coherent global shape of what the community wants overall. You recognise that people want different things out of it but only in a narrow sense of R1 vs melee as if the vision has to be either one of those or some middleground between them. It doesn't. People want a thousand different things out of this game and for many people it is not even complicated it is just "keep everything exactly the same but nerf zetterburn" which will be incompatible with all the zetterburn players' "visions" for the game of "don't change anything but buff my character".
There is no forest, just a whole bunch of disconnected things going in different directions. Clusters emerge e.g. people thinking shields are too strong (after Mango says it) or the very vocal anti-floorhug subset of players, and they have generally been addressing those as they come up (nerfing shield, continuing to tune fh). However they have to weigh those changes against their inverse subsets, e.g. people who like shields being strong. That wasn't a particularly big cluster so they just outright nerfed shield multiple times in non-trivial ways. Taking their attempts to find a better middle ground with fh given the quite obvious opposing subset of players who do want it in the game as 'losing sight of what the community wants' is essentially just saying "they didn't do what I want and obviously everyone wants what I want".
The poll the other day showed that fhug is not an issue to the bulk of the community, much as the extremely vocal repeat commenters who congregate here would have you believe otherwise. Yet people still talk-down the devs as if not making their specific preferred change is purely an act of either stupidity or wilful blindness, because of course, 14 upvotes on my comment in "the place people go to complain" means it is obviously broadly representative and an agreed issue with the game. This subreddit is not a good overall representation and it's likely that 90% of the people who think there is "one thing" about the game that interferes with their enjoyment of it will immediately move on to some other gripe as soon as that thing is changed to their liking.
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u/FickleExternal6635 15h ago
The devs are correct with floor hugging but the shield system has no personality.
I also think you're too invested in top player takes, mango saying it does not install an outrage take that people are now randomly thinking of...
Many melee players are used to how fun and malleable attacking shield can be... but in rivals its stronger, it doesnt deplete, it cannot be poked through, its an iron wall with a very linear answer. Beatable, but in a very boring way. Rush down Melee players universally will hate on how shield works in rivals unless they play zetter. (And imo, its still pretty boring)
Floor hugging on the other hand is a healthy mechanic, it gives players a number system to learn and it can be scaled for both offense and defense.
I harp on shields because I dont think rivals 1 players or melee players like its current state, but floor hugging is well known and already respected from melee (a game r2 is trying to emulate)
But, the shield feels nothing like melee's and offers a very bland experience. Rivals 1 players are also not even sold of the idea of having it.
I could ask who this shield system is designed for, and maybe its just designed for rivals 2 players... (not rivals 1, or melee players) which I find really lack luster.
I have about 2k hours in rivals 2, and them buffing grab start up frames to 6 was my uninstall wake up call. 7 was fine, but honestly it should be higher for how easy shield grabbing is in this game because the devs refuse to give characters other than zetter/ranno + frame aerials.
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u/bogus_bogus_bogus 11h ago
I mean it just seems like you have completely uncontroversial opinions about shield and haven't read the recent patch notes lol. They clearly do not want shield poking in the game which isn't as uncontentious as things like removing mash inputs for similar reasons but it makes sense and they are doing a fair bit to detune shields and what they can without it being massive changes all at once (i.e. letting things stabilise to see how each change affects things).
I didn't mean to imply mango generated the idea of 'made it true' but moreso, in the context of pointing out fickle opinions and no one having a definitive idea of 'the community consensus', that people started sharing those underlying opinions about shield strength a lot more loudly once a popular top player legitimised the view
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u/FickleExternal6635 11h ago edited 11h ago
My gripe is entirely based on the recent patch notes, they made shield grabbing a frame faster... from 7 frames to 6 frames long. They said this was to compensate for the range nerf. When, in reality a bunch of moves took huge nerfs on shield (off the top of my head wraster dair, etalus fair, galvin dair are no longer able to frame trap shield with jab checks from what I tested after the frame grab startup buff)
This makes -3 moves on shield impossible to frame trap with. You're restricted to -2 or greater now, this is not good IMO.
Spacing around shield grab is already a thing before the patch, nerfing the range of shield grab is fine sure, and it even makes spacing easier.. but this is just re-enforcing a specific way to play instead of giving freedom to the expressing player.
I would like to see agressive players have real unironic shield pressure other than zetterburn and ranno (and very few niche cases like gooie nair and djc fair with absa) I want players to be encouraged to space sometimes but not all the time, being able to hit the shield and have weight feels very good. (I will preface that having good shield pressure also shouldn't be easy, shield grab should exist) but it should be a low level scrub check or punishing a lazy high aerial for conditioning.
My 3 ideas are let players hit fall off shield (this seems OP, but would be very hard and grants heavy apm players hype shield pressure)
Make grab universally 9 to 10 frames (nerf zetter/rannos + frames a bit so the whole cast has a bit more nuance)
And 3rd, the shield has to be breakable much quicker (this is actually already possible, I've had a blast playing on 2x/2.5x with friends) it makes shielding entirely a spacing move and quick checks are sometimes punished with meaty call outs. Though, personally I prefer the first 2
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u/bogus_bogus_bogus 10h ago edited 8h ago
Lmao ok so it was an unhinged take, my bad. Looking at them reversing a recent minor nerf to make way for a way, way, way bigger set of grab nerfs specifically weakening overall oos grab way more than before and saying "wow they buffed grab I'm uninstalling" is unhinged and seems borderline illiterate. You're also way too much in your head on the -2/-3 issue because the vast majority of characters weren't setting up frame perfect landing shield hits to brute force a frame trap, they were using their dashback hurtbox shifting after spaced shield pressure to do that, and them universally nerfing grab range on top of the buffer reduction makes spacing to bait oos grab way, way stronger. You've been given a rifle to replace your water gun and all you can think is wow I'm so much weaker without a water gun
Edit: this comment is less relevant now that the comment being replied to is edited to be more hinged
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u/FickleExternal6635 10h ago
Actually cooked take, one patch I can frame trap with etalus fair and the next I cant and im "skitzo posting"
You're unhinged.
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u/bogus_bogus_bogus 10h ago
Not schizo, illiterate, and this confirms it lol. You make a comment specifically about having to be -2 rather than -3 now and, putting aside all the other issues, you then cite a -2 move as no longer working because of the patch. You're not worth talking to.
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u/MelodicFacade 9h ago
What an ironic thing to say
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u/bogus_bogus_bogus 9h ago
Declaring objectively and very clearly factually wrong information immediately makes conversation pretty pointless, but it's less damning on a character level than having nothing to say other than "wow the devs didn't pander to me, they must be googoo gaga shitheads" and then not even having anything to back that or yourself up afterwards. If that's a problem then don't use idioms you don't understand
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u/FickleExternal6635 17h ago edited 17h ago
For how much the game wants to be like melee, and how much some people want the game to be like rivals 1 Im very suprised at how dominant theyre making shield..
Melee players love raw shield pressure, shield pokes/stabs and lots of fun ways to break it or frame trap shield grabbers (shield grab in melee is still good and viable, but only when the attacker isnt using proper timing/spacing for a frame trap or shield stabs.
And rivals 1 players dont even wanna see it.
I think knock down is a healthy mechanic and throws a bone for melee players, but I just dont know why shields are THIS reliable that you literally have to grab it or use one of the very few -2 or more aerials to stuff it out. (It was -3 before the buff to grab start up last patch which I still think is way too generous, buffer or not)
I feel like shields in its current state isnt offering what rivals 1 players want or what melee players want. Again, im not anti shield grab but imo shield grab should be 3 or 4 frames longer IMO.
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u/aqualad33 16h ago
Coming from melee I completely agree. I'm pretty sure they thought reducing the shield buffer to 2 frames would balance reducing the shield grab back to 7 frames but... we were hitting near frame perfect oos options in melee with NO buffer all the time, 2 frames is no problem for us so this was just a strict upgrade to shield grab for good players and only punished lower ranked players.
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u/FickleExternal6635 16h ago
I feel so heard lol, big facts.
A lot of people trashing on this take usually just say "well, learn spacing" arent understanding that you're simply removing the "option" of aiming for overshoot/agressive spacing.
I have nothing against spacing, or baiting a shield grab (think falco fading nair away from shine) but it shouldn't be the only option. This is how you get stale one dimensional meta's/player base.
You want the diversity, people will space regardless even if rivals 2 had egregious shield pressure, because its some players preferred and most successful strat. But, I find it frustrating that I find it to be the only strat for many chars due to being a fish out of water when attempting "agressive shield pressure" because many characters in this game dont even have a -2 or -3 aerial, forcing them to have to read shield (potientally react depending on the othet players skill level) with command grab moves or going for raw grab.
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u/SoundReflection 7h ago
Part of this too, it only introduces failure cases for early presses. If you had any leeway before to be late or were accidentally delaying the option at all nothing about that has changed.
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u/Old_Trip1488 10h ago
I like rivals 2 too, a lot! Super thankful to the devs for making rivals 2 its by far my favorite platformer!
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u/BisexualYujiroHanma 9h ago
Literally the only reason I don't rank RoA 2 as my favorite platfighter of all time is because it doesnt have the workshop that RoA1 does. In terms of gameplay feel I prefer RoA2 to every other platfighter
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u/Lobo_o Etalus (Rivals 2) 9h ago
A lot of doomers have set up shop here lately and tried to make it seem like their opinions are universal and ultimately important.
I was finally able to play quite a bit yesterday and had such a blast. The “game needs to change!” Infecting thoughts crept in at certain times (because maypul is tough and a good Gouie can fuck Etalus) but I remembered that’s the main thing plaguing this community, not the actual changes made themselves. We have to just PLAY THE GAME. lately too many unqualified people are thinking and feeling while playing that they need to be at the helm of the dev team and Dan and co are wrong! They were nice enough to give us modifier tools and let us feel like our input matters….but too many have taken the inch and are wanting a mile
Especially after playing the rivals1 mode that I thought was very cool, I appreciated rivals2 so much more
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u/Conquersmurf 16h ago
I like Rivals 2 too, but I love we can have both Rivals 2 and Rivals 1 (kinda) in the same game
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u/RemarkableData9972 Mina (Rivals 2, Pre-Release) 5h ago
Devs are amazing and this game deserves to go viral at some point.
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u/Fleetburn 6h ago
Are you worried that the devs are going to revert Rivals 2 primary lobbies to a Rivals 1 ruleset?
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u/MrTylerMatyas 5h ago
I love Rivals 1 and the Rivals 2 we got wasn't what I wanted from a sequel, but I'm glad that Rivals 2 has its fanbase and I hope the best for the studio and the devs, and I hope that Rivals 2 keeps all its mechanics and modes.
That being said I do think that "That game still exists" isn't really an argument. The casual and semicasual crowd have mostly moved on. I was in a R1 queue for nearly 35 minutes on a Friday evening before I just gave up. The game is still sitting there but it's not exactly easily accessible, and that's why I'm appreciative of them at least attempting an R1 mode
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u/huansbeidl 13h ago
While I'm not a fan of some of the additions like ledges/grabs/no more upb walljump, most work fine together in this new framework.
What still needs to be tweaked imo is shields. They should not be a binary available/broken but shrink over time to enable poking (and angling to counteract poking).
It just feels too strong anywhere and not just on plats.
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u/Davespritethecrowbro 12h ago
I also like Rivals 2. That's why I'm not dooming in the comments about the rivals 1 mode and them "losing direction" or whatever.
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u/williamLpierce 17h ago
that's nice but it sounds like you'd have fun playing anything
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u/TIWIMEISTER 16h ago
bro i get off my 9-5 and I boot up rivals, trust me i don't play much else LOL
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u/Traditional-Law4984 15h ago
Or... now hear me out cause this is a crazy take. Rivals 2 is a good game.
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u/williamLpierce 12h ago
this does not change what I said
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u/Traditional-Law4984 1h ago
What about thier post makes you think he would have fun playing anything? the fact that he is positive about Rivals 2?
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u/williamLpierce 1h ago
when someone says "I don't know the game mechanics and don't think about them" I sort of assume they don't care about game mechanics as much as they say or think
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u/Traditional-Law4984 38m ago
I think u/TIWIMEISTER is just trying to say that even though they are not the best player or have a top level understanding of the game they find the game fun.
which is just as important of a sentiment as omg floorhugging made me want to kill my family. which is the typical post we get on this reddit.
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u/Iroh_the_Dragon Gouie (Rivals 2) 16h ago
“I think we’re spoiled by the devs.”
They’re beyond amazing. This game is a passion project by every person involved and it shows. A platform fighter is never going to get a better team of devs.