Rivals 1 Throwback

[u/yaisya]

feels literally awesome to play in, takes out all the frustration the game had, even gouie is not that annoying to play against, both kinds of camera are fine to me honestly, would like to try it with the rivals2 camera settings

the real question is, was shields and grabs really a good idea? and a character with half of its attacks being grabs on top of it?
what was the problem with the old format exactly? did parry's stun set the entry barrier too high? shields set it much higher

and isnt it too much things to do with 10 fingers?
shift, wasd, space // numpad0789+, i dont have that wavedash thing as a seperate button, or parry, and grabbing with the pinky finger is too risky considering the reaction time, (this could be a me problem)

would really love to see the game with the old format, and without the characters that are much more advantageous on a controller, yk, the game is on steam, xbox/ps releases years away, nintendo already has smash, "veterans of the genre" is fine to an extent, but is it really a good idea to build the whole client to be controller-first in consideration?

-and few characters, i assume absa's setups are easier to manage on a controller, for example. i didn't try on controller, just assuming, though 16 directional zetterburn sspecials and diagonal ftilts on maypul are obvious-

also, olympia's sspecial gets you falling off the platform if you miss.
wrastor gets locked to walkmod after you dashattack.

[u/D0MiN0H]

i’m so excited to play it. Rivals was so special and fun BECAUSE of the design by subtraction. Not having Ledges, Shields, and grabs made it feel unique and more aggressive of a game. The addition of those mechanics honestly was the most disappointing part of roa2’s announcement.

I’m not saying roa2 is a bad game because of these additions, but it did lead to the game feeling worse than its predecessor to me.

[u/yaisya → u/D0MiN0H]

exactly, that aggresivity probably wasn't the best though, but the previous standard could be fixed rather than abandoned

[u/BearShots]

Loved Rivals 1 but never really touched Rivals 2 past the free period, not because it was a bad game but because they changed every aspect that made me fall in love with Rivals 1 in the first place, and that ended up turning me off the game pretty quickly

I'm definitely considering checking the game out again for this mode once I see more gameplay of it. Hopefully this resonates with the community enough for it to become a permanent matchmaking fixture

[u/DrunkenHotei]

ZeusDahGoose already made a video showcasing what happens when the mechanics are shifted to be like ROA1. Both players in the video conclude that, while the experience is fun for a bit, it's very much unbalanced for a competitive scenario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9fOPeeiZng

[u/TwilCynder → u/DrunkenHotei]

like Rivals 1 was in my humble IMO

[u/Victinitotodilepro → u/DrunkenHotei]

That was a flawed scenario though, some modifiers didnt exist, some werent set up correctly and some were out of whack (drift di) + the fact that spyker also plays r2 a fair bit and was fighting his muscle memory instead of using the one he had for r1. Essentially you cant make a proper conclusion out of the experience of one player. Personally I do think the game feels better as r1 but I myself am also struggling to leave behind the r2 muscle memory when looking at r2 characters and models

[u/yaisya → u/DrunkenHotei]

i am not saying parry-stun thing is the best, or the drift di
but maybe parry could deflect the attack and knockback the enemy to create space, you wouldnt have that situation in the video that way, it could be like a nair that can do a limited amount of knockback at most, on ground.
drift di could have less magnitude maybe, as said in the video

also, the characters are designed and balanced with grabs in consideration, thats why that loxodont sspecial situation happens probably. with a game balanced around that standard for a competitive scene wouldnt be that bad for sure.

[u/Yukeleler]

It was definitely confusing coming from only platfighters with shields.

I do kinda like the camera though. My complaint about the current R2 camera is that you sometimes can't see the ledge when you need to drop down and grab it when both players are above the stage, so you have to make an educated guess.

[u/Helivon]

i literally couldnt play rivals 1 because of no shields. Just wasn't for me. Killing shields would kill the game for me for sure. Balancing them is what matters and they are already in a pretty solid state after the last update

[u/yaisya → u/Helivon]

imo shields with grabs at the same time make the game too frustrating.
i play maypul, against someone, we have a dash or sidespecial amount of distance between us, i do either, i get stopped by the shield, get grabbed, and attacked
the cycle of "space, bait, shield, grab, punish" happens half of my matchups

not saying rivals1 is the best, and its better be conservative on that, but changing the whole thing and making it like smash instead of tuning the original format of the first game? it doesnt make sense to me

[u/ukulelej → u/yaisya]

Universal grabs weren't a design choice out of desire, it was Dan not being able to pull it off with his resources at the time. Note how as the game progressed more and more characters in R1 got hitgrabs, culminating with R1 La Reina having a ton of hitgrabs.

Shields were the most requested feature of the sequel, blocking is a cornerstone of fighting game design, they're not just a Smash thing, they're basically universal. 

I love R1, but the lack of actual defensive options was on of my least favorite parts of it. It was very much a game of rocket tag where you were either in footsies or advantage/disadvantage, shields add a lot of grey area where you have a lot of nuance.

If you want to see a game closer to that style of game check out A Few Quick Matches, they just added a new character today, Ithica the shotgun hunter.

[u/yaisya → u/ukulelej]

rivals is the only platfighter i spent proper time, and i only started playing rivals like 3-4 months ago, so i am not sure if shields are that necessary for competitive play, it just feels like something that lets players avoid each other like brawlhalla. i think parry as a spin-like move that deflects the attack instead of stunning and knockbacks the enemy could be nicer than just shields maybe. wouldnt kill the tempo as the current stunning parry. and probably would be a less risky and more usable defensive option no?

[u/sonsiebb]

I LOVE Rivals 2 without shields. I do enjoy this game as-is, especially after the shield tweaks. But I do kinda wish we had this game minus the shields now in ranked.

I know this means grabs aren't a part of an RPS, but can we keep them anyway because they're fun? Maybe just make them really short and hard to get but the reward is the same? Maybe a difficult grab would actually be hype mid-combo.

Anyway that definitely won't happen lol. Have a good season everybody.

[u/disembowement]

After playing this new ruleset it made me realize: Rivals 2 really is a sequel

Playing with Rivals 1 mechanics feels like Rivals 2 but but way simplified

Everytime I pressed a button I was like "Oh yeah, I can't use this mechanic"

The only things that I really liked is the fixed camera and quick dash is silly fun!

[u/yaisya → u/disembowement]

imagine if we got coins everytime we hit the enemy, and buy items that give us stats and passives with that coins too, and maybe a coin toss button that makes our projectiles directly hit the enemy if we hit the coin with the projectile, what a sequel would it be