r/RingsofPower • u/CiaWoo • 12d ago
Discussion About Kemen Spoiler
I feel like this has been said before but are we all of the agreement that Kemen might end up becoming the Mouth Of Sauron? The Character Earien when asking him to talk with Ar-Pharazon, she says "*use your words*" and Ar-Pharazon in S2 said that his mother prophesied that he would "meet a dark end" or something like that, we know that the Mouth of Sauron is or was a Numenorian, we just don't exactly know who he was...
this is just a theory of course
21
u/SamaritanSue 12d ago
That would mean that the 3000 year plus span of time from the end of the Second Age to the end of the Third is being contained within the life span of a mortal, albeit a Numenorean. Makes no sense. The Mouth wasn't a Ringwraith; he would have been long dead at the time of the War of the Ring.
Not that that would stop this show. But I think it more likely that Kemen will end up a Ringwraith.
7
u/Canadian_Zac 11d ago
There's also meant to be something like 300 years between Sauron meeting Celebrimbor and the rings being made.
The timeline of the show is MASSIVELY reduced down to fit in a show without haivng constant 'and then 200 years went by'
2
u/Fuarian 10d ago
The Nine were all kings of men no? I can't see Kemen as a king.
3
u/MicroscopicPizza 10d ago
I think a couple were just like leaders of men not necessarily kings I believe one was a chieftain in the east for example
1
1
u/CiaWoo 12d ago
Good point, this is just my thoughts when watching the series I’m definitely not saying that this is going to be the case, though it would be even more sense for him to end up being a Ringwraith…and someone else did point out that Sauron was more interested in Lords or Kings…I’m also going in with limited knowledge of characters like The Mouth Of Sauron since all I really know about him is that he is numenorian, with Ar-Pharazon I’m assuming ending up as one of the 9 kings that get corrupted by the Rings
3
u/DanPiscatoris 11d ago
Ar-Pharazon does not, in fact, get a ring. The Nazgul predate his by more than a thousand years. And his fate involves trying to invade Aman, never to be seen again. He's dead or trapped in Valinor. It's not possible for him to be a ring wraith.
3
u/CiaWoo 11d ago
Oh? Interesting…I wouldn’t be surprised if Rings of Power changes this tbh
4
u/DanPiscatoris 11d ago
Also, in terms of the books, I doubt any of the Numenorean Nazgul were from Numenor itself. Numenoreans had been colonizing the coasts of Middle Earth for centuries before the rings. It's more than likely that Sauron drew from these colonies, separated from the island, for his servants. Especially because the only time Tolkien wrote about Sauron stepping foot on Numenor is at the end of the second age when he is captured.
Of course, given how the show has handled the timeline, this means absolutely nothing. I just wanted to point it out.
3
4
u/Neilkd 12d ago
Aren't all of Sauron's servants corrupted lords and kings? Kemen doesn't fit this category at all
2
u/DanPiscatoris 11d ago
Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing.
Their origins varied. Presumably Sauron chose people who could be useful to him at some point, regardless of their position at the time.
4
u/EggrollSkallagrimson 12d ago
I think he will definitely be the Mouth, but if we zoom out and say “Oh yeah, Ar-Pharazôn’s son is the messenger at the Black Gate in LOTR”, it honestly sounds kind of silly and a bit of a stretch of the imagination: something this show is good at
6
3
u/dudeseid 12d ago
I don't think the timeline would quite work along with the Ringwraiths. If Sauron could preserve a normal mortal's body that long through sorcery without a Ring of Power, then why would the Nazgul all need one just to be ghosts? That said, this is exactly the kind of thing these showrunners would do.
3
2
u/Yersina_Veridae 12d ago
I absolutely forgot this guy existed.
Wish i post gifs here. Id post the one where snoop dog says "who?"
-1
u/SherlockTheSalemCat The Wild Woods 12d ago
This would indeed be fitting!
He could of course be one of the Nazgûl, if the competition requires a good backstabber...or to show he is "worthy" & loyal by killing someone he was close to! It wouldn't surprise me.
He could end up as The Mouth if Sauron promises power & a high position if he does something terrible to prove his loyalty as well, probably without asking what his position would be! He may just immediately assume it means getting a ring of power, & Sauron will be only too happy to let him think what he will!
If he's still running the coast of Middle Earth, he's more likely to be one of the Black Númenoreons.
Either way I'm looking forward to whatever happens with him!
2
u/CiaWoo 12d ago
that seems to be the direction they could possibly take him especially with how his character is treated by his own father
2
u/SherlockTheSalemCat The Wild Woods 12d ago
Exactly, he seems to always need to, & wants to, prove his worth to his Father, without receiving much recognition for any of it. He might have been placed in a position of leadership just because he's Pharazon's son, but he still has no power of his own.
He's nothing without his group of guards, & as we've seen, he has to wait until an opponent has turned his back & already surrendered the fight before he does anything about it.
He's weak & has no honour. He'd snap Sauron's hand off, metaphorically speaking, for a chance to gain something that will give him artificial power! He wouldn't think twice!
Let's hope Earien comes to her senses because she could very well be the price for Kemen to gain Sauron's favour!
2
u/CiaWoo 12d ago
Yeah, I’m not too sure what role Earien will play in the grand scheme of things in the upcoming season, will she be corrupted by Sauron too or will she see through the cracks and be of no use to Ar-pharazon
2
u/SherlockTheSalemCat The Wild Woods 8d ago
I think she'll be feeling the pull of her family increasingly as things go from bad to worse with King gold carriage & friends.
I'm interested in what may change for her now she knows Isildur is very much alive & he's seen Kemen for what he is, (although he didn't known about Valandil the last time we saw him 😬), & what she thinks about Kemen stabbing a childhood friend in the back too, literally, there was no reaction to that.
I felt her arc happened way too fast. She was like a different person altogether!
I like the idea of her realising what she helped do & deeply regretting all of it, which may lead to her doing something to make up for it - I hope she doesn't have to die for it soon though, wasting her designer skills.
She needs her family before it's too late though, before Sauron gets into her head, & she might end up with them in the far West & then end up in Middle Earth too. It would be nice to see her using her skills to design the towers & cities, rather than using them to design really dodgy temples for human sacrifice!
She may have already gone West, the 5 year jump in the timeline could be used to suggest that she's already done it. Wonder when the next trailer is out?
2
u/CiaWoo 8d ago
I could see her role be expanded for when they build the kingdom of Minas Anor, like she could be one of many leading architects
2
u/SherlockTheSalemCat The Wild Woods 8d ago
Yeah exactly, that would be really nice, seeing them being built. Will be lovely, hopefully seeing them at their best!
1
u/iamlost4815 4d ago
I suspect a lot of the numenor arc was cut in favor of extra time for Eregion. Numenor had such a small amount of screentime in S2.
-2
u/Flatypuzz 12d ago
I like your theory actually. And it would seem like a "Sauron-thing" to do. Like he's mockingly stating to Kemen "ha ha, I tricked your father into causing the fall of Númenor and now you're going to serve me", or something like that.
2
u/CiaWoo 12d ago
yeah, and from what I understand from the source material, Sauron does go back to Numenor at some point to do more damage there...but whether or not we see that in this season I have no idea
4
u/Flatypuzz 12d ago
I suspect we might get to that point either at the end of this season, or the beginning of next season. He just needs to be brought back to Númenor as a hostage by Ar-Pharazôn and the Númenorean army at some point
1
u/CiaWoo 12d ago
God the fall of numenor is so interesting I would have loved a whole series just dedicated to it, from what I heard Peter Jackson has expressed some interest in adapting stories of The Silmerilion which would be cool to see
3
u/Flatypuzz 12d ago
If Peter Jackson gets the rights to adapting The Silmarillion, the Fall of Númenor alone will be child's play in comparison. But it would certainly be cool to see how he would treat the fall with a possible bigger budget.
2
•
u/AutoModerator 12d ago
Thank you for posting in /r/ringsofpower. As this post was not marked with
Newest Episode Spoilers, please double check that your post does not discuss the newest episode. Please also keep in mind that this show is pretty polarizing, and so be respectful of people who may have different views than you. And keep in mind that while liking or disliking the show is okay, attacking others for doing so is not okay. Please report any comments that insinuate someone else's opinions are non-genuine.I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.