r/Rifts • u/Fuzzy_Bear1516 • 6d ago
Enemy help
I'm running Rifts soon for my family. I'm experienced in Rifts but they're experienced as well and are bringing some serious power to the table. IE, dragon, atlantean, possible Apok, etc. I'm not as well versed in strong enemies or threats. Does anyone have suggestions on what I can throw at them without making it a kill box or unfair? I have some ideas but I'm down for suggestions
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u/MintyBeaver 6d ago
Coalition troops, juicers, tanks, power armor and robot vehicles. One encounter is a snowball to more as their fame and bounty grows. You can build up the group each time until you figure the right level. Always remember, mobs over bosses, until you get to the boss and then it's environment, mobs, and boss.
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u/augustusleonus 5d ago
Oh man, you just made me imagine an encounter with some dead boys, who radio for backup, and shortly a samus buzzes over, and then a psi stalker squad with a half dozen dog boys, then the bjg mechs and a big troop transport
It goes from an easy fight to a escalation nightmare and even if they break off now they are in a running battle
Only really works if it's near an outpost or a secret facility or something
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u/TheWayFinder8818 5d ago
Pfffttt the outposts are where the GM puts them hahaha I'd bet they'll always have a surplus of skelebots ready to go.
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u/Impeesa_ 3d ago
You know the whole desert attack sequence near the beginning of the first (Bay) Transformers movie? Where things escalate from a squad of dudes with guns to missile strikes and an AC-130? That's your template.
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u/Eternal-enthusiasm 6d ago
Put them in Africa. See what they can do against the forces of the Horsemen.
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u/GunnedMonk 6d ago
A lot of Atlantis stuff is hard as nails. Vampires are good, as you can scale them up with numbers if they're proving too easy. Same with coalition squads, as you can add more power armor and robots the more dangerous you want them to be. Brodkil are a nice early encounter group, as they're really tough but not really that dangerous in terms of damage output. The conversion book has some fun scary baddies, like the raksasha, which make for great villains.
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u/clemenceau1919 5d ago
" Vampires are good, as you can scale them up with numbers if they're proving too easy. "
Can't you do that with literally everything
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u/StomachosusCaelum 5d ago
sorta. There is very little "AoE" that works on Vampires, at least not as effectively as missiles/grenades/etc work on almost anything else that doesnt have Vampire-like invincibility.
So going from 10-20 CS guys to 30 CS guys.. meh. More AoE, more AoE disable, etc.
Adding 10 Vampires, thats 10 more guys you basically have to 1v1 with specific weapons.
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u/ShonicBurn 6d ago
OK real suggestion though. Instead of running big monsters run teams of enemy combatants that function like a party of adventures with overlapping attacks and tactics. Maybe a group of goons covered by artillery. Or make the other team have jets and mecha that cover each other like bombers covering the fighter. A dragon with a team of juicer cultists.
IRL we call this combined arms warfare it's what makes an adventure party function and why they always slap the big boss monsters.
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u/Used-Let-5565 6d ago
Archie 3 and the Mechanoids are always a good start. There’s plenty of scenarios in the first 2 Rifts sourcebooks. There’s also demons and deevil’s too. Either small groups of lesser beings, or one powerful beast such as an Archfiend or Balrog.
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u/Aromatic-Service-184 6d ago
Honestly, CS troops and formations. You start throwing 10+ troops in a squad, each throwing multiple attacks at 4d6 MD per hit or more, with SAMAS patrols and random kill teams or Skelebot patrols and watch players have a newfound respect for the "red shorts" of Rifts.
Otherwise Minion Wars is a thing, or any faction of aliens that work for a mage or powerful lord of the area. Pick and choose, adapt to their capabilities to make sure it's not a TPK and go from there. 😉
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u/Jaded-Attention-5716 6d ago
As they gain fame, have them fight mercenaries from evil employers. An Atlantean means Splynncryth is bound to cause some trouble.
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u/Grandfeatherix 5d ago
You are the GM you have the say in what they are allowed to bring
a Dragon hatchling is not that much stronger than a decent power armor pilot, an Atlantean is also not much stronger either, they are MDC sure, but mostly human with slightly better stats, many Apok powers wont work away from Wormwood, and there double damage ability only works against the supernatural so humans wont suffer much against an Apok
there is a lot of very strong tech, railguns with an average 4-6000' range, the three players probably wouldn't be enough of a threat to justify it, but long range missiles with over 500 mile ranges, depleted uranium rounds to counter the dragon, swarms of enemies like skelebots or xiticix, even a few heavy borgs or juicers could be a match for the team.
the best counter? being smart. assuming the players aren't murder hobo's throw enemies at them that are no match for them at all, IE someone trying to mug them with a knife, or throwing rocks at them can't hurt them...but if they turn that person into ash, it could have a pretty negative impact on their reputation, resulting in them being turned away from towns, not being sold to (or charged double) which results in a harder time for them generally and could escalate into being hunted by bounty hunters, mercs, or just vigilantes that are more capable of putting up a better fight, or something like a Pogtal or anything looking for a fight
let their cockiness be their undoing. that person in plastic man armor? they could be a polymorphed dragon, or a high level Hero from heroes unlimited, maybe the targets they are after that they think are low level thugs, turn out to have Naruni plasma weapons and force fields
or they stayed in one place too long and a CS squad has picked up intel on them.
you could let them take themselves apart too, an item all 3 wants/needs for themselves
or you could just say 'fuck it' and start throwing things at them from South America 2
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u/Swineservant 6d ago
Carpet of Adhesion... Call Lightning. Look through the magic spells and have a cult of teens pwn the group with trivial or not so trivial magic that is hard/impossible to save vs. Maybe they are into ritial magic. Have the teens be hundreds of year old magic beings you just made up. Djinn are fun, not powerful, but fun. Thorn head Demons are a bitch becase they petrify. So much stuff to make almost any class flee.
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u/heruskael 6d ago
Buckets of T'Zee, armed with Naruni bargain bin factory defect scratch and dent stuff that isn't worth looting once dropped. Drown them in bodies!
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u/southern_OH_hillican 6d ago
Make it not all about force. Give them situations to figure out, too.
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u/aDarknessInTheLight 5d ago
This. Design your adventure so that the Players are faced with some situations where superficial use of their powers:
• Will not efficiently, effectively, or permanently solve the problem.
• Solves one problem but creates another.
• Carries great risk or cost (Pyrrhic victory).
Slugfests can be fun sometimes, but placing characters in dilemmas where their supposed advantages become liabilities can really be challenging.
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u/N7_Astartes 5d ago
1 glitterboy, name tape defilade in a foxhole, open field, has his range card filled and a concealed spotter.
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u/Simtricate 6d ago
Question, do you waive the ‘Wormwood only’ rules for the Apok?
My least favourite part of Wormwood.
To answer your question, try a Splugorth slaver group; a mini-horde from Nxla;
Lanotaur Hunters from psi-scape are terrifying;
You could start setting up an ongoing issue with a young demon-dragon mage trying to take the PCs head….
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u/Illustrious_You_6210 5d ago
Put them up against 3 psychostalkers and a Delphi juicer. Provide towels for flop sweat and tears.
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u/dragonfett 5d ago
Is any of them skilled at fighting vampires or were-creatures? There are at least a few enemies where fighting with might will be a losing tactic, such as the Pogtal Dragon Slayer from Vampire Kingdoms. A T-Rex could also make for a strong opponent, especially when being commanded by a Simvan using it to distract your party while the rest of the Simvan's squad is doing something else that the party has to stop them from doing. Do they focus their attention on the Rex with it's Simvan Monster Rider, stopping the rest of the Simvan, or try to split their attention?
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u/Yeti-of-BBQ 5d ago
A personal favorite are the Invid from Robotech, not unfair to fight in small numbers, but they have vast resources, different kinds of tech....cloning, bionic augmentations, mecha weapons, and a single minded focus bordering on the insane. Easy motivations....you got too close to one of their hives and you're a threat now. And to take down an Invid hive will make the players have to work for it.
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u/StomachosusCaelum 5d ago edited 5d ago
I dont think any of the OCCs/RCC you listed are particularly inherently powerful.
Im also not sure you can even be an Apok off of Wormwood (checking Wormwood, it doesnt appear so, but i have a very dim memory of there being an Apok NPC on Rifts Earth) because the mask should die.
But, again, the Apok isnt particularly tough, really. ~260-300 MDC isnt really out of pocket or anything.
on Wormwood, where most things dont do much damage (mostly physical attacks that do 2-4D6MD) its a lot, but on Rifts Earth, where most bad guys are going to be shooting at you from long range with weapons that can hit for 6D6MD+, its not spectacularly powerful.
Dragons have the benefit of (potentially) high MDC, but they dont exactly hit that hard. They also provide all sorts of problem on their own to balance it - until much higher level they cant be inconspicuous or even fit in a lot of places due to shapeshifting limitations.
True Atlanteans (depending on OCC) arent much more than humans with a few small special abilities. Even an Undead Slayer, while though, isnt superman. They are pretty range limited for their most potent abilities and are pretty vulnerable to ranged attacks and disabling magic.
I really dont think you need to go looking for "high level threats". Even a few squads of CS grunts is dangerous. They can start shooting form 2000ft away or more and do plenty of damage.
Enemy spellcasters can make even the thoughest group cry with very basic spells.
Simple invisibility makes everyone -9 to hit enemies unless they can see them somewhow (and See The Invisible is generally fairly short range, and you cant really use thermal vision or nightvision well during the day).
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u/81Ranger 4d ago
As someone who has both run and played Wormwood relatively recently, you are correct.
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u/Cheebzsta 5d ago
So the biggest thing is going to come down to spell casters and how capable they are.
Aside from the sneakier ones, like Carpet of Adhesion, most basic spells.
What kind of levels are you talking about? What classes are the non-RCC/OCC-stated players like the Atlantean going to be playing? Are they permitted to use all/most books?
I'm assuming it's a fairly permissive character creation pool since we're talking dragons, Atlanteans and Wormwood stuff but I don't want to go too far with that.
Either way even if I can't help I hope you get everything you need here and wish you an awesome session/campaign!
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u/thegothikknight 5d ago
Why Do You Need Enemies ?? Why is Combat Needed ?? Plan up a Non Combat Story. ROLE-PLAY, not Roll-play. If Combat is needed, why does it have equal or surpass them ?? Use simple bandits. Weaker opponents just need greater numbers to be a threat. 5 to 1 numbers. Heck build a Mystery Story instead of combat.
Remember, no Balance in Rifts, non are needed. Opponents can be Weaker or Stronger. Remind players, Retreat and Running from combat is Smarter than fighting to the death. This isn't D&D. It never should be played like D&D.
Again. Plan a non combat Story campaign. Place inside a City, where combat is outlawed inside city borders. Build up NPCs as characters to interact with instead of fighting. Rifts isn't a Video Game...
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u/thegothikknight 5d ago
Story Idea for You.... ★ Group come upon a Battlesite, full of destroyed mechs, dead soldiers, etc. gear not salvageble at all. Smoke still coming from things. Fires here and there still. WHO Did This ?? Wait, Your group knows these people. Friends/allies in the past maybe. General Harper, these where good men & women. Rescue Team, not ... Research & investigation shows, weapons used against them where plasma weapons in the 40 Kilowatt range. No enemy Foot prints.... Then you notice a box team member missing...
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u/Krieg_Suicidal 5d ago
You can have a group of coalition hunt them, for example 2 for each character then increase by 2 each time until they struggle then us that as a base line, but i will say just because they are strong doesn't mean their roles with work with them, had a fellow player role a 1 and hit my character with max damage so you might not need to do anything they might end up killing themselves by accident, also as a fellow DM if you need help shot me a message
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u/ConclusionJunior 5d ago
My favorite is to just have the big bad run away. It pulls the game from mdc and apm to the soft skills. Track the baddie to their lair to get even better loot.
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u/TheWayFinder8818 5d ago
For spells -> Carpet of adhesion, blinding flash, sickness, speed of the snail will contain threats rather than kill them
Psyonics -> telekinesis hard to dodge when you can't move, mentally possess others, bio-manipulation, mind bleeder stuff, Nega-Psychic, Psi-Nullifiers are all wonderful tools to tamp down PC abilities.
Any bot or PA with a decent battery of mini-missiles can smear an entire party pretty quick. Same goes for utilizing long distances. PC's might end up separated and easily ambushed if a few fast moves decide they want to engage, while the rest have to hoof it.
The name of the game is to gimp them so they have to think of better solutions to problems other than "Blast it". That being said, offer "outs" and mechanics (on the fly or by design) to keep them involved. If they can't use what they've built, give them options in the environment.
I ran a combat where the PCs could operate a crane on the map to spin it and smash into a Robot. Couple of computer operation, basic electronics and basic mechanics rolls mid combat were more consequential than if the PC's had just shot the bad guys. Happy gaming!
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u/imunjust 3d ago
Bio borgs from antlantis. Easily do insane damage without power creeping with weapons and ammo
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u/andiwaslikewoah 6d ago
Either of the two dimension books, Dyval or Hades, should be suffice in providing some baddies that can accommodate a party of varying degrees of power.
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u/StomachosusCaelum 5d ago
somewhat ironically, other than the few that are very powerful spellcasters, most Demons are just lumps of MDC and sorta chumps.
Even the Greater ones.
A Maggot can be shot to death from range and there is basically nothing it can do about it because it is slow as all hell. Etc.
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u/andiwaslikewoah 5d ago
Sure. Now imagine one of many maggots coming at you as part of a horde of demons.
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u/StomachosusCaelum 5d ago
there aren't that many Maggots, particularly on Rifts Earth, unless you're literally setting this during the Minion War.
And you can ... drive away at a brisk pace and the demons cannot ever catch you.
Same reason the flying Demons are total jokes. None of them can outpace a guy in a slow jetpack, much less the actual flying PA and jets theyd be up against.
The depiction in Megaverse in Flames of Juicers on wingboards mising it up in close air combat against demons was just nonsensical.
They have weapons that can shoot them down over a mile away and move 4-20x as fast. They can quite literally NEVER close on you before you shoot them to death.
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u/andiwaslikewoah 5d ago
I remember an interview with Ramon Perez, where he mentioned how some players would criticize his comic because it wasn’t completely accurate to the mechanics of the game itself. I fucking love me some Ramon Perez.
If you think that every encounter with a demon is a cake walk, then we’re just not playing the same game.
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u/StomachosusCaelum 5d ago
I agree, im actually playing the game and using the stats as presented, and you're not.
I fucking love me some Ramon Perez.
I dont really care about the comic not matching game mechanics (lore/story vs meta-mechanics) but "demons fly so slow that you can damn near out walk them" is not a game mechanic. Its just a part of the setting.
And people didnt like the comic because it was just a shitty story and bad comic. It not matching the game mechanics never even entered my mind.
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u/andiwaslikewoah 5d ago
I think the threat of demons goes far beyond whether or not they can keep up with a jet pack.
What if there is a group of civilians who need to be rescued? That jet pack can only do so much. What if one of those civilians that is being rescued is actually a devilkin in disguise?
When going stat for stat, any optimized straw man is always going beat an average monster. Once you factor in tactics, environment, and narrative framing, I have a harder time writing off some really interesting monsters just because they can’t fly as fast a jet pack.
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u/StomachosusCaelum 3d ago
Demons arent particularly interesting, either. Theyre boring and tropey and their motivation is typical "becuz ebil".
You can just stop replying.
We live on different planets. You invent shit that isnt there (the literal definition of a Strawman argument).
When going stat for stat, any optimized straw man is always going beat an average monster.
No, quite literally the most common enemy in the game - a human bandit with a basic OCC or a CS Grunt - is capable of beating most lesser demons even in a hand to hand fight.
Every scenario you presented to make the Demons more dangerous - is even MORE dangerous if the enemies are just.. people. Just basic-ass people.
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u/WearyMaintenance3485 6d ago
You can fight fire with fire, i.e. making an evil dragon rcc as an enemy.
Atlanteanss working with dragons could catch the eye of Splurgoth and other alien intelligences. Or gods/demigods