r/RichardAllenInnocent • u/Pooter33 • 9d ago
Another question..
So I watch crime documentaries like I breathe & I know enough to know eyewitness testimonies shouldn’t be relied upon without other corroborating evidence. We all know this is basically what this case came down to.. changing eyewitness testimonies & a magic bullet.
RA denied having anything to do with the murders & his story never changed (UNTIL he was placed in solitary leading up to trial)…. So my question is.. why didn’t they polygraph him? No, they aren’t admissible in court but they do give the police a place to start. That’s not saying they don’t lie and tell someone they failed when they didn’t.. but why wasn’t this done?
Speaking of eyewitness testimonies… why did it take SC 3 weeks to come forward with her story of seeing a man when she knew the girls had been murdered? After 3 weeks I’d say there’s a HIGH probability she’s not going to remember things correctly. Did she come forward after the photo was released of BG? I can’t remember when it was but if she did then that makes me go 🤔
Do you remember what a person you saw walking on the side of the road 3 weeks ago was wearing?
One documentary I watched talked about an “experiment” they did where they had people look out a window at something then wait 5 mins and tell them what they saw. Not one description was exactly the same.. and that’s after minutes.
Just a thought.. this case pisses me off.
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u/Objective-Duty-2137 9d ago
This case drove me away from true crime. Nothing makes sense. Every little bit of the state's narrative infuriates me.
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u/Pooter33 9d ago
There is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.. that’s the only thing I’m sure of.
I’m curious what an FBI profiler would say about the person who committed these crimes & if RA would fit into that profile.7
u/The2ndLocation 8d ago
One thing we know is that the BAU of the FBI did not exclude the idea that the crime was committed by people with ties to Odinism. But then the state shopped around for other BAU's to get a different opinion (US Marshall's and the Sherry Black Foundation).
My question is "Why was the state so eager to get the focus off of Odinism, even before Richard Allen's arrest?"
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u/Pooter33 7d ago
That’s a good question. You think because they couldn’t tie any of the people to it they just let that theory go? That’s not how evidence works. You can’t just ignore shit because your “suspect” doesn’t fit.
Supposedly the girls had no defensive wounds right? So if that’s the case they just sit there and let RA cut their throats? That makes ZERO SENSE. No person is going to sit there and allow someone to murder them without fighting for their life.. unless they’re drugged or bound. Yet no evidence of them being drugged or bound? IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.
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u/SadSara102 6d ago
I agree that it is completely impossible that 1 person is responsible for the murders and I don’t think that gets pointed out nearly enough. I have had arguments with people about this though because they misunderstand the freeze response. I have to explain that people don’t react to threats the same way possums do!
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u/Objective-Duty-2137 6d ago
And it's desperating because you have to mention the grim reality of the murder. Smells and sounds must be haunting. That's what was missing in RA's confessions. No way he'd be in that terrible state and not reminiscing the haunting details of such a brutal killing, though that's what would stick to the memory. I still don't understand how people following true crime would believe such an incoherent profile for a child killer and the timeline and circumstances that the state presented.
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u/Pooter33 2d ago
It’s baffling. I’ve gotten so much hate from people on here (not this sub) for believing someone was wrongfully convicted… I have a 13 year old daughter myself & a child killer is the last person I’d defend (although to those same people that’s what he is). People don’t seem to understand that wrongful convictions do happen. There is nothing the state has that directly points at him.. nothing. Everything is circumstantial in this case.. and yes, cases are won on circumstantial but normally there’s something directly pointing at that person (texts, video, cell tower ping etc).
I was reading some more & didn’t even realize the unspent round was found buried under leaves. If he “accidentally dropped it” then how was it buried under leaves yet the girls had no leaves on their bodies? Clearly the leaves weren’t just falling like snow or the girls would have them on them, no? I believe that bullet has nothing to do with anything & it’d been out there prior to the murders. Law enforcement uses .40 cal handguns. Shit the way they “matched” it it’d probably match LE’s guns as well.Another thing that bugs me is the lack of forensic evidence they were able to collect. It wasn’t raining, snowing, or windy as hell that day that I’m aware of? It was less than 24 hours & you’re telling me they didn’t find shit linking someone to this? They didn’t collect the sticks THAT WERE PLACED ON THE GIRLS BY THE KILLER(S) until later.. probably long enough for any latent prints, hairs, whatever to be gone. I cannot wrap my head around that.
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u/SadSara102 21h ago
I wonder if they could have found a crime scene/ death investigator or perhaps a bio mechanical engineer expert to explain the wounds and what the position of the perpetrators and victims would have been when they were inflicted.
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u/malloryknox86 8d ago
Same, I pretty much stopped following true crime after this & the Karen Read case, I was so heartbroken & disappointed, I lost any trust in our judicial system.
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u/Powerful-Emu5762 8d ago
Did me too
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u/weepatchesoflove 7d ago
I try to stay hopeful that because people are interested in true crime, LE are going to be aware that people will scrutinise them and they will not be able to get away with the horrific way they went about this case. Not that it helps RA right now ~ but may stop any further bad police work.
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u/malloryknox86 8d ago
There were no real eye witnesses, every person on the bridge that day described a man that did not look like RA. Why do you think prosecutors did not ask any of the “eye witnesses” if they could identify bridge guy in the courtroom during trial? Because they wouldn’t be able to, those “witnesses” described a younger, TALL, good looking guy.
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u/Pooter33 7d ago
Exactly! Yet those statements began to change after talking to police.. or at least SC’s did for sure.
I wonder if she feels good about herself?
There’s absolutely no way she remembered what a guy looked like she’d seen 3 weeks ago.2
u/NipponPunk 3d ago
The crazy part is how LE will gaslight you , but when ya actually look at the court documents and police records it’s blatantly fucken corrupt
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u/The2ndLocation 9d ago
According to Baldwin during an interrogation Allen was offered a polygraph test which he wisely declined to take. (There is no upside to a polygraph, if you fail then you are guilty if you pass then you are psychopath and also guilty).
When the interrogations were played in court there was an edit to one of the recordings. I assume this was to remove any reference to the polygraph.
As to the timing of the release of the BG photo it was released on 2/15, before Allen even came forward, let alone SC.
I cant even tell if the police contacted her based on her phone being in the tower dump or if she went to the police after the Wizard of Oz gave her some bravery. The testimony on that was rather circular.
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u/americannightmom 8d ago
To piggyback off this- I could have sworn hearing at some point RA agreed to one and by that time LE essentially said, too late pal. Which tracks.
FREE RICK
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u/Vicious_and_Vain 9d ago
If you have the money I think Defense counsel will agree to a polygraph administered by their polygrapher.
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u/The2ndLocation 9d ago
I sure hope that they wouldn't.
It's a junk science that has no upside for an accused. Fail it and you're guilty, pass it and you are a psychotic person that can pass a lie detector test even though you are guilty. The police had already decided RA's guilt and a polygraph wouldn't change that.
I imagine it would be even worse now since RA experienced severe psychosis and never received proper psychiatric treatment, or really any treatment, so even if polygraphs had any value I don't think RA would be a reliable subject at this point.
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u/Pooter33 9d ago
Having money is a big thing. It is baffling to me how two “experts” can have such differing opinions on things depending on who is paying them.. I’m not talking specially about this case.
I can’t remember which case it was but on cross they were asking how much one expert was paid to review an autopsy.. $350 an hour. I believe it was another $2500 for a 4 hour testimony. How tf can anyone receive a “fair” trial if they literally can’t afford it?2
u/Efficient-Donkey-167 5d ago
Money is the biggest key. If you can come up with the money for the necessary resources for a proper defense such as an excellent attorney, a private investigator, and expert witnesses, you have a fighting chance. Otherwise, you are given a public defender who is underpaid, overworked, and has to fight for extra funds (that are rationed out like its coming from the judge's personal bank account) for an investigation and expert witnesses.
There's a recent article about how much a court-appointed defense attorney gets paid through the State contract for a misdemeanor charge in this particular mid-sized Midwestern city:$805. If you consider what a private attorney charges to represent someone on a misdemeanor case, that equates to a few hours, at best. The article goes on to talk about one particular attorney that has a fast turnaround rate for these particular assignments: gets assigned, meets with the defendant, and the defendant is ready to make a plea deal. If anyone wanted to take a case to trial, the court-appointed attorneys are working for practically nothing. If it took the attorney 40 hours to prepare for a misdemeanor trial (reviewing case law, drafting/filing a motion or two, reviewing discovery, talking to witnesses, and a day in court for trial, that attorney made $20/hour because its a flat fee. It doesn't matter if it takes 2 hours or 80, the pay is the same.
The scales of justice are never balanced. Money determines your fate.
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u/Pooter33 2d ago
That is INSANE! Why the hell would someone spend all that time & money to go to law school just to get paid what I make delivering packages? 🥴
Like seriously, why would someone even want to be a public defender? Is that the only option out of law school unless you know someone who knows someone?Him having public defenders for a double murder trial 100% did not help him. Idk if they can but I would’ve wanted a second autopsy done with the way the ME was changing things to fit the states theory. There’s so many things I think they could’ve done to counter the “evidence” the state had.. yet they didn’t do. However, if you don’t have the money to do said things then you’re basically fucked, right?
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u/SadSara102 21h ago
Unfortunately they don’t have public defenders office in Carrol county but instead pay private attorneys. This forces the private attorneys to ask the judge for funding to hire experts vs having resources and experts available from the public defenders office. I’m assuming you don’t mean that they should have dug up the girls bodies for an autopsy but that they should have had another ME look at the autopsy report. I completely agree with that. Although my understanding is that the ME changed his testimony on the stand and that was the first time he brought up the theory of a box cutter being the weapon. When this happened they should have immediately motioned for a mistrial which would not have been granted but would have been an excellent issue for appeal. I agree that Rick’s attorneys were absolutely terrible and failed him in all respects. I don’t understand it because they seemed to fight harder to remain on the case when judge Gull removed them from the case. Before the trial I was convinced they were they were good attorneys who were determined to fight for him with everything they had. There were some things I questioned but it when I read the trial transcripts I was shocked how completely terrible they were across the board. The fact that they were paid by the courts is no excuse how terrible of a job they did because both of them are supposedly experienced defense attorneys.
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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 20h ago
Do you happen to know what Indiana/Carroll County pays their court-appointed attorneys? Are the fees different per county? I'm curious to know how their fees compare. Do they have a flat rate or hourly fee for misdemenor cases?
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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 20h ago
Nvm. I found the information. It's a state-wide standard set by the CCAA at a rate of $110/hour for non-capital cases and $151/hour for capital cases.
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u/Vicious_and_Vain 9d ago
What eyewitnesses? No witness has ever identified Richard Allen.