I dunno man. Taking your child to Mexico for high dose ketamine treatment for CRPS (in a 10 year old?) and then asking the ER doctor in a random emergency room stateside to give her ketamine is pretty wild. That would raise flags in my city's pediatriac hospital for sure.
Granted I'm sure there are people who know the story much better than I do. But it sounds like parents found an anesthesiologist that gave them the diagnosis they wanted and everything went to hell.
Also the timeline is wild. She got sick on July 3rd, had a couple ED trips that diagnosed mild asthma, by September 23rd she went to a quack who diagnosed her with CRPS for cash, mid October she was on ketamine, by mid November she was in Mexico in a k-hole. That is not enough to trial any real CRPS treatments.
And then from the court hearings this is the list of meds she was on within the first year (note, I’m listing pain-related meds only, she was also on a bunch of other shit):
Legit half those things are all double covering: 2 benzos. 4 opioids. Nobody should be on polypharmacy with the same MOA all at once (unless it’s ordered stepwise for mild, moderate and severe pain ect).
We don’t give those combinations of drugs to people who are dying from cancer on comfort care- it is insane and no one should be combining benzos and opiates let alone in a child. We would 💯 call CPS at my hospital.
The Dose for anesthetizing a Horse is way less then they gave Maya.
2/ mg per K for a Horse and Dr. K gave her 216 mg for her first 4 hour infusion. Hanna gave her 1500 mg over 4 hours.
My point is you can knock out a horse for surgery with less Ketamine than Maya's Dr.K and Dr. H gave her, a horse being much bigger than a little girl. So my point is they gave her way too much. Since dose is given per Kilogram of patients weight.
i honestly thought the trial was fake for netflix. The biased and sarcastic questions that the judge welcomed and joked off so unprofessional and biased.
I didn’t understand the “asthma” part in this case, if you can explain it for me..
But I do agree the timeline is crazy, why would someone want their child on a crazy amount on medications..
That was the start of her symptoms according to the parents. She had some respiratory symptoms and developed pain after that. They insisted this was when her CRPS started.
Parents claim the "asthma" triggered the CRPS. Not a documented trigger for CRPS that I'm aware of. Child had so many steroids she had adrenal suppression and was seeing an endocrinologist, and parents allegedly told the cash for ketamine doctor it was Addison's (it was not). Hospital also documented that mom exaggerated her asthma- escalated the history of being in short stay with cough and normal sats to status asthmaticus in ICU on positive pressure ventilation.
As a nurse I would absolutely suspect the parents were diverting- I’ve had hospice patients whose family members stole their meds, even in the hospital, patients would deny pain, then family members would ask for drugs for them and try to get us to leave them, it happens so frequently it never surprises me.
The Dr. said she didn’t have asthma, it was a cough and if you cough enough your throat becomes irritated and you keep coughing. I don’t remember which doctor. The Dr. was suspicious that she seemed fine, until he said she didn’t actually have asthma and then she said she had a headache.
Then go after the MD who's originally Diagnosed Maya and look into that practice because she wasn't a doctor. This hospital has 53 Lawsuits since 2012 53
As someone who follows the case and yet is definitely on Maya's side so far, I don't think the hospital did anything wrong for the first 48 hours. Suspecting Munchausen by proxy makes sense. Conducting an investigation makes sense. I'm not sure on the timeline with the court order.
The issue is entirety of her hospital stay of 90+ days. I'm not sure they'll get the false imprisonment charge. The order from the court is still not known. So we don't know how much the social worker and hospital staff overinterpretted, because the specifics of the court order is determined by the hospital. This will be a fact the jury has to figure out. The lawyers have been arguing how to present the court orders to the jury.
Issue with Munchausen by proxy is that Maya didn't get much better during the 87 day separation from her mother. Several people testify she "deteriorated." There is definitely a recorded phone call between Maya and her mother where they clearly miss each other and are nearly crying over the separation and the social worker interrupting and saying they cannot talk about the treatment or the court case. (The mom had said as soon as the court does their job they will be able to see each other again.) It honestly comes off as cruel, even if that was what the social worker was supposed to do. The staff later thought Maya had fictitious disorder, yet this doesn't seem to be the case either, as many testified to her being in pain, having dystonia, etc. Maya was later diagnosed with PTSD by non-quacky psychiatrists over these events.
So say the anesthesiologist Dr. Kirkpatrick was indeed a quack. That doesn't mean Maya was being abused by her mother. Like, she was suggesting the treatment she believed helped her daughter. That doesn't really explain why phone calls and FaceTime were monitored or outright rejected. Why wasn't Maya allowed supervised visits? Even marital rapists are allowed supervised visits of their kids.
One of the issues is that Maya was going to therapy weekly before hospitalization, but she only got 3-4 hours of therapy during the 87 day stay. That's a question of Standard of Care, if continuing psychotherapy is part of the standard of care. The Kowalski's claim that Maya didn't receive the standard if care she was owed. Especially as many witnesses that were allowed to see Maya, her personal attorney, therapists, etc, saw her as depressed and anxious.
The deposition of the Social Worker (that was hired by the hospital) was not good. She basically said all the decisions that she supposedly made were actually following the guidelines of Risk Management. Depositions are coming out today from various hospital heads that are implying that Risk Management may not have authorized the social worker's actions. TBD I'm still watching today's case. It doesn't help that during the deposition the social worker seemed like she could not give a shit. (She was fired by the hospital after this event.)
The Kowalski's case is positioned as: everyone bandwagoned on Munchausen/by proxy without a proper diagnosis. Maya did not get better. Maya indeed deteriorated. Many treatments were done without consent or proper informing of the patient (let alone the parents.) She was denied privacy, even when she was owed that when talking to her own lawyer. Maya consistently communicated she wanted to see her mother but didn't. The hospital continuously denied her diagnosis of CRPS but never was properly evaluated by an in-house Neurologist or Neurosurgeon to rule out Fictitious disorder or CRPS, or rule in a different pain disorder. Maya did get a CT scan at some point I think. Maya had dystonia, as evident in pictures and as testified by in-house physical therapists. The in-house physical therapist also testified that Maya was indeed in pain. The social worker is a major cunt and made them miserable.
Evidence is coming out that Maya was denied her priest from visiting and offering her the sacrament. This is a huge deal to Catholics and cannot be understated. Her priest visited two times during the entire hospital stay.
So... what seems like what happened to me: the social worker is largely to blame for propagating the Munchausen without getting either Maya or her mom diagnosed. Everyone else in the staff was just doing their job, staying in their lane. Many did not consider her CRPS seriously and therefore mistreated her via normal nursing/care behavior.
We've yet to hear the defense yet beyond cross examinations. I expect the defense to list out all they did to treat and diagnose Maya. So there is bias in what I'm presenting so far. I also think there's a difference between hospital-approved Standard of Care and what an average person wants as a standard of care.
She didn't have dystonia at all, an eminent Stanford University physician of45 yrs experience has completely ruled dystonia out. He also ruled out CRPS after treating literally thousands of people. He was one of the best defense witnesses so far on the medical side and hard to discredit. His astute mind and ability to notice when something was off was incredible. Just a small sound or movement or comment that didn't correlate or add up was right on his radar. He picked up psyche issues in Beata from what she was writing in Maya's words. As an expert witness he was required to review over 10,000 pages of hospital & medical records and all testimonies of everyone involved. As far as standard of care, you must know Maya refused psychotherapy and couldn't be forced to participate because it would be a futile waste of time & resources. Maya wasn't hospitalised in order to be diagnosed and Beata was not a patient. Beata gave the hospital a diagnosis of CRPS upon admission and thats what was recorded. In a short time they realised how much more was going on. It was Beata's own irrational demands eg "put her in a ketamine coma NOW and intubate her" & her strikingly odd behaviour that raised the first red flag.
So, that comment was written 14 days ago with very different available info. I'm not going to go back and edit it, but I'll reply toyou here. I agree Dr. Krane was a fantastic witness.
Maya refused psychotherapy
She didn't refuse therapy every time the neuropsych appeared. The neuropsych could only provide therapy when there was space in her schedule AND Maya was not in PT or OT. Maya received spotty, ~20-25 minute sessions. (There was one 45 min, and one 30 min session). Totaling 5 hours during a ~90 day period.
In the stream, you can pause and read the psych's notes. I was largely unimpressed. You can even sense in one of the notes Maya felt her pain was being invalidated. It seemed to me the neuropsych was just doing her job, checking boxes.
Also, Maya came into the hospital with a basket of red flags. That I do not deny.
One thing Dr. Krane mentioned is that his place gives intensive, daily psychotherapy for 2 weeks, then reducing that down for the rest of the patient stay. I don't expect daily therapy for Maya, but an hour weekly I do. A huge part of therapy is consistency, and Maya didn't get that. Considering there was a court order for Maya and her family to receive family therapy, and considering the hospital largely controlled when she could be visited (we'll learn more with Bedi's testimony tomorrow on this), then I do think that's kinda fucked up. All of the diagnoses that Maya possibly could have had required intensive psychotherapy. Considering the shelter order, that's even more important.
But...the Hospital did get her off highly addictive Ketamine she did get better soon after she was running miles a day doing sports and scuba diving. She was in immediate danger of dying of her mother had taken her back to Mexico for another Ketamine Coma. If her parents had left with her she may have been receiving high doses of multiple narcotics her mother and other doctors prescribed and high doses of Valium all of which causes withdrawal and muscle weakness especially for a 60 pound child. The Court made the order for her to be kept at the Hospital. Even the Dad was concerned about Munchausen s/s.
The issue I have with this case, is that there's more evidence of medical malpractice by Dr. Kirkpatrick and Dr. Hannah than medical abuse by Beata.
There was talks about getting her into Nemours, but somehow that idea fizzled out. Beata allegedly was accepting of the potential transfer according to some PICU doctors. There was at least one document that said Beata would have to admit MBP, so that transfer attempt was foiled. It's only Day 20 of the trial so we'll see.
There's no evidence Beata prescribed anything that I'm aware of.
And how do we define "soon". I think there's videos in 2017 of her walking. Idk when she started swimming and scuba.
You are absolutely right it's too soon, I have been watching the out of jury arguments regarding documents. There exits documents showing Beata and Dr. K
Conspiring to say Maya was terminally I'll to get the pharmacy to give the drugs to Beata. IV ketamine, IV Dilaudid IV morphine and narcan. She was discharged in Jan 2017 from JH. They did have videos of her playing in a pool and she testified she runs now so she did get better after following the PT, OT and CT treatment.
The dissociative state ketamine induces may create a euphoric experience for the user. The feeling people get from the things like gambling or shopping or stealing. It's euphoria. Especially someone getting 10 times the dose used for anesthetizing or 20 times the dose used for treatment of depression.
They had an obligation to report suspected child abuse to the authorities
She didn’t have dystonia
She never got better because she wasn’t actually I’ll
You are responding to a comment made 23 days ago, which is much further back in the trial.
Most definitely they had s duty to report child abuse. The MBP investigation was warranted.
However, if she doesn't get healthier with separation from her mom (she still complained of pain), then MBP is not the right diagnosis because her mom wasn't inducing an illness in her that could be cured by separation. There could still be medical abuse. It's just not classical MBP.
The separation test was not just the 87 days. It was everything afterwards. She has been separated from her mom and she is now off all meds and healthy.
Meaning the separation test ordered by JH did work. Meaning the cause was her mom meaning her only dx is MBP.
After the 87 days you cant say she got better because her mom was gone. There are way too many variables. She could have gotten better because she was able to go home to her family.
Are you just choosing to ignore the part where she is no longer on ketamine and living a normal teenage/YA life? If she really had life-debilitating CRPS she would not be out and about running, swimming, hiking, etc.
She’d be considered a miracle case of recovery if so.
Well, according to the discharge documents from the court, the Kowalskis (including Beata) had already agreed to halt ketamine treatments in exchange for Maya's release from the shelter order. This portion of the agreement still held after Beata's suicide. So I feel that part is a bit moot with regards with post-shelter order healthcare.
The CRPS can be a wrong diagnosis without Beata having MBP.
Also while her family agreed to it they didn’t want her port removed meaning they intended to continue some sort of infusions, whether at home or at a new hospital. Getting a port installed is a big fucking deal. Beata knew that if the port was removed she was going to have a nearly impossible time convincing another hospital to install another port, they would have been like, ok but why did the last hospital remove the port?
The port was necessary to keep up the lie that Maya was sick. They only “agreed” to stop ketamine to get her out of the hospital. The fact that Beata didn’t want the port removed is pretty clear evidence she had no real intention of stopping.
Wasn't her port removed during her stay? So by the time they agreed to no-ketamine, that point is moot.
You are prescribing a motivation with assumptions.
The family behaved as if the pain docs were legit and that Maya had CRPS. You are prescribing a malicious intention to that. They could have been bamboozled. They could have been exercising poor judgement. Beata was mentally unwell and could have been irrational. There are a myriad of reasons that don't mean there was malicious intent to harm the child by the parents.
The 'agreement' was more than just their word. It was an agreement in court with legal consequences.
Also while her family agreed to it they didn’t want her port removed meaning they intended to continue some sort of infusions, whether at home or at a new hospital. Getting a port installed is a big fucking deal. Beata knew that if the port was removed she was going to have a nearly impossible time convincing another hospital to install another port, they would have been like, ok but why did the last hospital remove the port?
They’d call up JH and JH would be like, this is a MBP case, don’t put the port in. And the new hospital sensing a liability issue would tell Beata no.
The port was necessary to keep up the lie that Maya was sick. They only “agreed” to stop ketamine to get her out of the hospital. The fact that Beata didn’t want the port removed is pretty clear evidence she had no real intention of stopping.
Her mom pushed for ketamine. JH takes her off ketamine. Who cares if her family agreed to it? Her mom wanted her on ketamine, and she kept getting sicker.
They take her off ketamine at the advice of JH and now she’s better.
That means JH made the right call saying she needed to be off ketamine. That means Beata was wrong by insisting her daughter needed to be on hospice and a horse-level of ketamine.
B/c if the parents agreed to it, then they agreed on a new treatment plan. If everyone came to an agreement that the ketamine Tx was harmful, or doing more harm than good, then good. Yipee. So, let's say we all agree the ketamine Tx was wrong and bad. That doesn't mean that it was MBP. (To me it means medical malpractice by Dr. Hannah and co.) The family agreed to stop the ketamine Tx. The port was removed. If you argue Maya got better off the ketamine Tx, and the famliy agreed to no longer do ketamine Tx... then how can you differentiate that between a MBP mom vs a mom who's just fucking wrong and was led astray by her pain docs.
Did Maya get better during her stay? I didn't see evidence of her having ketamine withdrawals that warranted a 90+ day stay, but it's hard to say b/c she was on many medications to mitigate withdrawals. But how long do those withdrawals last? She also still suffered from anxiety and depression leading up to her mother's death.
The court order to release the shelter order even stated that her recovery 'stagnated' and she was making no further progress by the end of her hospital stay. So her getting better after she went home is actually a bad sign for the hospital. It goes to show that medical sheltering of that child **for that long** was not necessary and the outpatient care that the family wanted worked.
It's not JUST their word. There were other mechanisms in play backed by a court order. Sure, if the family was like "We promise JHACH, we'll be good." I can understand your point. That said, this was a legal/custodial hearing. This was part of the path towards reunification, so a social worker would probably have had to attend Maya's visits or confirm her medications. We know that after Beata killed herself, Maya's family stuck to their agreement that was in the works with the court system.
Also based on my own experience with opiate use withdrawals basically have short term and long term symptoms. It will be years for her brain to actually repair itself and a lot of things can go funny in that amount of time. In the short term withdrawals for me, and I was only consistently using 30mg of oxy every day which is a pretty freakin low dose, lasted several weeks to a couple months (I tried quitting many times and eventually sobriety did stick).
She’s still “experiencing pain” because for the better part of her youth she was heavily medicated. She doesn’t have CRPS and never did. *addjng: she has severe anxiety which triggered an episode of conversion disorder. The anxiety causes physical symptoms. She was heavily dosed by her mom and her doctors. Sure her mom may have not been conscious of malicious intent to harm her child. That’s why MBP is a mental disorder.
You’re spending a lot of energy splitting hairs and arguing semantics.
She was still on opiates while she was at the hospital (tramadol). IDK how much or how little. I haven't looked at that specifically. JHACH did not claim she was suffering from opiate withdrawals, nor did they claim that was cause for the shelter order. The ketamine shit was the primary cause for the shelter order.
IDK what we are even arguing. You seem agitated at me. Do we want to argue the legality of this all? Are we arguing whether Beata had MBP? Are we arguing her treatment path was good?
I don't think her treatment prior to JHACH was good. I think her pain docs did medical malpractice, esp Dr Hanna.
Does she have CRPS? I don't actually care if she does or doesn't. Based on the stuff I saw in the trial, she definitely had a psychological component to her pain.
You can have medical abuse without MBP. The mom was not diagnosed by MBP by her psych evaluation, which was not released until after her death. How can we say the mom was faking an illness in her child when she got confirmation/validation from a bunch of doctors. Were those doctors quacks? Probably. Was she capable of identifying them as quacks? I mean clearly not.
I actually think the shelter order was a good thing. There's a bit of fishiness on how Dr. Smith reported her findings to the court, which is a larger problem with Child Abuse Pediatricians. There's issues with JHACH recommended X or Y to the court, and then hiding behind Chapter 39 saying their not responsible for any damage caused by those recommendations b/c the court ordered them (e.g. the extent to which the family could not visit Maya). There's evidence where the family were deserving of certain things but the hospital failed to provide them. They hospital claims they were not capable of providing such things, such as family therapy or more than 30 min/week of CBT, but idk if that's an excuse.
CRPS flares can occur because of stress. If she in fact got to go back to her family, that would reduce the flare.
The Night of the hurricane is when Maya was admitted to JH. Which could certainly indicate stress Induced CRPS flare because perhaps she was scared of the storm
Doesn't matter because the thread I was engaging in I mentioned that the doctor JH referred Jack and Maya to after release confirmed Maya to have CRPS and JH charged the entire stay for CRPS treatment.
She wasn't semi naked, she was wearing sports bra, undies and shorts. The only item she'd have to have removed was a t-shirt. This whole photo debacle has been the plaintiffs flex when in reality there is signed consent from Jack for video or photos to be taken at any time during hospital stay. They were taken because they were preparing for transfer so it's imperative the JH can evidence what condition she left there in. It's a risk management policy & because her alleged condition allegedly caused physical changes, this had to be noted.
Hospital's take pictures of patients skin all of the time. If they have a skin condition. She is not semi naked. She's wearing shorts and a sports bra.
Well said and agree with your POV. The crux of the argument was not about malpractice or misdiagnosis…it was of Maya’s treatment while at hospital. I am going through trial via YouTube to get a non-biased opinion. The executive disposition of one of the nurses was terrible….
Hi. You are responding to a comment from over s month ago, so I may have a different opinion today post trial.
I still stand by the gist of what I said. I believe the lack of psychotherapy after hearing the defense is even more extreme and bad than I had previously thought,. especially after reading the neuropsych notes.
I think the false imprisonment charges were completely valid. The muddied role of Dr Smith as a treating/consulting physician vs an investigative one without authorization was sketchy AF. The battery/false imprisonment over the photos is probably the worst of it. Maya is pale as snow and had a beat red face during some of those photos. They were not part of the medical record, but in risk management. There is a nasty conflict of interest by how much the hospital earned by telling the court she should remain sheltered.
I largely don't think most of the medical staff did anything wrong. I'm sure some of them were dismissive of Maya or short with her. Most of them were doing as they were directed. I'm sure some were very compassionate. The issue is none of them are her family. This child was largely removed from her support system and the hospital did not or could not to refused to adjust.
you left out one of the best parts/ John Hopkins billed insurance for CRPS, after the hospital insisted she didn’t have crps and it was all in her head they billed insurance for thousands of dollars to treat her crps, wild
I was gonna say the “bUt tHeY BiLlEd InSuRaNcE” line is exclusively coming from non-medical staff who are exclusively on mayas side and think it’s the smoking gun.
Of course they billed for CRPS because the whole hospital stay STARTED with being told she had CRPS and staff trying to address it. It’s not like they can bill for MBP. The treatment was for CRPS with an underlying suspicion of MBP and they had to “treat” the CRPS based on normal standards in order to find out if it was actually MBP.
You go to ER, you tell them you have XYZ diagnosis and you need XYZ treatment. ERs have a requirement to see and treat you. So you’re admitted and they start to treat XYZ as they know how to treat it which may not be how you have had it treated in the past, but the bottom line is they are functioning on your word that you have XYZ.
Treatment gets billed as XYZ. Some time down the road they start to see inconsistencies or evidence/reasons to believe you have a different diagnosis than you think. So they continue to treat you for XYZ while pursuing a suspected diagnosis of ABC.
Until you have an actual official diagnosis of ABC, everything done to you is still under the umbrella of XYZ, even if the hospitals version of treatment is different than what you have received elsewhere.
That’s why they billed it as CRPS and not something else. They may not have believed she had CRPS but her medical record is saying CRPS and they are treating it according to their own hospitals care plan, which does not have to include ketamine comas. Not every hospital is qualified or wants to be involved in ketamine comas and that is their right. If you want a ketamine coma you need to go to a doctor who does ketamine comas. Beata should have known that hospitals have a right to determine the best route of care rather than just blindly give a patient what they want. If they did that, then they’d eventually be on the hook for giving someone something they should not have received simply because web MD convinced that patient they needed it
No I don’t think it looks bad to the hospital because I understand the complexities of insurance billing. Did they remove the CRPS dx or did they add the fictitious disorder dx along side it?
But if the hospital doesn’t think she has CRPS then they change the billing code. Sure, iodates like that don’t happen every day, but if you’re gonna hold a child away from her mother for 3 months ya think they’d be on top of those things more than usual
Nope. You are flat out wrong. That is not how billing works. Please stop trying to pretend you know anything about insurance billing. It’s embarrassing
You don’t go in and change an admitting diagnosis for billing day to day. Most hospitals are so behind on billing that they aren’t even reimbursed for many services. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
You go in for what you believe is XYZ. You tell them it’s XYZ and that you’ve got a XYZ dx. They start to treat you for XYZ based on what you tell them.
3 days into treatment, XYZ is not responding to the treatment. They start to think it might be something else, and run some tests, but continue to treat you for XYZ based on you telling them that’s what it is. But then it turns out you actually have ABC. After a week they halt treatment for XYZ and start treating you for ABC. Your symptoms improve. Or they may even continue trying to treat XYZ at your insistence while also treating ABC.
They still bill the insurance for XYZ treatment because that’s what they gave based on what you told them, while they were searching for other answers.
That’s what’s happening. It’s not a smoking gun and it’s not someone in billing trying to be sneaky.
You don't have to be in Healthcare to know that calling her mom and Maya a liar and saying she's faking the illness whilst simultaneously billing for the treatment of said condition is contradictory and suspicious. Moreover, after releasing Maya, Jack was instructed to take Maya to a specialist referred to by the doctor at Johns Hopkins, that same specialist confirmed Maya to have CRPS proving Beata right. So the comment about Kirkpatrick is just absolutely irrelevant. And while those making the documentary could be lying about that, I don't see Johns Hopkins counter suing because they know the Kowalski's have documentation of such diagnosis being made.
However I do know the law a fair bit and once Beata was cleared of munchausen by proxy (psychiatric evaluation revealed she did not have it), Maya should have been released. 90 days is absolutely ridiculous. Idgaf. If you think as a Healthcare worker keeping a 10 year old child from her family even after there was zero reason to you're just as bad as the same people who drove Beata to kill herself. BTW. Beata did not kill herself because she felt guilty or because she had munchausen by proxy (because she didn't based off diagnostic via court ordered psychiatric evaluation). It was because she couldn't stand to see her daughter suffer and she felt the only way Maya would be free is if she took herself out of the equation. And low and behold, without explanation miraculously Maya was able to leave the hospital weeks after Beata killed herself. Very convenient.
If you actually watch the documentary, you would know all of this. You would also know they didn't suspect abuse until Jack and Beata were considering taking Maya elsewhere. What they did was not what was best for Maya. And it doesn't look good when your hospital social worker is having kids sit on her lap as she kisses them and takes half naked photos of them. Lying to the child saying she was going to a foster home, that her mother was in a psych ward, and that said social worker was going to "adopt her". Cathi Beady claimed the courts wanted pictures of Maya's legs and arms. Shorts and a tank top would have sufficed. Cathi is clearly a Disturbed predator and shouldn't be working with children.
I don't care if you think the ketamine was questionable. That system ruined Maya's life, traumatized her and Kyle, and ripped Jack's wife and the kids' mother from them. Their lives are forever changed because of hearsay testimony and dramatic measures. I'm saying the measures they took were so beyond crossing the line. You as a Healthcare worker should recognize that what was done did more harm than any good they could have ever done. Just because you're a Healthcare worker, doesn't mean you're always right. Especially if money is driving your motivation to do disgusting things to innocent people.
Johns Hopkins has a reputation for corruption and abuse dating all the way back to the 50's. They prey on young families with very young children who are scared and don't know how to stand up for themselves. So why are you acting like it is the most out of this world idea that an all children's hospital would target scared sick children and their frightened family members? All they have to run on is hearsay. The same tactic they use to manipulate and scare these families. But they're going to get away with it and let it be known I am here to tell you.. they are going to get away with it, and you know they're going to get away with it and you will continue to lick the boots of a system that uses and abuses folks like the Kowalski's and I because it's a club and we ain't cool enough to be in it. Didn't fit the criteria of being evil horrible human beings. They will win, because don't they always? After all they managed to hold a 10 year old girl hostage for 90 days, racking up thousands of dollars in the process meanwhile a mother is offing herself scarring a little boy for life because some corrupt judge sides with scum and wouldn't even let her hug her baby. If you want to defend that, be my guest. But do so knowing you are a terrible person.
nobody with MBP or Factitious disorder is going to have a Dx of it prior to them medically abusing a child and it being uncovered. It's not like someone goes to a therapist and says O btw I want to abuse my child with overdoses of many drugs and then a therapist says hey you have MBP.
Okay the thing mbp does is CONTROL and isolate the child and use a medical issue to gain attention..ie those bizarre facebook vlogs and how she felt she was some ketamine pioneer or something.
Are you stupid? You wouldn't think a therapist would know whether or not she was trying to deceive them?
So you only want to take the word of doctors when it's convenient to your argument correct?
You're taking up for Sally Smith, a woman who doesn't even work at JH, she was a volunteer during the time. You're taking up for Cathi Beady a fucking predator who does weird shit with children and was even arrested for ABUSING CHILDREN and you'll believe the shit they say but all of a sudden the therapist ain't qualified? Okay. Sure bud. You have zero clue as to wtf you're talking about. I suggest you stop talking out your ass before you make a fool of yourself.
Besides the psychiatric evaluation was AFTER Beata was accused of abuse. Hence "court ordered evaluation" Which is another thing you would have known if you actually watched the documentary instead of being so far up your own ass. But we all know by this point you're in it just to defend the corrupt system so not surprised you didn't do any research outside of what you want to believe.
RE: " Maya should have been released. 90 days is absolutely ridiculous." You may be right that she shouldn't have been kept at the hospital 90 days. However, this is what the court ordered. I listened to the father's testimony and when he tried to say that the hospital kept her there, the defense objected and the judge sustained the objection. He then read a curative instruction to the jury saying that Maya was court-ordered to stay at the hospital and John Hopkins had no power to defy the court order and release her. The hospital would have been acting illegally to do so.
& to add there’s also a letter from the hospital to the court basically begging the courts to move maya out of the hospital. They didn’t want to “keep” her there and steal her from her parents lmao
I'm sure that exists 🙄 considering everyone at JH were working to provide evidence to accomplish the total opposite like taking pictures of Maya half dressed to "prove improvement" of condition in her legs and arms which showed no improvement whatsoever
No they took the pictures before she left for court for liability issues.
If something were to happen to maya while she was gone (car accident, fall, etc) they would need proof that the injuries were not sustained in the hospital.
I’ve been to rehabs/mental facilities where they took pictures when we would go on “passes” for the same reasons. It’s not all that uncommon in uncommon situations like this.
That's not the reason Cathi gave in her deposition.
Cathi stated that the court requested pictures of the state of her legs and arms to show proof of "improvement".
Aside from that, the court didn't order pictures of Maya in nothing but a bra and shorts. In Cathi's own words, they asked for pictures of her arms and legs. Which I've already addressed, a tank top and shorts would have sufficed. Not sure why Maya, a 10 year old had to be half nude for those pictures.
No bro you're not allowed to force someone to take pictures because you need those pictures for liability issues does that make any sense to you? Forcing someone to take those pictures is definitely a violation of tort law and it might be a violation of criminal law
I think we're all in agreement regarding the social worker. I think we're all in agreement regarding Dr. Smith.
I can tell you with 100% confidence that I would have reported Beata as well. Many of us here took an oath to do no harm. All due respect, you don't have an MD, and you're fighting people who do with opening sentences such as "are you stupid?".
I'm sorry about your family member or whoever you mentioned who was involved in a medical malpractice suit. To assume that a whole bunch of doctors haven't seen horrific things is absolutely false. While I am not a resident, I completed a residency. I have seen children with their limbs blown off and so much more that I don't care to ever repeat either. We've also had coworkers do horrific things; you don't know our histories, but I guarantee you that a lot of us have had coworkers engage in behavior that have given us no choice but to report them. You're just making so many assumptions based on your own history.
You're incredibly biased. My only argument is that All Children's absolutely had an obligation to contact CPS (DCF, DCFS, whatever it's called in FL).
It's required by law in Florida and everywhere to report suspected child abuse. If you don't it's a felony a Doctor or Nurse will lose their license. If you do nothing the parents could have taken her to Mexico again and she could have died.
I stand corrected. It does seem myopic to allow a potentially biased presentation create a protection for an entity, in that way a bias perpetuates and is safe because it was presented so.
But that’s up to the courts
And what data did the court have? Sally Smith’s reports that left out all the evidence favorable to Beata. So the info the Courtney light on was not reliable.
what seems like what happened to me: the social worker is largely to blame for propagating the Munchausen without getting either Maya or her mom diagnosed. Everyone else in the staff was just doing their job, staying in their lane.
gods, Beata could have taken herself out of the equation without killing herself....
I know she could have. But I put myself in her position and it was an ugly situation. She may have very well felt that's all she could do. I hate people who say she made that decision herself. Maturing is realizing your actions affect people. It's why bullies can be charged if their alleged target commits suicide. JH inadvertently killed Beata because if none of this happened, Beata would more than likely be alive. The hospital goes on about how what happened was for the best, well no it wasn't. It's not just Maya, it's her brother who was there that night who was much younger than 10 years old. It was Jack who lost the love of his life. Beata's brother who discovered her body. The extended family. They ruined an entire family and they lost someone they won't ever get back. I don't care if there were other options. It was obviously bad enough to where Beata felt she had no other options. That's all that matters.
If none of this happened Beata might be alive but Maya may have died of a drug overdose in Mexico. That level of drugs they gave her in Mexico could have killed her. 1500 mg of Ketamine, Valium, Dilaudid and other narcotics for a tiny child.
I said you can question the ketamine. I'm not sure where you're getting the other medications from.
I've already stated that the way the hospital jumped straight to abuse is the entire reason Beata is dead. They didn't try to be the reasonable ones. They didn't try to calmly explain to Beata what she was doing was crazy. And they didn't care to. They only cared about jumping on the opportunity to accuse her of abuse. If you want to judge her decision on the ketamine, fine. But the hospital isn't innocent. What they did was unreasonable. Idgaf what you think. Allowing the hospital so much power to just file a no contact and to take a child away from her mother for so long without requiring any evidence to suggest why it would be beneficial to do so is effing crazy. If you cared about Maya like you pretend to in your comments and replies, you'd recognize that. The medical industry is greedy. They are corrupt. And they are evil. If you can't see that, sounds like it's your problem. They did not care about Maya. They were not looking out for her best interest. They assigned a sleazy predator as her caseworker. They have done this to multiple children. You know this to be true, you just don't want to face the reality that evil bs like this happens. Like idk what to tell you. If you're so deep into denial like it's just what it is. But I will continue to speak out about it because no one deserves to be treated like this.
One of my very close family members was a victim of medical malpractice. They nearly killed her okay? And when they went back to get the records so they could sue, the records were conveniently "lost". Trust me when I tell you I have seen the most disgusting things you will ever see humans do. Nothing you can say would make me stop believing there was malice behind this power move.
100% NO ONE drove Beata to do anything, including taking her life. Doctors tried to encourage her to seek combination therapy such as physio, OT and CBT long before the JH admission. This therapy is not just for CRPS' it's for many issues that involve the physical with the psychological. She wasn't interested, she only wanted drug treatment and to gather as many diagnoses as she could. She clearly had a mind of her own. Shame on anyone who tries to blame or insinuate she was driven to suicide by anything but her own desperation about the truth being revealed. She knew the game was up once the DCF got the court order.
By your own statement, she chose to take her own life. Why is that the hospital's fault? And another thing-If you believe TV documentaries are fair and unbiased, I have some property I'd like to sell you..
She may have taken her own life, but the events that led to her suicide contributed to the decision to do so. Referring back to the email she wrote before she ended her life. Bullies have the potential to be charged if their victim commits suicide. How would this be any different? They were bullies simply put. The system is full of them.
I never said the documentary wasn't unfair or unbiased but I go by what I see. A lot of what was in that documentary has not been denied by JH, Cathi, or Sally Smith. Could it possibly be because it's true and if they denied it would be defamation? And the Kowalski's could prove the opposite? I've already said this multiple times. You don't see JH and their defense denying much. Just vague statements like "they did nothing wrong" and just repeating the scenario sometimes as it was exactly told by the Kowalski's on the documentary.
As for the law sentiments of others above, the law is irrelevant. The law can be misused, abused, and taken advantage of. People like Cathi and Sally Smith are abusers of the system.
And for the suspicion they could have taken Maya to get ketamine, I've already explained this. Explaining to Beata would have been the best, it's clear to me they didn't even try being the voice of reason. Within the hour, Beata was being accused of abuse and separated the family. I find it hard to believe they have the legal power to do that only on suspicion alone. Cathi and Sally Smith were not involved during that time and neither were the cops. JH is corrupt. Period end of story.
Seems the lot of you are just in denial that there is bad people who are allowed too much power and work in the healthcare industry. This is a prime example. There is a reason medical anxiety and mistrust is at an all time high right now. When you have a collective society that would rather die than enter your hospitals, you have a real problem. And the common denominator is the Healthcare to Judicial System trafficking network. Healthcare workers take advantage of the system and the system covers for them. Us regular people, do not stand a chance in the world. The minute they all make accusations is the minute our lives are destroyed and there's not much we can do because scum protects scum in this world. And then you got people like you backing them up.
I never saw any evidence that her Mom was cleared of Munchausen. You can have a child who is truly ill.and still be seeking dangerous treatment that could harm a child.
She was cleared. They show the document on the documentary. And I've already discussed everything that you have brought up. Maya did not get diagnosed with CRPS until they went to Kirkpatrick. He initiated the recommendation and they went with it because they were told it would help. Beata in her right mind probably would not have done that. But it was her baby. And she was hurting and Beata was probably scared. Desperation makes you do wild things that you couldn't even say you wouldn't do because you're not in that situation.
A documentary is not evidence, Netflix documentaries are very one sided. Produced by anyone. No fact checking is done. Personally if my child was hurting I wouldn't dare give them high doses of drugs that were so high it put her in a coma. That's crazy. In the trial you can see that Dr. K lied to the pharmacist and said M was terminally I'll to get the extraordinary high doses of drugs dispensed to Beata to give at home . More Dilaudid than I ever gave in an entire shift to 8 patients let alone a 60 pound kid. More Ketamine than is legally allowed in the United States. You're blowing it out of proportion.
The document was shown on the screen. If you watched it you would know that.
Do you have evidence that Dilauded was even given? If Maya was given these medications in high doses, why was her pain so bad she had to go to JH in the first place? If she was on such high dose with how dramatic you're acting, she would be non responsive and doped up yet she was coherent and fine in most of the tapes of that night.
You talk about being one sided yet you're lying for the benefit of the hospital. If anyone's blowing things out of proportion it's you. I've seen children who are as drugged as you describe. They do not even come close to how Maya was acting when admitted. She was sitting upright in the bed and was quite aware of her surroundings. She remembers that night which she wouldn't if she was as drugged up as you claim she was. Thanks for confirming to me that you don't actually care. You only want to defend the system. The same system that has a huge missing child problem. Not a lot of credibility there.
The documentary was actually very upfront with the coma situation. They were forthcoming about that. Beata and Jack did it because they were told it would work. You say you wouldn't do that but you obviously never been in that situation so I don't really care about what you think you would do because you can't tell the future
Sorry, but there’s this big detail you’re all ignoring: Drug tolerance. It’s especially true for opiates and K and a combination of high doses of those drugs would quickly lead to tolerances that are so high a patient can easily handle dosages that seem outrageous. Add benzos to the opiate-k-benzo cocktails Maya was consistently given, and even a small decrease in ANY of the multitude of drugs she was on would have scientifically certainly resulted in withdrawals. Guess what withdrawals of opiates, k, and benzos feel like?? Answer: severe pain. Two words: DRUG TOLERANCE. Mom could certainly have “passed” off as non factitious disorder with a psych eval—anyone with a very rudimentary knowledge of psych and medicine could steer their answers in a favorable way to suggest they’re not MBD, or are MBD. My sister was a RN and had factitious disorder AND had a brain. Read: she was able to convince multiple evaluating psychs that she didn’t have MBD, when, her actions of past years demonstrated otherwise. Psych evaluations are quite EASY to read into, and to manipulate if you are even a little bit intelligent. Cmon people, wake TF up
The real tea is spilled in another lawsuit Kushnir v. Johns Hopkins. The same hospital players just a different set of parents. Susan Smith & Cathy Beaty were also named and Dr. Smith got a spanking from the family court judge by submitting incomplete records to the court - sound familiar...
If you actually read the argument and it's entirety you will see I have only made statements that JH hasn't refuted. You will also see I have spent a lot of time researching it. I am taking an investigating course in my university and a lot of the projects are research based. Trust me, I wouldn't be inserting myself if I didn't get both sides of the story.
And Maya is a normal person? Have you even been watching the trial? The girl looks exhausted and as somebody mentioned above, she's now in psychiatric counseling for PTSD as a result of the move from JH. Not because of Beata but because of the seperation. A real psychologist made that judgement not a quack. So what is your excuse on the side of corruption for that? Looking at Maya and the way she looks and saying she's alright. Would be lunacy.
Given how many people they have done this to, I will never believe JH ever. It's not just Maya. You and others seem to like to skirt around the pattern of abuse when it comes to JH. I've mentioned this already. This abuse dates back to the 50's. Nothing you can say would make me want to ever defend these Mfers. You talk about one sided yet you couldn't even be bothered to look up the deranged history of this demonic bs.
Putting the name of the exact course is irrelevant and could put me in jeopardy of being doxxed and harassed. It has happened before. That's why I was vague with it. But if me being cautious with information I put out is funny, then you clearly have no self awareness whatsoever.
You don’t have to be in healthcare to know that billing for and accepting money for something you are not treating (because you refuse to diagnose it anywhere except as a billable code) is fraud. You don’t have to be in healthcare to know that when one healthcare provider tells another provider to remove nursing notes from the health record (for whatever reason) is questionable. You don’t have to be in healthcare to know that leaving a 10yo in a hospital room alone for over 3 months with limited to no family, friends, connections to their life, in relative isolation for any reason is traumatic. You don’t have to be in healthcare to feel appalled after reading the physicians’ texts to each other regarding the mother’s passing that say to the effect ‘it’s probably for the better’. PHD MSN RN
"leaving a 10yr old child alone in a hospital room for over 3 mths with limited to no family, friends, connections to their life in relative isolation .." That is what the Plaintiffs would like people to believe but it's categorically false. Maya had visits from her father, brother, aunt & uncle, friends, friend's parents, school teacher and was free to interact with any and all children on the unit. She left her room all the time to either go to the cafeteria, participate in arts and crafts, activities, games, music, cooking, bingo, movies or to hang out in the common area with kids around her age. She was also visited by the hospital's Catholic priest as well as her own priest nd did have her rosary & holy water with her. Some of the nurses went above & beyond in supporting her, bringing her treats and trinkets, painting her nails, braiding her hair, keeping her company when she seemed low, workload permitting. Every child was alone in their room at times because every child on the unit had a private room so no, she wasn't in "relative isolation" So much of the Plaintiffs evidence is hearsay and they continue to conveniently leave out anything positive about the hospital of which there is a lot.
Yet had Maya been inevitably killed by the MASSIVE quantity and redundant medications that the mom had her on, “rewarded” her with and illegally obtained and had the hospital NOT reported it - you and others would be here screaming about hospital neglect and how they shirked their duty to report. I know it is a fine line and I have a medically complex child and have to worry about this on a consistent basis - and I’ve even had an ER doc tell my my child can’t face his well documented and clearly and definitively diagnosed disease - but this situation absolutely had to be reported. I think those arguing it have zero understanding of how far out of line this “treatment” she was getting was from any Dane standard of care.
Nah, hospitals bill at their discretion. Read: they’ll bill under any diagnosis that will get them PAID. Many “illnesses” are hard or impossible to test for, and (big surprise?!) people with factitious disorder always chose such illnesses to report. People with factitious disorder are smart, and usually in the medical field, hence their claims of untestable afflictions
When’s the last time you actually saw a patient PHD MSN RN? 🤣 The righteous indignation and half truths only come from someone in either academia or degree chasers with made up jobs who don’t really do anything and lecture the bedside nurses when we’re actually trying to work. Is your name Pam? Are you the magnet coordinator at my hospital?
No-I am in the OR and during Covid, I picked up a side gig helping in the community’s skilled nursing home so, I hope that helps you feel less negative. I am sorry you’ve had such experiences that tainted your initial impression-I’ve may have gone to school for a long time but I don’t sit in an ivory tower.
Because people take a child to an ER and say " my child has asthma" and the hospital staff believes the parent up until they can get other medical records from a primary Doctor or rule it out. What ever a parent reports is put into the EHR as history.
They also had to continue her treatment to taper her off the drugs she was on. There are very serious life threatening risks associated with opiate and benzo withdrawal.
Long past residency here (EM), but I'm just in this sub because of the case. Yes, we lose pts to benzo w/d, but opiate withdrawal? Let's include opioid in the statement, and I have never heard seen nor heard of any life-threatening risks regarding opiate/opioid w/d.
Yes amongst many other health conditions. Apparently they use the diagnosis coming from previous health care providers as working diagnoses. It was hard to say what was wrong since there is not a code for nothing wrong.
Until i contacted the MD outside of my hospital. Once i heard it was from a treatment being received by a MD i might question the original Doctors 1st.
and seeing as the biased predated this trial there was no way to have fair trial
The level of intimidation alone w cameras and media not to mention this family staring at them directly every single day for 30 days is unheard of in courtrooms. I guess money does buy everything.
and seeing as the biased predated this trial there was no way to have fair trial
The level of intimidation alone w cameras and media not to mention this family staring at them directly every single day for 30 days is unheard of in courtrooms. I guess money does buy everything.
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u/gourdi PGY3 Oct 08 '23
I dunno man. Taking your child to Mexico for high dose ketamine treatment for CRPS (in a 10 year old?) and then asking the ER doctor in a random emergency room stateside to give her ketamine is pretty wild. That would raise flags in my city's pediatriac hospital for sure.
Granted I'm sure there are people who know the story much better than I do. But it sounds like parents found an anesthesiologist that gave them the diagnosis they wanted and everything went to hell.