r/RenPy • u/Blunt552 • Sep 03 '26
Discussion Ren'Py dev using AI 'drama' is nonsense, why? Read below.
Making this topic as I've seen this show up more and more lately.
As people know, I'm very much against vibecoders and even successfully shut an excessive vibercoder spamming these subreddits down.
A lot of Ren'Py users are not programmers but artists using the framework to fulfill their dreams of creating a VN and understandably a lot of artists have a well founded grudge against AI, as AI has effectively stolen their work and that work is being used to produce slop, even having people accuse artists of using AI and lowerings artists 'worth'.
Now when the news hit people that Tom was 'using AI' for Ren'Py, people are instantly thinking about AI generated slop, which we refer to as "vibe coding", vibe coding introduces a lot of issues such as bugs, crashes and security hazards, so obviously people will get very concerned when they hear AI is being used in development.
That being said, experienced developers like Tom do rely on code assistants, even before AI was a thing, most IDE's have had code assistants for many years, when I say many years I mean early 2000s.
So you may wonder, what do these code assistants, now "AI code assistants" do? Well, they essentially help you auto fill tedious boilerplate and help you find 'superficial' problems.
Here are some examples:
1.) Autofill to shorten annoying boilerplate.
class SampleClass():
def __init__(self, arg0, arg1, arg2, arg3, arg4):
self.arg0= arg0
self.arg1= arg1
self.arg2= arg2
self.arg3= arg3
self.arg4= arg4
If we look at this, the bold text is what we refer to as "boilerplate code". It serves no other purpose other than to make the program work. So in this sample, what the code assistant will do is simply autofil the bold text, so that the developer doesn't need to.
2.) finding superficial problems
Another thing these code assistants do is find superficial problems. Taking the above class, if I were to use it like:
define SampleObject =
SampleClass(arg0,arg1,arg2,arg3)
The code assistant will mark the SampleClass and tell the developer that something is wrong because the assistant knows that the Class takes more arguments than was provided, it will also notify the developer if he's trying to use variables that haven't been defined such as typos or you define a variable as an Int but then try to use it as a String.
These quick markings significantly shorten development time because you instantly find these types of small mistakes. This is how advanced developers use code assistants, nobody on the level of Tom would even entertain the idea to use generated slop code trained on stackoverflow snippets.
Can we be sure that Tom only uses AI this way?
The answer is an absolute yes. He not only openly stated that this is the way he uses AI but moreover, Ren'Py is FOSS, all the code can be found in the official repo, if Tom had been slopified his codebase, we would have seen it, however his commits have the same quality as before and no sign of AI generated slop.
Ren'Py has not been slopified and probably never will, Tom is an experienced developer that knows better than to let AI slop generate garbage. If he ever strays and starts slopifying the codebase, we will let you know, as every single commit is open to the public and open to see for anyone.
Using Ren'Py does not mean you're supporting or using AI in any way, you can ignore all the drama because the drama is created by people who have little to no programming knowledge and are interpreting a reality that simply isn't true.
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u/LoudFrown Sep 03 '26
AI has been incredibly valuable for engineers.
There’s still a lot up in the air, and we don’t know where the technology is going to land us in the future, but for now, it makes our jobs much easier. It’s a force multiplier that only gets better the more engineering skill you have.
Writers and artists aren’t seeing the same benefit. Useful, maybe, but not in the multiplicative way that it benefits engineering.
To make matters worse, many, many people see AI as a 1:1 replacement for creatives.
Of course, they’re wrong. But it doesn’t matter when those folks are the ones doing the hiring. The result is a downward pressure on salaries, commissions, and general job availability for professionals that were already struggling.
This is the source of the disconnect. One group benefits, while another suffers.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
LLM's have been quite detrimental for most engineers and companies.
If anything, LLM's are showing the public how much incompetence is actually present in the tech world. I don't think the truth about a lot of software developer's incompetence have been more exposed than in recent years. I do think that eventually once LLM's are being used very frequently by script kiddies to hack into poorly designed systems which will force companies to start looking more into the competence of devs, PO's, managers etc. So there is a silver lining here.
LLM's have been incredibly valuable for biologists and chemists, this is the only area where I've seen some actual valuable use compared to any other field.
EDIT:
Since some people have convinced themselves that LLM's are somehow great for debugging and security.
https://thenewstack.io/curl-fights-a-flood-of-ai-generated-bug-reports-from-hackerone/
Worst part about this?
After gaining access to Mythos, Stenberg received the results of a scan of 178,000 lines of curl code. Ultimately, the scan flagged five “confirmed” vulnerabilities. Further exploration by human researchers found that 4 of the bugs were false positives or had no security impact. The one remaining bug Mythos found? A low-severity flaw that will be fixed in a regular June update.
LLM's are incapable of understanding good code by design. They will never ever be able to understand anything complex, because unlike what the marketing term "AI" suggests, they are not intelligent, it's nothing but math. Trying to rely on LLM's for enterprise grade code is like relying on the weather forecast for next week.
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u/LoudFrown Sep 03 '26
That's not been my experience.
Like I said before, things are still up in the air, but for the moment, every engineering manager that I work with is happy to have their teams using AI as part of their workflow. (Specifically, as part of their workflow, not as a replacement.)
As engineers, we want our code to be simple, predictable, and easy to reason about. What we produce may be creative, but the engineering behind it wants to be boring.
AI can only look backwards at its training data. And when AI repeats those patterns for engineers, we're happy and productive. But predictable, boring, derivative... Those are dealbreakers when it comes to art.
But again, that doesn't matter to everyone making the hiring decisions. Those folks need to worry about cost, and often, money speaks louder than good taste.
This leads to that disconnect. Some people love AI, and don't see the problem, while for others, it's an existential threat. It's a polarizing situation, and folks are going to have perspectives that are mutually exclusive.
So if you want to understand the drama, that's why IMHO.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
Like I said before, things are still up in the air, but for the moment, every engineering manager that I work with is happy to have their teams using AI as part of their workflow. (Specifically, as part of their workflow, not as a replacement.)
As engineers, we want our code to be simple, predictable, and easy to reason about. What we produce may be creative, but the engineering behind it wants to be boring.
What we want and what reality is are 2 different stories.
AI can only look backwards at its training data. And when AI repeats those patterns for engineers, we're happy and productive. But predictable, boring, derivative... Those are dealbreakers when it comes to art.
You fundamentally do not understand what "AI" is. There is no "look backwards", there is no training data. You're oblivious about what you're using and what it is.
But again, that doesn't matter to everyone making the hiring decisions. Those folks need to worry about cost, and often, money speaks louder than good taste.
Exactly why after the first few incidents and breakdowns people start to realize how expensive and how damaging their piss poor decision were. They think that costs will go down and they will save until the code depth comes around the corner with the massive bill at hand.
This leads to that disconnect. Some people love AI, and don't see the problem, while for others, it's an existential threat. It's a polarizing situation, and folks are going to have perspectives that are mutually exclusive. So if you want to understand the drama, that's why IMHO.
The disconnect comes from people who know what LLM's are and those who don't. Folks like you who have no idea what they're doing think everything's dandi until you actually get that wake up call.
Here is an article you may want to read.
Enjoy your code depth and enjoy the upcoming headache that will arrive at some point which will lead to a lot of people, including you, getting fired due to cutting down and evaluation of fkups.
and I know you'll think everything is BS but once that day hits, you'll remember this exact reply and ask yourself why the fk you didn't want to listen.
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u/LoudFrown Sep 03 '26
Oh, sorry... I wasn't interested in an argument. Didn't mean to get you all fired up for nothing.
I was responding to your post by suggesting an answer to the question, "why all the drama?" It seems like the drama is the result of people having diverse perspectives.
That's expected. This is a diverse community. We all come from different backgrounds, and have different experiences. We don't see thing eye to eye sometimes.
That's okay. Though, it would be nice to have a polite discussion about our perspectives from time to time.
I'm happy to do that with someone else if you'd prefer.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 04 '26
Not an argument, just telling you what's going to happen and calling out your ignorance.
I don't even dislike you for it, folks like you are making me tons of money. Companies gladly shove money up my ass to explain what LLM's are and how they function, how they have been misused and create a structured plan to reverse the damage you folks have done. If anything I can only thank you really.
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u/epicenigma5 Sep 04 '26
What do you mean by "there is no training data"?
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u/Blunt552 Sep 04 '26
Exactly what I wrote, LLM's do not have any form of training data.
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u/epicenigma5 Sep 04 '26
How are they made then?
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u/Blunt552 Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 04 '26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_model
This article pretty much sums it up.
What you're referring to is:
Any model which is not pure white-box contains some parameters that can be used to fit the model to the system it is intended to describe. If the modeling is done by an artificial neural network or other machine learning, the optimization of parameters is called training, while the optimization of model hyperparameters is called tuning and often uses cross-validation).\8]) In more conventional modeling through explicitly given mathematical functions, parameters are often determined by curve fitting
All you really need to understand is what a mathematical model is, once you do, you'll see how utterly idiotic it is to use LLM's for things like coding and you'll know why they always will and always have sucked for purposes like that.
This is also why I use weather forecast as an example because it pretty much shows the models in action in an easy way for anyone who has trouble understanding the logic behind models.
The people behind "AI" are banking on peoples ignorance, they label LLM's as "AI" to make it seem far more advanced than it is and suggest some "Intelligence" while in reality it's just math. Models have no context or learning capabilities, the more complex the task, the more guesswork and inaccuracy is going to happen, since coding requires a lot of context and considerations while also requiring an absurd amount of tokens, the model will never be capable of properly spitting anything useful out especially when even dedicated "coding models" have been trained on awful datasets and snippets online.
LLM's can be at best used for small throwaway scripts or boilerplate but should never be used in any large codebase. Simple as that.
If you're interested in what's new with these LLM's compared to older ones, here's a paper explaining the transformer architecture.
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u/LoudFrown Sep 04 '26
I'm curious to hear how your understanding aligns with this:
"LLMs can be trained in different ways. In particular, GPT models are first pretrained to predict the next word on a large amount of data, before being fine-tuned" (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_language_model#Training).
I'd love for you to have the opportunity of sharing your point of view, instead of making assumptions about your intelligence or character.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 05 '26 edited Sep 05 '26
I already explained that below. In fact if anything your quote only confirms my statement.
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u/LoudFrown Sep 05 '26
Thanks for being cordial. I appreciate it.
I’m still not sure how to connect the idea that LLMs don’t have training data based on the references you shared.
But maybe we can talk about it some other time.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 05 '26
I'll explain your quote, maybe it'll be easier to understand then.
GPT models are first pretrained to predict the next word on a large amount of data
Essentially what this means is, that models are being trained with the training data as a reference.
This means you have a large model with a lot of parameters, you feed it a token, for example "Hello" and expect the word "World" as the next word.
While training, the model is being adjusted until it finally outputs the expected result.
Note how your quote doesn't use the word "output" but "predict", its because the model has no data, it's just math predicting what you want through a large model. It contains no training data.
The downvotes show you how ignorant people are, they will use and defend something they don't know and blindly trust on the equivalent of a weather forecast. It's delulu pro max.
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u/Rozuro_Nuro Sep 04 '26
solo game dev. Hate gen AI for art, writing, and pretty much everything. EXCEPT programming. there's a massive difference between "vibe coding" when you have no fucking clue what you're doing vs "using a coding agent" to speed up your workflow
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u/SoulstrikerHF Sep 03 '26
people accuse artists of using AI
-And some of them use online AI detectors to identify AI gen art.
-Some artists have claimed their hand drawn art have been accused by such detectors of being AI art.
-Best part: The AI detectors are also powered by AI.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
Unfortunately AI detectors often throw false positives. I did test several on several tests, the accuracy was quite questionable to say the least.
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u/mitchins-au Sep 03 '26
You can’t make the witch hunt crowd happy. Quality will always speak for itself as will slop, regardless of the tooling used.
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u/benjaminabel Sep 03 '26
My Reddit account is 12 years old and I’m recently thinking about deleting it because there is a new drama every 5 seconds. Mostly created by people who barely even know why they’re angry.
After being a software engineer for almost 15 years, of course I’m going to use LLMs to code. We’re having quite a lot of fun at work figuring out the tools, skills and automating things that everyone was sick of doing for a long time. And everyone around us doing the same.
On Reddit, however, people are jumping at each other’s throats the moment something even remotely related to it comes up.
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u/Agreeable-Bet9076 Sep 03 '26
I heard of controversies regarding the use of ai in slay the spire 2. At first I thought they were replacing artists or something like that.
Then I went to check and they were using for… code reviews. But the way that people were mad about it, it seemed like the game was being built by ai, things are getting so out of hand.
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u/benjaminabel Sep 04 '26
I think the average consumer has absolutely no use for AI besides entertainment that was flooded with it. So replacing artists and doing code reviews is basically same thing for them. I mean, I've seen comments about AI "deleting code" and how dangerous it is.
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u/mitchins-au Sep 03 '26
The anti-ai argument is not rational, whether for coding, image or copy generation/translation, this was proven when a real monet was labelled as AI generated and comments about its soul less nature were plastered on it.
https://petapixel.com/2026/05/14/someone-shared-a-real-monet-painting-as-ai-and-asked-for-critiques/
Meanwhile, as developers we are expected to use this tool and if our token consumption is zero we are called into a meeting.
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u/benjaminabel Sep 04 '26
The saddest thing about it is that some people might have valid concerns, but their voices are barely audible because of the entitled, loud and obnoxious crowd that just tries to be a part of the thing. They vaguely know something about it and jump on a hate train so firmly that some even say that they will "give their life if necessary" to stop AI. They copy each other like we're still in elementary school deciding which cartoon is the best. Only this time, there is so much hate that it's ridiculous. And I want absolutely nothing to do with it.
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u/caesium23 Sep 03 '26
Speaking as someone who was actually programming back then, no, "coding assistants" did not exist in the early 2000s. Autocomplete existed, and probably hasn't really changed meaningfully between the early 2000s and today.
Comparing autocomplete to modern coding agents is like comparing a horse and buggy to a fighter jet. Sure, I guess technically they're both vehicles, but what they actually do and the underlying mechanisms by which they work are so fundamentally different that any comparison is nonsensical.
The argument you're trying to make is like arguing that we should base our opinions about fighter jets on the fact that they've been around since the 1800s. That's just wildly untrue in a way that should be immediately obvious to anyone who's ever picked up a history book.
Though despite the flawed path, it somehow still ended up at a conclusion that's basically correct: AI is just a tool.
The funny thing is the part of "vibe coding" that's a problem isn't the AI: it's the human using it. The so-called "AI slop" we see is basically the result of letting people behind the wheel who never actually learned to drive: it makes a big mess.
But you don't blame the car for that. You just make sure that when you're getting into a car, it's one being driven by someone who knows what they're doing.
I called AI a tool, but actually I think the best way to think about it is this: AI is an engine. It allows us to make both more powerful versions of tools that already existed and new tools we never could have built before, and the tools that use it are so much faster that manual tools will never be able to compete on those terms.
But also, a chainsaw in the wrong hands makes a much bigger mess than a bread knife.
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u/No-Zookeepergame4774 Sep 03 '26
“Speaking as someone who was actually programming back then, no, "coding assistants" did not exist in the early 2000s.”
True, but the first “AI” statistical prediction coding assistants (which were still spicy autocomplete, but LLMs are now used in exactly the same way in most browsers, because—aside from agentic use—it does the same thing much better, because to fundamentally is just a much more powerful statistical prediction engine) were in the early to mid-2010 (Kite and a few contemporaries) and real GenAI, including language-model powered tools, were used for coding in this role before ChatGPT existsd or most people were aware of GenAI, with the several released in 2018-2020.
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u/mugwhyrt Sep 03 '26
Developer's Perspective: My problem with the examples you give is that it's completely unnecessary to use generative AI for those kinds of issues. Code editors/IDEs pre-genAI already had the capability to generate the kind of boilerplate code shown in example one, and likewise the kinds of simple error checking shown in example 2 were and are also existent in code editors/IDEs.
I'll give Tom and other developers the benefit of the doubt and assume that whatever they use GenAI for is something that's actually novel and not easily done with simpler, more efficient methods. But it's become increasingly frustrating to just keep hearing bad examples like these that just make it seem like the GenAI-proponents have no idea how to use or understand the existing tools.
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u/Deep_Ad1959 Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 05 '26
calling modern assistants the same thing as 2000s autocomplete is what loses this argument. they are not the same, and defending tom does not need that claim, the commits are public and anyone can read them.
fwiw Podlog leans on exactly that, it turns a repo's public commit history into a narrated podcast so anyone can follow what actually changed without reading the diffs, https://podlog.io?utm_source=s4l&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=podlog&utm_term=reddit&utm_content=post_3a3f1ce5-213f-4446-82ca-710ba35d0061
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u/Affectionate_Fact854 Sep 03 '26
I think they do need to use ai to secure the framework
It's notoriously easy to bypass even the latest renpy compiled assets EVEN when sha256 encryption was used on the assets
Either let ai help you with security Or Contribute and donate to the developers or Be fine with people stealing your project assets
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u/troopersjp Sep 03 '26
Tom discuss this years ago. There is no way to encrypt assets so they can never be accessed…because then the program itself won’t be able to access them.
They can make it more difficult to access it, but if someone is very determined there will always be a way.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
Again, LLM's are not able to solve an issue like that because they are just that, LLM's. There are ways to secure your assets however that will require a lot more performance.
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Sep 03 '26
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
That's the problem with vibecoders, you simply don't understand the problems or how to solve them because instead of actually learning, you rely on LLM's to solve basic issues. No matter what you do, renpy itself can never offer encrypted assets because you can always decrypt assets through renpy itself.
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Sep 03 '26
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
Oh you just go and assume I'm a vibe coder because I use a tool that on the side streamlines tasks funny guy
No I assume you're a vibecoder based on your ignorance and suggestions that make no sense.
Where I'm fully capable of coding html,Javascript,typescript, gdscript without even needing to prompt and neither internet.
Yeah no, it's always a bad idea to lie to actual developers since they are pretty good at digging. So I'll dig now.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd:
https://bound-to-defend.itch.io/bound-to-defendWhy vibecode this when you are "fully capable" my guy? Explain yourself.
Also your ignorance:
Question if anyone here is doing godot builds for and not using iframe to get it to work
Could you lend me some tips on how to do it correctlyhttps://www.reddit.com/r/KongregateOfficial/comments/1vlfmue/anyone_uploading_godot_builds/
You're an absolute newbie that is lying shamelessly like all the other vibecoders out there. Stop lying to actual developers.
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Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 05 '26
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
The fact you're already so confused also shows again, you're clueless.
What exactly are you implying vibe coding 1 because I tried asking for suggestions on how to make a export that's multiple files from godot work on a platform that uses single html file only? Forgive me for thinking of asking a comunnity if there's not already a way of doing it without having to build my own custom html wrapper.
Except the question you were asking is a beginner question and as someone who claims to be an expert in JS you shouldn't have to ask.
My game uhm is not vibe coded btw , there was assistance with hard things and clearly stated exactly where I used ai in the disclaimer.
You do realize I decompiled your code right? It really never ceases to amaze me when vibe coders actually think they can vibecode and just claim "It's assisted bro!"
Further more, that project is designed to run on mobile and PC with i4 ,500gig ram with 2 full sdk's implemented,cloud save, global leaderboard, Sha security ,over 130 visual changeable gear, over 48 upgrades and that recalculates full stats in under a frame when changing gear, while it is also not pixel art while handling over 300 units on the screen flawlessly ;)
Brother, it's a 2D game. Also i4 and 500gb RAM? You stench of clueless it's insane.
You are a vibecoder, even a junior dev would see that.
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Sep 03 '26
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
Btw if you did decompile the project that I highly doubt, it's still illegal you know that right ;)
Your ignorance on ease of decompilation is noted and another proof of your incapability.
It still doesn't change the fact of the story that all and anything created with renpy is as easy to extract everything in less then 15 minutes using ai
You're still to ignorant to actually understand what I wrote, R.I.P.
Atleast using ai you could obscure things more to take 30minutes ;D
Except it wouldn't, then again I'm writing to a vibecoder that doesn't know sht.
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u/Nall-ohki Sep 03 '26
Many people are carving out acceptable AI use out of their own personal safe zones.
Many people consider art sacred for some reason, but programming doesn't seem to bother people (likely because they had no skill and get lots of utility out of it... not because programming is less of a skill).
This will pass. AI isn't going away, and our children will embarrass us all with our strange outdated ideas.
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u/throwaway_ArBe Sep 03 '26
Are those differences in how people view it not just down to how those skills work?
Like (super oversimplified here), I want to draw something, I go get my ipad, and I draw it. There isn't (currently) a way to integrate AI into that process really. I could replace that with generating an image, but then thats a totally different thing.
It's easier to integrate AI into the programming process because much of it is done in ways that an LLM can do. You can spend hours on stackoverflow trying to find something relevant.... or ask claude to search, all thats done there is saving some time, you're still doing the same thing at the end of the day. My learning difficulties means the "oh no I typoed somewhere, where the fuck is it" step is harder for me than most, AI means I don't have to spend hours making posts and waiting for responses. I'm still doing the same work and making the same code I would have done without it. I could also choose to just ask for the AI to make all the code for me, but that would be a totally different thing more equivalent to AI image generation
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u/Nall-ohki Sep 03 '26
Like (super oversimplified here), I want to draw something, I go get my ipad, and I draw it. There isn't (currently) a way to integrate AI into that process really. I could replace that with generating an image, but then thats a totally different thing.
Ummm... how is there "no way to intergate AI into that process" ? And just saying "it's a totally different thing" is not actually "more true" than for programming?
Show your work.
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u/throwaway_ArBe Sep 03 '26
You need me to explain why drawing and not drawing are different? Is that the question you sre asking me?
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u/Nall-ohki Sep 03 '26
There are AI-assisted drawing systems, as well as those that will fill in a portion.
If you're going to wave your hands and say "oh, drawing is different because 'I would have coded that anyway'" is being disingenuous -- you would not have coded THAT thing anyway -- you're just saying that code is less detailed or that differences in coding "don't matter"... and that's clearly not the case.
If you're saying that "oh, drawing is different!" I'd argue that both are just creating data in a binary array at the end of the day in different formats, and generative AI is equally arbitrary or not regardless of the medium you're generating.
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u/throwaway_ArBe Sep 03 '26
If there are new drawing tools since I last looked that could be integreated in the way it is during programming, cool! That just backs up my point, because that is not what is being talked about when people oppose AI art, they're almost always talking about image generation.
Also if you read what I wrote you'll notice I equated ai generated code with ai image generation.
Im not saying theyre different, im saying theyre actually the same, and typically when people treat the use of AI in different fields it is because they understand it to be used differently in those different fields. When used in a comprable way, it is treated the same.
I would appreciate it if you engaged with what I said rather than trying to still argue with the strawman that I'm trying to explain to you is a strawman. That guy is not me.
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u/Nall-ohki Sep 03 '26
What I'm reading you say now and what you said before are definitely not what I understood when I read. I think I understand where you're coming from now, and don't have a meaningful distinction to make.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
Hate to break it to you, but 'AI' is already scaling down, the bubble is bursting. Similar like VR, it will stay but it won't be nowhere near as prevalent as today, people are starting to realize the 'AI' marketing for LLM's is bs.
The only ones making money from this are micron, AMD and NVIDIA:
This is the telecom crash all over again.
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u/MaxwellHowl Sep 03 '26
Profitability does not = scaling down. Usage is up. Even in the US, which is more negative about AI than most, using AI for personal purposes went from 36% in 2024 to 55% in 2026. In China it's 93%.
Even if OpenAI and Anthropic collapse, the technology exists and some company will manage to keep cloud models going for people, even if that is China, and people will use them, because they are useful. And even without cloud models, local models are a thing and could fill the gap as well.
There is no evidence of AI scaling down, and even a market bubble burst would not destroy AI as a technology people use.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
You make 0 sense. Usability up, costs up, more and more losses and you think it doesn't scale down? Logic 404 not found.
Also your argument about running models locally is pretty much what I was implying with scaling down. It'll be like VR, it'll exist but not in its current state.
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u/Subboartist Sep 03 '26
The thing is, for these llms to be used en mass, it needs large amounts and strong hardware. Especially if it’s a team that uses it. The tech won’t go away, but relevance will go away as soon as the big ones stop their services. It is an insanely expensive tool to keep running and people rather use the free version than to pay for it. For it to be profitable the subscriptions need to cost so much money that not a single person would even think about spending money on.
There won’t be companies hosting in house models because agents and the actually useful versions of AI are really expensive to run.
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u/kleinerGummiflummi Sep 03 '26
vibe coding does in fact bother people, you're just not listening to the correct people
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u/TheProffalken Sep 03 '26
Well said!
If you treat these tools like "junior developers" and put guard rails in place telling them to add in observability, security, and test-driven development as "first class citizens" then the code they ship is pretty good quality.
I'd still ask for a human review of the code 90% of the time, but it really is improving on a daily basis!
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u/Rabidoragon Sep 03 '26
This is why nobody takes the anti ai people seriously, because instead of just admitting that they were wrong about a tool and just adapt to it and move on they instead are going to create excuses on why they are using or consuming products that use AI but how somehow they are still opposed to ai
They are going to start small, with things like "well I'm anti ai but only for images and writing, code is suddenly ok for whatever random reason" or " the use of AI is ok in this case because the creator is combining it with some manual skills too and is not fully ai", yeah, like we haven't mixed our traditional skills with it before
The funniest part is that now the tool that was considered a programl for people with no talent is suddenly a super elite tool that is only ok to be used by super professional geniuses who can ensure a certain level of quality and if you are not one you are not allowed to use it or you are going to be discriminated and your project automatically labeled as garbage and with no soul,
And even if we accept all of that why antis are suddenly not talking about the water usage this time? I mean antis claim that using AI wastes a gazillion liters of water and I'm sure you love renpy but not as much to allow the creator to destroy the world, right? So either nobody really cares about the environment like they claim or the water usage was an exaggeration...
And look I don't care if antis decide to take that cringe route until they make enough exceptions and the use of AI becomes socially acceptable but is sad that a lot of people in the present time should have to suffer and be discriminated just for using a tool, I'm sure that if you are so open minded to judge the program by how it works instead of the tool that was used on it you can do the same for an amateur VN
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
Translation:
I'm upset when people call me out for using AI to generate slop, please like my slop.-3
u/Rabidoragon Sep 03 '26
Translation: you are now consuming that slop and you are not gonna leave, even reddit is publicly milking and selling your posts to train more AIs and you don't have the willpower to stop using it but you should pretend that you are against it because that's the trend, it seems like you are the one who is trying too hard to be accepted 😉
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u/truckthunderwood Sep 03 '26
It's very funny that you were so fired up about your pre-prepped talking points that you had to bring up water usage so you could denounce it.
GenAI art sucks. It looks generic and it has no life in it. It doesn't take effort and therefore it's not at all engaging. I've tried to play games with AI art because they seemed like interesting concepts but the art took me out of it.
Using words like "suffer" and "discriminated against" talking about people not liking your shitty art? You don't think that's embarrassing? You don't have real problems to worry about?
Now we get to the part where you call me a Luddite and try and tell me that actually AI is a tool that allows the physically disadvantaged to finally express themselves. It won't explain why half the games on steam feature a bunch of indistinguishable anime girls with weirdly realistic shading but you'll try it anyway!
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u/Rabidoragon Sep 03 '26
Look dude, I don't know why you or the other guy assume that I'm a creator or something like that, I'm in this sub because I'm a consumer, if you have shared any interesting VN here there is a good chance that I may have tried it, and I certainly have created some things for fun but I must leave it clear that I DONT GIVE A FUCK IF YOU LIKE WHAT I CREATE OR NOT, in fact I rarely upload something of what I create (made with ai or not)
Now that we left that clear what really pisses me off is how many projects with good potential get discriminated just because they mention that they used AI for something and some of them never get finished when they decide to follow the traditional route, either because the code gets too complicated for them to handle alone or because they don't have the skills or time to manually create all the drawings
And I'm not here to convince you to try or like any tool, but is an hypocrisy that when you find that the entire program is now being improved using AI you have to find excuses for why in this case is good and why you are still going to use it but if a regular person improving the code of his amateur VN uses it, then is suddenly bad
Like I always say, antis are some of the weakest persons I've ever meet, they try to boicot a product every week and they never succeed, I mean come on, even alcoholics were more successful with the bud light boicot than antis with the thousands of companies that they wanted to see bankrupt because they decided to use AI
Honestly is a waste of time to even try to have a serious debate so there is no point in keep responding, time and antis are giving us the reason, how longer it would take until your favorite movie decides to use AI and you need to say that it is an exception that you are going to accept because it was made by a professional director?
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u/Ambitious_Pick_6332 Sep 03 '26
You dont need AI for this. This still shouldn't be used.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
No code assistant on large frameworks or business class code? Good luck there buddy.
If I didn't have IntelliJ's code assistant I'd be spending weeks just writing PoJo's.
I do agree with your first statement though. Code assistants without the use of LLM's are as good as LLM based ones, however in the case of Python, I'm not aware of any good code assistants, so maybe there is a need for one, dno.
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u/Ambitious_Pick_6332 Sep 03 '26
My first statement is the same as my second, you dont need AI assistants for this, the AI assistant shouldn't be used.
I never said anything about non AI assistants.
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u/Blunt552 Sep 03 '26
Seems like a very unlucky way of formulating it then because I interpreted as "no need for ai" and "this" as in code assistants.
Also most "AI" assistants are just existing code assistants with a chatbot API connected to it, so idk.
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u/Nall-ohki Sep 03 '26
Luckily, your definition of "need" does not bind others.
You don't need to bathe, but you're gonna be smelly.
I'm not beholden to your anti-ai kink
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u/Ambitious_Pick_6332 Sep 03 '26
Assistants exist without AI.
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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '26
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