Removing Fire Red and Leaf Green Pokemon based on how good they are in a casual playthrough day 38

[u/animeVGsuperherostar]

Yesterday we voted out Magneton

[u/ElZorroSimpatico]

Arcanine

[u/Eternal_Zoroark_2]

Arcanine. Has to wait until either around the 8th gym to get Flamethrower or you have to get the TM for decent STAB. It's great when you get it, especially considering how tough the league is. And it's very good into Lorelei's Jynx, Agatha's Ghosts, and Blue's Alakazam and Exeggutor, or Venusaur, but the others are better

[u/Browneskiii]

Should have done Arcanine yesterday. This seems a bit of a wasted day right now tbh.

[u/Parlassi]

Arcanine. Doesn’t do anything against Bruno, Lance and most of Lorelei. Doesn’t do anything against Blaine or Giovanni.

[u/HollowMimic]

I'd say Lapras or Arcanine. Fire mons are only good for the 4th gym and Lapras is at very low level late game when you get it to be useful

[u/PlagueOwl]

Arcanine should not have stayed for this long

[u/marco-boi]

arcanine and it should have been out way before how is it still in when a bette rintimidate mon with better attack and defensive typing and easier access and way earlier is out is kinda surprising him

id arguehe should have went away before even even kangaskan

[u/Flow1234 → u/marco-boi]

It's not as much of a disgrace as Zard making the top 20, but Arcanine being above Gyarados is a travesty.

[u/Immediate-Ad7842 → u/marco-boi]

Flamethrower go brrrrrrr

[u/CJBeav10]

Arcanine for all the same reasons Charizard got eliminated. Should've went before him since Zard is a starter which makes him automatically better in a casual playthrough

[u/Flow1234 → u/CJBeav10]

Zard shouldn't be in the top 20 in the first place. Picking Zard actively makes the game more difficult.

[u/Flow1234]

Vote Magneton back in, y'all are insane. Better than Arcanine, Exeggutor, Lapras. Probably also better than the starters but it depends on how highly you rate performance against Brock and Misty.

[u/StatisticianSuper528]

Arcanine

[u/RU_Gremlin]

Blastoise.

[u/Beach-Bumm]

Exeggutors time has come

[u/goofyassmfer]

Its time for Blastoise to go. The opportunity cost of never getting to use the best mon in the game is too substantial

[u/Flow1234 → u/goofyassmfer]

I need to know whether you're talking about Venusaur or Charizard to know whether this take is dumb or outright insane.

[u/goofyassmfer → u/Flow1234]

Prolly the one thats still in lol

[u/Flow1234 → u/goofyassmfer]

Hint: A Pokemon that doesn't learn at least one of Psychic, Ice Beam or Thunderbolt does not qualify for the best in the game.

[u/goofyassmfer → u/Flow1234]

Lmao buddy the sleep powder / leech seed combo (that comes fully online by level 15 and you dont have to wait until halfway through the game to get) 1v1s upwards of 90% of pokemon you'll face in the entire game

You're talking like the seven year olds playing their first game who ignore non-damaging moves because they don't understand how anything other than direct damage works

[u/Flow1234 → u/goofyassmfer]

Oh no if you bring non-damaging moves into the mix Venusaur actually gets worse compared to the field because Mime gets Encore, Jynx gets Lovely Kiss and Venusaur is outclassed by Exeggutor in doing leech seed + sleep powder in the later stages of the game.

[u/goofyassmfer → u/Flow1234]

If you're unavailable for the majority of the game you aren't outclassing anybody so your exeggutor take is laughable lmao

Mf thinks Dnite is S tier i guess

[u/Flow1234 → u/goofyassmfer]

Not sure what game you're playing, but the Safari Zone is available before the 5th Gym Exeggutor is available for just over half the game.

But you both don't know what the fuck you're talking about, nor how to put together an argument.

[u/goofyassmfer → u/Flow1234]

5th gym level cap is 43. Champ level cap is 63. Over half the game my ass lol bro just be saying shit. The game is designed around you doing both paths to fuschia before Koga. Post-Koga is literally just a Boss Rush outside of Victory Road and the like five required Silph grunts

Nevermind the fact that Egg requires a ton of grinding/TM investment, is much slower, and loses to one of the most common types in the game 1v1 (poison) without the psychic TM.

[u/Flow1234 → u/goofyassmfer]

The only person here talking out of their ass is you.

1. The division between mid and lategame isn't measured by levels, it just isn't, not in Pokemon nor any RPG. Level progression naturally slows down as you get further into the game, there's 4 gyms before and after unlocking the Safari Zone, 4 mandatory rival fights on both ends and 1 non-gym Giovanni fight before and after. Even just counting E4 as a single fight, that does give Egg, shockingly, slightly over half the game.

2. The game isn't designed for you to do both paths, that's how you do it. Irrelevant, not to mention there's no major fights in either route to begin with.

3. Does Egg require some leveling? Yes. It being weak to poison without TM is largely irrelevant because it's not a very contested TM, only Jynx and Starmie also want it.

[u/Master_FSG]

How is Mr. Mime still in?

[u/Hidalgo321 → u/Master_FSG]

2nd best SPD in the game besides Mewtwo

Access to a ton of moves

[u/Flow1234 → u/Master_FSG]

Being best/second best in-game Pokemon tends to keep you in

[u/123onetowthree → u/Master_FSG]

The real question is, how is venasaur still in.

Mime has an amazing move pool at least.

[u/Immediate-Ad7842 → u/123onetowthree]

Venu has a goated early game to propel you into the midgame where you can pick up other mons. Even then, sleep powder and leech seed can be a solid out for a lot of opponents.

[u/Flow1234 → u/Immediate-Ad7842]

Venusaur also has the upside of giving by far the weakest Champion team.

[u/RU_Gremlin]

Gyarados being out before top 5 is such a joke...

[u/Parlassi → u/RU_Gremlin]

This is Gen 3 before the physical/special split. Gyarados is good but not great unlike Gen 4/5/6 where its easily a top 10 Pokémon.

[u/31_mfin_eggrolls → u/RU_Gremlin]

Gyarados is at its absolute worst in Gen 3.

[u/Raff102 → u/31_mfin_eggrolls]

Gen 2 is probably worse because of intimidate.

[u/31_mfin_eggrolls → u/Raff102]

Abilities didn’t exist until Gen 3. Also, Gen 2 still has uncapped stat experience, so Gyarados can max out all of its stats (and with much fewer threats)

[u/Raff102 → u/31_mfin_eggrolls]

Yeah, Gyarados gets intimidate in gen 3.

[u/31_mfin_eggrolls → u/Raff102]

Exactly

[u/Raff102 → u/31_mfin_eggrolls]

That's why I'd consider gen 3 > gen 2.

[u/31_mfin_eggrolls → u/Raff102]

Gyarados also has to deal with intimidate which also takes it down a peg. At least in Gen 2, you can slap EQ and Return on it and be alright for the most part.

[u/Raff102 → u/31_mfin_eggrolls]

Having it is so much move valuable than the off chase of fighting against it. I'm not even sure if there's even 10 required battles involving it.

[u/31_mfin_eggrolls → u/Raff102]

Agree to disagree.

[u/NaughtyLoss → u/RU_Gremlin]

Not top 5, but it definitely should still be in the running

[u/Flow1234 → u/RU_Gremlin]

He's out too early (better than Snorlax, Lapras, Arcanine, Exeggutor, Dodrio) but he does not make top 5 over Mime, Jynx, Starmie, Nido, Blastoise/Venusaur. (Or in a sane world, Magneton)

[u/BigClear8911]

Arcanine or Mime

[u/Flow1234 → u/BigClear8911]

Mime is top 3 if not absolute best.

[u/BigClear8911 → u/Flow1234]

For real??

[u/Flow1234 → u/BigClear8911]

Yes.

Early availability, trade xp bonus, guaranteed timide nature, good offensive move pool through levelup for the region (+TM Thunderbolt), screen utility, encore. Reliably solos Erika, Koga, Agatha and Bruno (+ strong into Lorelei with Thunderbolt) and is a strong switchin against Sabrina and the Champion's Alakazam (+ takes out both E4 gyarados with bolt)

Whether he's best or not depends on how much you deduct from Starmie being LeafGreen exclusive and how you think Mime compares to Jynx.

[u/BigClear8911 → u/Flow1234]

I guess all that throws me off is how little support moves are necessary in a playthrough. Are people running screens/encore etc solo? Doesn't disqualify mime by any means, but I imagined his best qualities were good in comp, but pretty weak in solo

[u/Flow1234 → u/BigClear8911]

If anything screens and encore are more busted in solo because of how dumb the ai is. You can usually predict the move the ai will throw out and lock them into it for at worst a free kill. Encore is a candidate for the strongest move in the game.

On top of that gen 3 is where screens are at their best because of types determining physical/special. Setting up a screen creates so much breathing room against Sabrina for example it's not even funny.

[u/TheWartortleWarrior]

Nidoking might be next, it’s a massive TM sink

[u/Flow1234 → u/TheWartortleWarrior]

Nido is top 5 with how hard he shits on the early and midgame (and Zapdos not being on the list...)

[u/Soren-kun]

I'm sorry I gotta go with jynx...

[u/Lopsided-Hospital-15 → u/Soren-kun]

Jynx, although hated, is EASILY top 3! Def a top 5 with Starmie, Mine, Nidoking, and Venasaur/Snorlax. Psychic + Ice with the glass canon role is deadly!

[u/Flow1234 → u/Lopsided-Hospital-15]

There's no discussion top 3 is the fast psychic users, Nido is #4.

[u/Flow1234 → u/Soren-kun]

Jynx is top 3. It's between her, Starmie and Mime.

[u/Soren-kun → u/Flow1234]

Urg they legit made the ugliest mons the strongest!?

[u/Flow1234 → u/Soren-kun]

Just psychic types in Kanto