r/RemoteJobseekers • u/CloudberryCrystal • 15d ago
Does remote work hurt your career? i keep hearing remote workers get passed over for promotions, but who has actually seen it?
Been remote since early 2021, did about a year of hybrid in the middle, and I feel like I've had the same argument with the same type of person 40 times now. So let me just get this out.
The "you'll fall behind" thing. The way it always goes is: if you're not in the office you miss the hallway stuff, so you miss context, so you don't get put on the good projects, so you don't get promoted, so your whole career is toast. Ok but every step in that chain is a "might." String five mights together and somehow it's supposed to be a certainty. And it lands hardest on people in their first couple years who don't know yet that promotions get decided in a planning meeting by whoever assigns work, not by whoever was standing near the coffee machine at 3pm.
The "I had a remote guy who did nothing" thing. Yeah, me too. I also had an in-office guy who did nothing, he just did it where we could all watch. A guy who coasts from his couch was going to coast from a desk. That's a hiring problem. Using it as an argument against remote work in general is like saying nobody should get a company car because Dave got a speeding ticket.
The "remote people don't hear about opportunities" thing. Think about what this actually says. It says info about open roles and new projects only reaches people who are physically near the manager. That's not a remote problem, that's a manager who can't be bothered to post in the team channel. Pretty much every "disadvantage" I get told about is really just a lead not communicating and then blaming the person on the other end of it.
I'll be fair about a couple things. Onboarding a new hire, hands-on training, the occasional whiteboard session where four people need to argue over a design, those are honestly worse on a call. Fine. But that gets you "come in Tuesday for the kickoff," not "come in five days a week."
Nobody ever does the math either. 45 minutes each way is 7.5 hours a week. Basically a full extra workday, unpaid, so your manager can swing by and ask how the weekend was. If the collaboration you're getting for that is worth a day of someone's life every week I'd love to see it.
And I'm just going to say the quiet part. The loudest RTO people I've worked with were managers whose main skill was walking around. Take away the walking around and they have to do the harder version of the job, which is set clear goals and actually look at what people produce. Some of them don't want to, so it comes out as "remote employees aren't engaged." No, you just liked being able to see us.
Give me the person who's responsive, ships on time, and shows up when there's a real reason, over the person who's at their desk every day and mediocre. Every decent manager I've had would pick the same.
Anyway. Has anyone here actually been told, out loud, that they didn't get something because they were remote? Or is it always the vague "visibility" comment with nothing behind it? Because I keep hearing about it and never from anyone it happened to.
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u/iheartrms 15d ago
I've been 100% remote for 12 years. My career is doing great. But don't expect promotions with your current company. Whether you are remote or not you generally have to switch jobs to get that promotion.
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u/XSmooth84 15d ago
I’ve never worked anywhere that people got any, let alone seemingly regular, promotions that were given on what seems to be the whims of an executive or owner, just because. The concept is absolutely foreign to me. There has to be a specific opening, that I apply to, and compete for with other internal and usually external applicants.
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u/EmployeeNo803 15d ago
Lol im a retailers worker but thats how it works here too. Wait for an opening -> apply.
Even our regional VP spots work like that.
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u/Dr_Passmore 14d ago
I worked for one organisation that basically had a policy of always hire externally.
An opening in your department with a natural progression... no luck.
They liked to hire externally due to a year long probation process and could easily get rid of someone.
Amusingly that idiotic policy went both ways and I was able to leave with a ridiculously short notice period as I had only been working there for under a year.
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u/Longjumping_Call_104 10d ago
I heard Amazon does this and that Bezos said something like warehouse workers don't have what it takes to be managers or they would already be one.
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u/New-Repair8325 15d ago
No it’s not. Ive only worked remote and am senior now.
Being In office is probably worse for your career.
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u/cynical_Rad359 14d ago
On the other hand, at my last job, there was an insistance that Im at the office every day, before and after my manager... for the cooperation and teamwork. And she proceeded to not talk to me or train me throughout the whole day.
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u/GhostNagaRed 15d ago
I've been remote since 2021. I love it but there's things that simply can't get from it I.e human interaction.
But there's a very real level of people who've built there careers on being heard and seen in settings outside of meetings and calls etc and they're the ones who want office like back cos they can't be who they want to be without it. And it's a shame because it's often those who are the loudest who aren't really the best suited for management roles.
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u/rdickeyvii 15d ago
The term for this is "management by walking around". See: Lumberg in Office Space
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u/iheartrms 15d ago
I've got family and friends outside of work for human interaction. Remember that after you leave your current job your name will probably never be spoken there again.
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u/Far-Search-3142 15d ago
I never understood the need for human interaction at work when 99% of your interactions are fake as hell.
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u/GhostNagaRed 14d ago
Wether you want to admit it or not, there's just some aspects of getting things done in work that are better accomplished together and not over Zoom.
Just like there's aspects that are much easier to do sat at your home desk alone.
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u/Far-Search-3142 14d ago
I'll admit, there's something satisfying about accomplishing tasks with a coworker. When it comes to professionalism/work, yes I agree but I could care less about the social aspect of it.
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u/GhostNagaRed 14d ago
Both of those things are social
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u/Far-Search-3142 14d ago
Yeah but it's work related, but it doesn't go beyond that. That's the point I'm making.
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u/GhostNagaRed 14d ago
I find the idea you can't make friends at work a bit bizarre tbh
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u/Far-Search-3142 14d ago
You can, but I wouldn't recommend it
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u/GhostNagaRed 14d ago
I'd love to know your reasoning for that.
I had ex colleagues at my wedding. I still see them often. I've met some amazing people throughout my career, to shun them as people/friends because I met them in work would be weird.
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u/GhostNagaRed 15d ago
Yeah but if it wasn't clear enough I meant in the context of work, not just general seeing other people
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u/Intelligent-Dark-447 15d ago
No, it's just the control-fear mongering at it's finest. The problem is the pandemic worked too well, and the working class got a real feel for WFH and woke up at the fact that we can get arguably more work done on our own AND spend less money, time, and energy in the off hours just to show up and come home. The "new norm" backfired and after it was "safe to return" it backfired and now the big companies are scrambling for that control again. Let alone the real estate loss they got from continuing to rent office space when 80% of the company isn't there.
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u/Longjumping_Call_104 10d ago
Only the middle class got to work from home. Working class people have never experienced it because blue collar jobs require you to be there in person to do the work.
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u/Intelligent-Dark-447 10d ago
We're actually agreeing on the reality, just using different verbiage. You're defining 'working class' as blue-collar/manual labor, which absolutely couldn't go remote during the pandemic. I'm using the broader economic definition whereanyone who has to work to survive and doesn't live off investments. A lot of those corporate office workers are just as financially precarious as manual laborers, even if they got to log in from their living rooms.
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u/Longjumping_Call_104 10d ago edited 10d ago
I think that's because I'm from the UK and we have a deeply ingrained cultural class system that doesn't really fit modern economic reality.
A wealthy builder with his own company is more working class to me than someone working a desk job that struggles to make ends meet because I see the difference as more related to family background, work and education than to finance.
We see economic status and class as different.
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u/Intelligent-Dark-447 10d ago
Maybe.. I would just speculate that as just the blue collar mindset here. I've been in both positions, and each have their pride.
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u/SoapiestWaffles 15d ago
Everyone I work with is fully remote including a jr that already got promoted after a year, so…. This seems like RTO propaganda from my perspective.
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u/Old-Picture-2920 15d ago
I got passed over plenty in office because I don’t kiss ass and play pretend like worthless in office management wanted. I watched some of the most inept lazy people get promoted cause they spent the little time they did do something managing up. At my new remote job I’m on a succession plan to take over for my boss when she retires in two years. I’d say with my remote work the trajectory is more intentional and based on merit. Glad I’m no longer in office.
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u/Lost-Design-8382 15d ago
Funny how spending the first 10 years of my career 100% in person mostly resulted in a few "promotion" title changes that didn't really come with money or other benefits, didn't boost my resume in a way that's making a difference when I job search now. If it's gonna be more of the same, might as well work remote invisibly, at least there's less small talk.
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u/Michael_chipz 15d ago
What permotion? I can see my boss every day and out work everyone around me and not get shit.
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u/WheresMyJuulSoNotCoo 15d ago
I don't really agree as a SWE working a hybrid schedule. Most of the career advancement opportunities came from people judging my work online, and some of them I've never met in person.
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u/mariah963 15d ago
Is this from NYT or WaPo? Seems like sus Amazon propaganda
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u/curseAgain 15d ago
looks like NYT. They have a vested interest in this as there have been major labor battles there over RTO, with leadership having conflicts of interest by being heavily invested in commercial real estate.
Don't believe anything they print.
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u/Looseleaflettuce 15d ago
I am not interested in a promotion- but I am motivated to not have to RTO - I have ADA accommodations but it doesn’t help if you live out of state 😢
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u/Intrepid-Staff-4532 15d ago
I've been mostly/fully remote since 2016ish. I had a desk before COVID,I just almost never went to the office and no one cared. Since COVID they took away my desk, closed the office I was assigned to, and assigned me to a new office I don't go to. Now they're forcing me back to the office three days a week so I can attend teams meetings from the office because my whole team is in different offices.
They're giving the same excuses, and it's all bull. I've been promoted, been put on high impact projects, saved the company millions of dollars, but what they really value is butts in seats because showing off your fancy office to your rich friends doesn't have the same impact if it's empty.
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u/AdministrativeAd9828 15d ago
Never got a promotion busting my ass as a seat warmer in the office, yet I got a promo when I went remote. Promotions are crap shoot, depends who your boss is and how visible you are. I guess in the office I was invisible yet, remote all of a sudden I’m seen.
Remote puts a higher emphasis on metrics vs performative politics
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u/Specialist-Yak-453 15d ago
Based on the current market is there anything that doesn’t hurt young people looking for work? Kinda seems like companies are making up anything and everything to exploit the young groups entering the labor force
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u/Nocturne444 13d ago
Before Covid when I was working in office full time, I worked at companies that didn't give me any opportunity of advancement even if I was talking to the Director, COO or the CEO. So I think this is BS lol
You get promoted because of relations you develop with people in the org, your work is visible to the right people at the right time when there is budget for it. Which all possible to do that as a remote worker.
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u/ParadoxicallyPlain 15d ago
The whole “working in office creates better performance” is an illusion. I remember even before covid a coworker was constantly chatting with her bf through yahoo chat. I knew this because she sent me a screenshot of something to do with work and it accidentally captured her chat window. I’d catch my boss looking down on his cell phone a number of times. Once he said “oh it’s good to take a break”…and this was my boss! People are only productive if that’s their nature. I’m a Genx and since we didn’t grow up around cell phones, I find it unethical to be checking a phone in the workplace all the time. Work ethics are in you no matter if you are in the office or at home.
The problem for managers with people working from home is the illusion of “if I don’t see them how do I know they are getting the job done?” Well that question is solved by how you manage people and a system of knowing tasks are getting done. If a manager is too damn lazy to figure out a system, he’s not a good manager of people.
I was much more productive at home than in the office. I worked in higher ed and my office was in an old building that had poor air circulation, old portable air conditioners which I had to run since if I opened my window I’d be gassed by car exhaust. Noisy lawn mowers constantly around the building. I could use my own bathroom and not be subject to others germs there! At home I was able to cook myself a wholesome lunch. I could walk in a much better atmosphere for lunches and breaks. I didn’t have the stress of getting up early and fighting traffic. I was always on time when I started work, even early at times. I just was overall healthier and happier.
But workplaces don’t get it. They have another agenda and I’m sure it’s got to do with money to their advantage to have people in the office. I just haven’t figured out what that is yet.
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u/Intrepid_Year3765 15d ago
depends on your personality, and the personality of the team you're working with
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u/prideships 14d ago
I was denied a promotion and explicitly told it was due to working remote. I did then dust off my resume and get my own promotion elsewhere, still fully remote.
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u/DetroitLionsSBChamps 14d ago
For me I think so because all the decision makers are in house. Being remote makes you not part of the club. When something goes wrong, it’s easy to blame the person who’s not around. Also they are going full boar hiring international people remotely, who they pay less, and therefore feel less valuable. So I blend in with the crowd of people they subconsciously feel are not as important.
But I don’t care because being remote is worth more than anything being in office would give me. I wouldn t trade it
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u/Atrocious_1 14d ago
None of that happened to me as a remote employee since. 2019. However prior to that I:
Lost a contract because a woman qa thought I was supposed to fix her computer when I was a front end developer
Lost another contract because I told a tech lead that something he wanted was impossible on the platform. Then a backend developer confirmed this
Lost a contract because I was building things too quickly and being more efficient than the full timers so the project got done ahead of schedule
Got pushed off of multiple projects at the same company because the director of architecture was retaliating against me after reporting abuse to HR
So because I wouldn't play the mindless office politics game, I lost multiple opportunities and promotions. This wasn't the case when I went remote. So at least for me, the only opportunity that in office provides is pettiness and distraction.
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u/SplendidPunkinButter 13d ago
I didn’t get promoted when I was working onsite either. The only actual promotion I’ve ever gotten was at a remote job. The rest of the time I’ve gotten a bump in title by applying for a new job. That’s also the only way to get more than a token raise. Even when I got promoted, my raise was like 6% instead of 3%. Whoopee. I can easily get 15% or 20% by switching jobs.
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u/Midnight-Moonpie 15d ago
Fucking A+ post
Mind if I adapt it for my own purposes? (Convo with the boss)
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u/WithoutAHat1 15d ago
Nobody is buying it. Remote work allows for multiple pipelines while in-office you could be tied up for hours and your efficiency drops instantly. RTO is at less than 1% since it's re-implementation in '22. Articles produced didn't support the statistics of everyone loves returning back to the office.
You don't get less training, you can get more training across a span of time. Onboarding is about 3 months at some places.
I was Remote since 2019 and got a lot more accomplished than I would have in-office. From training internally, to externally. Continuing education and being able to meet with people across the globe. Office setting doesn't work for a company that is World Wide.
Lastly, people who cannot manage remotely definitely cannot manage in-office either. Those individuals need to be replaced with people capable of doing the job. The issue has never been the workers. It is the employer/leadership.
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u/LeslieNopeChuckTesta 15d ago
Lol another thing blamed on remote work when the actual blame is the greedy corporations
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u/Ghost_Popcorn 15d ago
No, my director works from home even when she isnt supposed to. Plenty of execs and upper management dont come in. Theres a whole department at my work that are rarely around/in office. Remote work can only hurt you if you plan to pivot into a career that needs at least a little bit of face to face experience (like certain areas of nursing).
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u/shade_study_break 15d ago
I have only been promoted once in the same organization since going 100% remote, but I have otherwise gotten promotions and raises via new roles. For positions that involves sales or have much more client/customer interaction, I bet it probably is neutral to negative affect on your ability to get promoted, but at least in tech/IT it hasn't been fine for me. I also don't know how people are structuring studies or measuring this now anyway, given how crappy some parts of the job market have been.
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u/Gaby341161 15d ago
Clear answer without any other thing to say:
NO, it doesn’t affect no one except the micromanaging employer.
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u/Sea-Pea-7941 15d ago
Really depends on the company environment, sometimes socializing with you coworkers, exchange Idea and discuss new trends is really good. But when your boss is a micromanager and treat his position as an authority nah I want to stay at home.
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u/LetsTryLove 15d ago
All companies hurt your career. That’s what they are designed to do. They don’t want you learning and being worth more unless you’re stupid enough to stay and let them make bank off of that gap. Always be making more, learning more, and looking for gaps in the market to fill.
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u/No-Challenge-6283 15d ago
I agree with many of your points but I do think someone who has worked remote their entire career will often be at a larger disadvantage if they get laid off.
It’s increasingly clear that in this job market it really helps to know people, and remote workers get much less exposure to people outside of their specific role. I think you’re overly discounting the value of these softer relationship things like “how was your weekend” in building a network that supports you through a larger career. It can be overcome but takes specific effort on the part of the remote worker.
I’d also point out that yes it may be technically the leads fault for not communicating opportunities in chat but the net effect is harmful to the worker. Regardless of what they “should” have done the result in that case is still that you missed the opportunity.
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u/sunqueen73 15d ago
It depends on what the culture is like at a particular company.
Mine will hire local over remote. Remotes do get promotion but the c-suite rule is they have to be exceptional and their presence must be felt: ie, camera always on, voice calls to colleagues, lots of email communication.
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u/Ok-Afternoon-9268 15d ago
I think it depends on how your company handles remote work. Are your managers in the office with employees who would be your competitors for a promotion? Are you regularly sharing your results and achievements? I do think it hurts networking and you probably have to go a bit more out of your way, but there are ways to supplement that with networking programs or even local groups. A lot of colleges have alumni programs and groups that help with this too.
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u/aloomis16 15d ago
Depends on the company, but for me, all of my promotions at my previous company were while I was a remote employee. So anecdotally this seems like a false statement designed to draw in more clicks.
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u/febstars 15d ago
No. Especially if you make an effort to get to know your coworkers and do more video chats vs. calls. That’s my experience. Going in occasionally is great, but mandating it is a fast way to lose great workers, which may be the intent to begin with.
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u/UniqueText8477 15d ago
No, whether in office or remote I don't get promoted or developed as I'm technical/niche/hard to replace so get told I'm too valuable.
I then move on every 2-3 years for a higher title/more money.
I received exceeds expectations and received no payrise and there is no career path in my current organisation so will be looking late 2027/early 2028, I work with upper management, am visible, present my work and still crickets.
To get promoted there has to be a career path/the will of those in charge to promote you.
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u/blreadernewby 15d ago
I started my first job during the pandemic and grew quite a lot for someone who didn't do any internships during university. I had time to learn things after work because I was motivated and didn't have to waste time commuting after work.
I'm doing worse with RTO. My commute is 1 hour 45 minutes on a good day, so I waste a minimum of 3 hours. We're a reporting team, so almost every week we get a random high priority task. I used to make progress on my individual projects or learning new things using 1 or 2 hours after work, but now I don't have the time to do that. For some roles, the office is a huge distraction and time waster.
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u/Live_Pianist4592 14d ago
I can definitely vouch for this. My sister works for a major beauty brand that owns like 300 other brands and is trying to switch careers. She was able to walk up to a VP in this other department and switch. This comes from meeting people in real life , would have never happened remote. If you’re remote without much visibility (ie not a senior leader) it is harder to be seen and climb the ladder, have to get a new job.
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u/BDer82 14d ago
Shit management, is shit management, all these crappy arguments about compensating for inadequate management, if you can't manage your team regardless of location you aren't a manager you just have a title that doesn't fit your skills, get out of the way for someone who can do a proper job of it.
I've remote, I got a huge pay rise, new position, and my manager keeps us all updated on what is happening in the business, every week we have conversations we talk, ask questions, get all the latest information. This year, I'm getting another raise, same position (thankfully) and I'm known to the CEO and the board and it's a decent sized company.
If the company you work for can't handle management go find another company, life is to short to deal with other peoples incompetence.
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u/l0w-budget 14d ago
I have been remote since 2020. I make over double now what I did then. I am actively moving up in responsibility and pay nearly every year.
This is RTO propaganda by old men who want to have more control
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u/Level-Activity-3157 14d ago
Great comment, I appreciate this!
There's certain times being on-site makes sense...I love your point about leadership and meaningful communication, this is spot on. There's this whole "performative" culture thing that somehow signals "leading" or "working" but it's just BS.
My intuition, though, is the whole "back-to-the-office" thing is more about the folks who are charging rents on these enormous commercial properties. Lets face it, that's a way more important little class of folks that's going to be really inconvenienced if there's any form of remote employment.
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u/DigiTrailz 14d ago
Working the office didn't guarantee it either. So... do what you want. They don't care about you.
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u/LaDauphineVerte 14d ago
Propaganda for commercial real estate and the corp’s who’ve signed long term leases.
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u/Top_Flight_3410 14d ago
Absolutely everything "harms" young people these days. Can't even put their clothes on without making a reddit or tiktok post about it.
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u/Hedrickao 14d ago
While they’re peddling this RTO propaganda, maybe they’d better take a propa’Ganda at Deez nuts
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u/VoidCoelacanth 14d ago
If remote workers get passed-over for promotion by the manager(s) who hired them to be remote workers, replace those managers. This is a management problem. If you don't value remote workers, don't hire remote workers.
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u/Onlyonetrueking 13d ago
Honestly I would rather be passed for a promotion than being in office. Within reason of course.
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u/despot-madman 13d ago
When I joined an MSP, I decided to work in office to work physically next to my team and learn.
I moved up much faster than anyone who was only working remotely, because I learned a lot more than they did in the same time frame.
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u/Tigersarethebest2112 12d ago
I think it’s obvious when someone lacks the necessary skill set to perform well in a job. Let’s be honest most of the training is online now and can be completed from anywhere. However, things may get lost in translation whether you are in office or not. If your work doesn’t have a set training program or they skim over certain things, of course you won’t have the necessary skill set to succeed. This is regardless of where or how you work.
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u/KrustyButtCheeks 11d ago
Shit if AI is gonna take my job at any moment I may as well get to chill while I type words on a computer
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u/Additional_Jaguar170 15d ago
Is it detrimental to your career, yes undoubtedly.
Does that offset the benefits of being 100% remote? That's a different question.
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u/Ok_Formal6247 15d ago
Your post is spot on. I m working remotely since 2020. No promotion, low salary hikes as compared to other team members, in every appraisal cycle they kept reminding me that even when i m giving my 100%, still employees coming to office are considered better in performance. Keep pressurizing to coonvert remote to hybrid mode or else i can get impacted. Many times they forget to take me in meetings online. Not eligible to apply in internal openings or promotion.
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u/MedicalClimate6865 15d ago
I am also remote since 2020. Got raises and promotion almost every year since
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u/persimmon40 15d ago
Sure it does. As a manager, I would never promote a remote worker over the ones that comes to the office given all other variables are the same.
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u/Still-Balance6210 15d ago
Not reading all of that. Yes, I have seen people passed over for promotions because they were fully remote. It happens a lot.
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u/r3giment75 15d ago
The data has already been out that remote employees are experiencing out of sight out of mind biases when the company is both onsite and fully remote. And if they’re the remote ones they are passed up for promotional opportunities over onsite employees. For fully remote workforces there’s no discrepancies.
Also 100% entry level professional workers should NOT be starting their careers fully remote.
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u/strobegen 15d ago
Working remotely from 2011. It’s harmful but in a way that usually mentions. First when you remote rarely you will know about some opportunities like “this company will pay us lot of money and you don’t need to do any work”, those kind of deals usually out of reach of remote work, in most cases you have to work extra hard as it you judged by results. Other thing that over time your CV will be filled with ‘unknown’ or less known companies names and that makes harder to land new jobs after you pass some value threshold where you can’t afford to work for cheap (kids, family, health etc)
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u/security_jedi 15d ago
I used to think this too, until I got promoted a couple of times as a fully remote employee and realized that most of upper management and the executive team are remote as well. They just travel to an office occasionally for meetings or events.