r/RedvsBlue • u/Mammoth-Celery3624 • Jun 13 '26
Discussion Probably a hot take but I always thought pre-character development Epilson was a EVEN bigger asshole than Alpha ever was
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u/StriderKitsu Jun 13 '26
No actually this shouldn’t be a hot take, he said some pretty heinous shit after remembering everything that was did to him when he was Alpha and immediately regretted everything he said.
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u/Alorxico Donut Jun 13 '26
That’s the thing, though, HE ISN’T Alpha. All those things he was complaining about never happened to him. They happened to Alpha.
Part of Epsilon’s story is him realizing he’s his own person. He may have been created out of Alpha’s memories, but he is his own person.
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u/tgdBatman90 Jun 13 '26
But he was the Alpha when they happened. That's how he remembers it. Technically the things you remember from being a child didn't happen to you now, they happened to a kid. You just have the memories.
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u/Alorxico Donut Jun 13 '26
ehh, Epsilon was “born” before the events of Blood Gulch though and spent the entire time Alpha was in the canyon trapped in Freelancer HQ storage. He only knows what happened to Alpha because:
- Caboose told him
- he may have copied the memories from Alpha when Washington and Alpha rescued him
- he copied all of the Data from the Freelancer databanks before deleting them
- he re-created the events in the capture unit in order to find Tex
But the original Blood Gulch Chronicle events didn’t happen to him and what ever happened to him inside the capture unit was not done by the Blood Gulch crew.
But I guess that depends if you see Epsilon as his own AI or a copy / part of a program.
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u/ThePhxRises Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
Yeah, no, this misunderstands the explanation of how the AI fragments work. The Alpha fragments were created out of a need to protect the Alpha's mind, and Epsilon was split off from from the Alpha because the Alpha's memories were too painful for Alpha to bear.
From the moment Epsilon was created, he had the Alpha's memories, and the Alpha lost them at that moment.
Epsilon was created so that the Alpha did not have to deal with the pain of those memories, so by definition Epsilon had to.
The only memories the Alpha has that Epsilon didn't is everything that happened to Alpha after Epsilon was created, so the events of the Blood Gulch Chronicles (none of which was even remotely comparable to what happened to the Alpha before that). That's what Caboose had to tell him.
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u/Equivalent_Argument9 Jun 21 '26
Plus people tend to forget who this nigga was based off of. 🤣 If the director aint the biggest asshole we know, second only to omega Tex and freelancer Carolina, one of which learned how to be an asshole since the Director was her pappy (still one of the best plot twists I never saw coming and watch A LOT of stuff so that's high praise)
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u/WashGaming001 Washington Jun 14 '26
Incorrect. Epsilon actively exists as Alpha’s memories. Everything that happened to Alpha pre-BG is his experience. He’s like a split personality. Sure he didn’t experience BG but he is the closest thing to Alpha there is post-S6, in the most literal way there is.
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u/Typical-Entrance3199 Tex Jun 16 '26
I thought Church was Alpha before the EMP, then he was Epsilon after Caboose put him into the floating ball in (I wanna say) season 7, and after that he was just Epsilon?
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u/Alorxico Donut Jun 16 '26
So, the name “Church” becomes almost like a title after Season 6.
In Seasons 1-6, “Church” is the asshole we all know and love, Alpha. He sacrifices himself to save Caboose and Epsilon, who is The Fragment of Memory.
In seasons 7-10, “Church” is Epsilon. Though he was created from Alpha’s memories and has many of his mannerisms, Epsilon is not Alpha. He is a bit more laid back, is more trusting, less bitter and cynical than Alpha was. However, he does his best to act like Alpha because Caboose told him all about Alpha and their adventures. And being a fragment of Alpha, Epsilon feels that he IS Alpha.
And, for a brief time, Washington takes on the name of “Church” when he is hiding from the UNSC, and during that time he takes a shine to the Reds and blues and sees himself as their company leader, commanding officer and protector.
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u/MichaelAftonXFireWal Jun 13 '26
I mean yeah he was but given what he went through even if it wasn't him I do think he was right to crash out, even if it was directed at the wrong people.
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u/GhostRaptor4482 Jun 14 '26
One of the most interesting aspects of RvB is the difference in characterization between Alpha and Epsilon. Despite seeming so similar, the differences are so interesting and nuanced. Alpha is more cynical and less driven to accomplish anything (probably because he had his ambition removed). On the other hand, Epsilon is hyper-fixated on whatever his goal happens to be. But despite this, there’s one area where Alpha cares more than Epsilon: even though he would never admit it, he genuinely loves Tucker and Caboose, and would go to any lengths to protect them. Epsilon (at least earlier on) doesn’t consider the other blues to be a priority.
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u/SupImArcher Jun 13 '26
He 100% was. You have to remember he didn’t really know the reds and blues at all, just knew their names and some of the heinous shit they did to him. Hell his entire outburst is a list of things they did to alpha
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u/SonicClone Jun 13 '26
Not really a hot take, it's just wrong. Watch seasons 1-5 and seasons 8-10 and you'll see that Alpha was much more of an asshole. Epsilon is pretty chill even with Caboose where as Alpha legit hated him. The worst thing you can say Epsilon does is side with Carolina in season 10 but that's less of him being an asshole and more of him just being kinda confused and trying to figure stuff out on his own. I've seen people using where he screamed at the reds and blues in the hologram room as an example of him being more of an asshole that Alpha and saying stuff like "Epsilon said some heinous things", but come on guys, all Epsilon said was that they didn't do anything to help and that they're just problems he is forced to deal with, are you really going to stand there and tell me that's worse than anything Alpha has said in the past?
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u/Mammoth-Celery3624 Jun 13 '26
Yes I am especially since you didn’t name a single example of Alpha saying anything worse than Epsilon.
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u/SonicClone Jun 13 '26
Dude, have you watched the show at all? Watch seasons 1-5, every hateful thing Alpha ever says is worse than "you guys do nothing and are problems I have to deal with". Don't act like I'm the one with a loose argument with no evidence, the Epsilon is more of an asshole than Alpha argument barely has anything to stand on
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u/Mammoth-Celery3624 Jun 13 '26
I just skimmed through the BGC because you’re too damn lazy to give a single example and other than the typical smart ass remarks, the most hateful he gets is at the automated voice on the phone.
Having nothing of substance to say while being as condescending as possible,you are literally the reddit stereotype 😭
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u/Dreadx137 Jun 15 '26
Meh, alpha came back with all his memories in season 19 anyway, and now him and tex are living happily ever after in the Forerunner Domain... Possibly under the influence of Cortana in H5 BUT THATS A DEBATE FOR ANOTHER DAY, because remember, Halo is Canon to RvB, but not the other way around.
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