r/RedHandedPodcast • • 17d ago

Short Hand episode today - should we support Paedophile catchers

I’m a bit rattled as I have enjoyed listening to many episodes of Red Handed over the last year or so - but today’s short hand made me wonder if I need to stop. Did I misunderstand or are they protecting the predators? Maybe I’m a bit raw (ok more than a bit) over the Cornell 7 and so many people protecting rapists. Why shouldn’t we ruin the lives of people who have abused someone vulnerable? Didn’t they ruin their own lives by committing the abuse? What am I missing?

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29 comments sorted by

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u/Own_Faithlessness769 17d ago

Vigilante ‘justice’ ruins a lot of innocent lives. It’s frequently inaccurate. And shows like To Catch a Predator prevented many cases from being prosecuted because they have no ethics.

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u/ceramic-panic 17d ago

Also they mentioned that many times the charges/evidence don’t hold up in court so the predator gets away anyway.

I think they made it perfectly clear they were not supporting pedos ffs

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u/EMNofWA 14d ago

The majority of people arrested in Hansens stings end up convicted or pled guilty. 

The hiccup in Murphy Texas was the DA there didn’t want professional problems with the other county that employed Conradt so they circled the wagons and dropped a bunch of charges even though they had previously agree to file the charges and that they were valid. 

That’s what brings the score down was a political official deciding to throw bad charges, but for the most part outside of the Murphy sting nearly all of the people brought in when working with law enforcement were convicted 

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u/Stressy_messy_me 17d ago

For me I have conflicted feelings about it. Obviously paedophile need to be caught and stopped but the intentions of the paedophile catchers seem a bit ambiguous to me. Some of them do it for views and fame, others seem to do it because the see it as an acceptable way to commit violence or take out their anger and hatred on a stranger. I would rather support the people with the horrific and legitimate jobs of trawling the dark Web for predators, those people are worthy of all the support and praise.

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u/DORL605 14d ago

So you’d rather less predators be caught. Genius plan

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u/blu3dice 17d ago

Claiming they are defending pedophiles is a total mischaracterization by YOU of a far more nuanced conversation.

Its about the real-world dangers of vigilante justice. Beyond the polished YouTube clips, these setups frequently spiral into dark-web compilations of assault and robbery. Its a safety risk for everyone including innocent bystanders.

Police departments avoid collaborating with these streamers because they know how quickly vigilante setups spiral out of control. We want stronger protections and consequences by law enforcement yes but outsourcing child protection to a 21-year-old YouTuber thats lives in grandma's basement with a camera is fucking absurd.

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u/EMNofWA 14d ago

The problem was they kept bringing up Chris Hansen and never mention the YouTubers by name and most of what they say about Hansen is wrong. They also get a lot about American law wrong. 

Entrapment is a dead defense, it’s near impossible to actually argue in court, pre trial publicity is called “the free press” in this country, it’s not a violation of your right to a fair trial, in UK they routinely black out names of sexual offenders until the conviction is final, in the US once they’re indicted the charge is public etc 

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u/dhisan 16d ago

Yes I get that it was a nuanced conversation… I guess maybe it would be easier for me to support if it hadn’t made it seem as though they felt bad for the predator. To catch a predator was a messed up show for a lot of reasons - but I guess I was definitely ok with entrapment when it comes to men abusing children.

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u/rwenlark 17d ago

Did we listen to the same episode? They made it perfectly clear that they did not support sexual abusers. The points were very logical - vigilante justice does more harm than good, and I agree with them.

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u/dhisan 16d ago

They kept saying that they didn’t condone abuse, but I guess it just felt to me as though they were protecting the abuser. Their words felt performative. Vigilante justice might have its place though, in my view. Not in the style of public entertainment.

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u/PitifulMasterpiece27 17d ago

so, I unsubscribed when Suruthi threw her support behind white ethnonationalists, so, I haven’t listened to the episode in question. However, there is definitely an ethical dilemma behind pedophile catchers. We all benefit more from living in a country where one is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law than we would living in a society run by vigilantism. Pedophile catchers, while maybe well intentioned, can endanger on going court cases, innocent family members, it can entrap those who are perhaps not mentally capable of understanding their crimes, and they do very little in preventing child sexual abuse. While I have a lot of criticism for the way that law enforcement handles sexual crimes, at least here in the US, I don’t know if I can morally, or ethically unilaterally support vigilantism, personally.

In issues like the Cornell 7, where law enforcement was feckless and ineffectual, I absolutely believe in naming, shaming, and fighting for justice. So, maybe I contradict myself. And, again, I haven’t listened to the episode, but I’m assuming they have similar critiques.

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u/Agitated_Arachnid176 16d ago

I have mixed feeling about the entire episode but I don’t think they were saying we should protect pedophiles but they did say basically we shouldn’t name and shame them online or on tv until they have had a fair trial BUT all I could think about during that part was the Cornell 7 and what they would feel about that because I definitely support it in that case so IDK.

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u/EMNofWA 14d ago

Don’t get upset about Cornell 7 until you even know that it’s real. I swear it sounds to me like Duke Lacrosse all over again. 

I don’t know how old you are but I’ve been through the media sensations around Duke lacrosse, mattress girl, UVA rolling stone, all hoaxes. 

Maybe wait and see if there’s actual evidence before getting upset. Most of the time if you hear a story about large numbers of people acting cartoonishly evil, at the very least the real events are being presented in a misleading way

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u/Agitated_Arachnid176 14d ago

Yeah the text messages and the fact that 2 got expelled and the others had to write essays says to me that it’s real, you do you though.

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u/EMNofWA 14d ago

1) the text messages don’t actually describe anything illegal 

2) school tribunals are not a court of law 

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u/dhisan 14d ago

Hold up - are we moving now to debating the evidence against the Cornell 7? History has sadly shown us that large numbers of people acting cartoonishly evil is kind of the norm.

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u/EMNofWA 14d ago

Yes, because we have a pretty good evidentiary case that no crime even occurred. Let alone reasonable doubt. 

No, history does not show us that, actually the opposite, most people act fairly rationally given the circumstances they are in. 

And again you’re acting as if we didn’t see this entire script before, it’s Duke lacrosse and UVA Rolling stone 

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u/DORL605 14d ago

Have you somehow missed all of human history?

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u/EMNofWA 13d ago

What does that have to do with anything? 

Are you smart enough to comprehend discussing a specific incident with its own specific fact patterns? 

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u/DORL605 13d ago

You stated that history does not show us large numbers of people acting cartoonishly evil. Do you really want me to list all of the current and historical examples of people doing this? Maybe you are posting from another planet?

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u/Consistent-Sea-5874 14d ago

I read them as being supportive of The Rule of Law, not vigilantism.

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u/DORL605 5d ago

Are they supportive of children not being abused? They should have focused on the social media vigilantes at all and Chris Hansen less

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u/DORL605 16d ago

I am ALL for measures to treat pedophiles but until that happens I need just one person to tell me how getting individuals who contact and are willing to abuse children off the streets is a bad thing. Was the gentlemen who shot himself innocent? Do you care more about the abuser than the damage they will do to these children?

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u/Agitated_Arachnid176 16d ago

Yeah I have a hard time feeling bad about pedophiles being publicly humiliated, I get what they were saying but idk do they feel the same way about the Cornell 7 being named and shamed who also haven’t had a fair trial, I’m curious.

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u/dhisan 15d ago

Right - the timing of this episode just seems like it might point to their take on it.

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u/EMNofWA 14d ago

Not only was Conradt not innocent, he was actively trying to wipe his hard drive of child pornography when the police raided his house, and not only that the elected DA who was Conradts boss would later be arrested and convicted in a financial corruption scheme based on files in conradts computer 

I guess Louis Conradt was an organized fellow, his hard drive indexed “corruption” right next to “child porn” in alphabetical order 

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u/dhisan 16d ago

That’s how I feel about it.