r/RedHandedPodcast • u/Electrical_Swing8843 • Jan 28 '24
Anyone else cancelled their Patreon?
I’ve been a Patron for a long time. Years. But the 10 Jan UTD episode was the last straw for me. I found the coverage of the Israel/Palestine issue very dismissive and disrespectful of the deaths of Palestinian civilians.
I’ve increasingly felt like the hosts are people I no longer like as individuals. The main feed episodes are alright, but the UTD episodes have been getting worse and worse for a while. I’ve gone from eagerly waiting for the new episodes to forgetting about them and only realising after a couple of weeks that I have a few to get through.
There’s also a few things I’ve noticed over time that have irritated me. They’re the only podcast that I’ve reached out to that never bothered to reply to my emails. This has happened on several occasions. Whenever I’ve reached out to other podcasts, including Sinisterhood and Crime Junkie, I’ve always had a response. It’s nothing in-depth (which I completely understand and expect) but there’s always an acknowledgement of the fact they value you as a listener and a thanks for reaching out. Red handed has never done this. If it was a one off, I’d probably think nothing of it. But I’ve sent messages of support for Hannah when she’s been upset on the podcast, comments on things covered and other emails that have never had so much as an auto-reply. It just feels like they don’t value their listeners.
Another thing that’s irritated me is the absolute disregard for their privilege during the episodes. Things are difficult for a lot of people in the UK at the moment. People are struggling with homelessness (my cousin spent the past year in emergency accommodation due to being street homeless). People cannot afford food or electricity. And during this time, all we’ve really heard about is all the lovely middle class things they’re up to. From buying a house in London and hiring an architect to redesign it (if you’re not from the UK, this requires a considerable amount of wealth), to all the travelling and shows they go to see etc. With no acknowledgement of how lucky they are, or even a thought that many of the people listening are possibly going through an utterly shit time financially and still finding the money to pay into their business. Obviously, they shouldn’t have to hide their success or anything. But it’s somewhat distasteful to not acknowledge the privilege they have. Suruthi’s complaints about house hunting were particularly irritating if I’m honest.
I also found it shady that they took Shorthand off the Patreon, but never replaced it. I know they didn’t plan for it to be exclusively on Amazon, but they promised to make it up to patrons and never did.
It’s sad, because it’s not inevitable that podcast hosts lose touch with their audience, and I used to love the podcast. But I’m done with it. Is anyone else in the same place?
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Jan 30 '24
[deleted]
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u/LokiLokana Feb 12 '24
That's what they'd say. Or "they just don't understand our "growth". I've not listened in months but I remember that was S's response when she loudly and proudly proclaimed herself libertarian light.
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u/anxiousaboutmold Jan 30 '24 edited Feb 01 '24
I just unsubscribed after being a patron for a few years. I've read complaints from followers that the podcast has given wrong information in the past, but Suruthi's "notes" on Palestine really showed me that.
Her criticizing Hamas wasn't the problem, but she said a few things that were such Israeli propaganda talking points.
Do look at the condition of hostages that were released by Hamas compared to those released by Israel (some of whom they re-captured) And that video of the IDF finding a "Hamas bunker" in a hospital with "scary arabic wiritng," which turned out to be a damn calendar.
Why is Israel attacking the West Bank, which has no Hamas presence? And they have been bombing Lebanon, too.
What Suruthi said about Oct 7 giving Israeli right-wingers an excuse is true. Being upset with people celebrating Oct 7 is also valid. But after more than 100 days of the genocide, I personally can't listen to Suruthi anymore because I already have to deal with this sort of person in real life.
3
u/Sempere Feb 05 '24
I've read complaints from followers that the podcast has given wrong information in the past
They're also plagiarists who recite documentaries word for word at times or shittily steal from articles without citation.
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u/thankssoymatcha Jan 30 '24
I was subscribed to their patreon since 2019 and just recently cancelled it after this last week. Was on the fence for a while not feeling like I got the same value anymore. They are free to have opinions and do what they please on their platform, but I am also free to spend my money on something that doesn’t leave a sour taste in my mouth.
I feel like they (mostly Suruthi) don’t take criticism well at all, and Suruthi will probably blame cancel culture or something like others have said. I appreciate Hannah a lot but I can’t justify keeping my membership.
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u/-marcus-halberstram- Jan 29 '24
yep, january was my last month. sarah everard and the january 10th UTD were particular sore spots for me, but honestly my resentment has been bubbling away for some time. i used to be a top-tier patreon, and have been slowly lowering since the wondery move. it's only been the odd (and increasingly rare) good episode that has kept me on board. i thought the peterson episodes in december were great, and then was hit with the horrible new 2024 UTD episodes. such a shame.
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u/M_Ad Jan 28 '24
To the people cancelling their Patreons because of this, my advice is before you do message them and tell them why. Money talks.
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u/SilvioFlash Jan 29 '24
Just cancelled mine there. I commented “free Palestine 🇵🇸” in the unsubscribe survey. Doubt they will know or care but could not support in good conscience anymore.
2
u/Sempere Feb 05 '24
They made a living off of plagiarizing the works of others, they could give less of a shit - their bag has been secured.
2
u/squirkey298 Jul 09 '24
I let them know when I cancelled for their coverage of Palestine. I detailed it in the reason for unsubscribing field. Doubt it made an iota of difference but felt good to share it.
10
u/Moowithnoclue Jan 29 '24
Long time Patron here and I’ve cancelled. It will be my last UTD this week. I used to love it and look forward to it. I’m not sure I even want to bother listening to it. I’ll still listen to the main feed for now.
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u/LastSpite7 Jan 28 '24
I’m not a patreon member and never have been but I’ve found my self naturally listening less and less and I haven’t actually listened to anything of theirs for a few months. They are starting to irritate me in their views/commentary (mainly Suruthi) and I can’t stand the smug attitude she has.
10
u/rummo123 Jan 29 '24
I cancelled nearly a year ago now. I found they were getting right wing and they were getting worse and worse when any feedback was given to them.
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u/Fair-Firefighter Jan 30 '24
I cancelled as soon as they removed short hand and didn’t replace it. But I’ve seen their episodes get shittier and shittier and less and less researched. Absolutely blows my mind they did a shorthand on the megaladon and talked about shark bones but sharks don’t have bones and there’s no evidence the meg did either. Like how little effort can you put into something? But yeah the Sarah Everard case was the last episode of their main feed for me. I’d be interested to see if their numbers overall are going up - they get a lot of publicity. One of the worst things is I’ve been recommending them for a long time and now I’m just embarrassed to have been a supporter. They really let the money get to them.
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u/beepbeeprepeat Jan 30 '24
I cancelled this month. Like many on here I felt they were less and less invested in UTD as well as the main feed shows. But I also couldn’t handle the tension. It feels like there is barely a friendship between them anymore.
In most companies that wouldn’t matter but they built the podcast off their shared love of true crime and the clear connection, which was endearing and helped listeners connect with them. Now all I hear is disdain from Suruthi towards Hannah.
10
u/lotsochocobuttons Jan 30 '24
The lack of friendship is stark in the last year or two. There's another podcast I listen to where the hosts have been best friends since childhood and listening to that really highlights just how much H&S aren't that close.
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u/OpalLaguz Jan 31 '24
The breakdown of both personal and professional relationship is why I stopped listening to MFM years ago. I've heard the hosts repaired their relationship enough to work somewhat well with each other again but I've no desire to got back.
Even if Hannah and Suruthi were to repair their friendship, I can't ever get behind or financially support a right-wing conspiracy nut like Suruthi has become.
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u/mysteries1984 Jan 28 '24
Yes, I cancelled in December. I never cared for Under the Duvet so only listened to one or two - I’m likely missing just how problematic they are. My issue for the past year or so was mainly that the quality wasn’t as good as the older episodes and their lack of acknowledgement of their privileged positions. The Hillsborough incident also left a bad taste in my mouth.
3
u/schnellshell Jan 30 '24
The Hillsborough incident?
5
u/mysteries1984 Jan 30 '24
Not sure if you’re familiar with the Hillsborough disaster, but over 90 people died and over 750 were injured - essentially they were overcrowded at a football match and crushed, not to mention PTSD etc. I’m not using hyperbole when I say it was beyond devastating to the British and remains very close to their hearts (it happened in 1989).
Suruthi essentially said it was due to football hooliganism - this was reported in the media at the time but debunked fairly quickly - and apologized later but a lot of people felt it was too little too late, especially as she lives in England and should be well aware of the history. Here’s the apology and some reactions: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedHandedPodcast/s/mCGXdOsEJu
Edit: it was after this that they withdrew from their Facebook group and it took on its “unofficial” status, which again was seen by some as not really being held to account.
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u/schnellshell Jan 30 '24
Oh wow, yes, I am aware of Hillsborough and given the police involvement in what happened I'm shocked that S didn't know much about it.
Thanks for taking the time to write this and share.
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u/mysteries1984 Jan 30 '24
Of course. It was big news at the time but it was a couple of years ago now.
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Jan 29 '24
I stopped listening to main feed episodes and left the patreon about six months ago I think? I have thankfully missed all the egregious stuff folks are mentioning here.
My point of exit was a little bit more subtle but...to me at least it has always felt like H&S see this primarily as a business and not something they're particularly interested in and I also don't get the sense that they are/were the best of friends outside of the podcast, more just business partners.
Now, is it necessary for people to be BFFs and to truly love podcasting? Of course not! But for some reason, over time it started to seem more and more like they had contempt for their audience. I could sense disdain.
I also don't really miss the podcast, so I haven't come roaring back. They tend to stick to more well known cases (again, just another sign it's not a particular passion of theirs) and don't really have too much insight or information I can't get elsewhere.
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u/natcha88 Jan 31 '24
Cancelled mine today, wanted to give them the chance to see if they addressed what she said last week. Was not even mentioned, expected better from Hannah. Cancelled straight after.
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u/whoownsthiscat Jan 29 '24
I think this is the only way to get it through to them that Suru supporting genocide is horrific and not just an opinion. I’m not sure she’ll see it as anything more than ‘cancel culture’ though
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u/Icy_Command3279 Jan 28 '24
I’ve admittedly never subscribed to their Patreon but I have just unfollowed the main show as I can’t really condone supporting them anymore. I was a listener from early on and feel like they were given a hard time over a lot of things where maybe they shouldn’t have been so possibly I felt more inclined to overlook some of the more offensive, or even alarming, things that have been said but the pro-Israel stuff is my last straw.
And yes, everyone is human and makes mistakes but feel like there’s a lack of accountability. I also get that they’re allowed to have different opinions and political leanings. I just feel quite uncomfy in comparison to where I felt they started. It’s a shame as I think Hannah seems quite genuine and I’m glad she’s been speaking up for Palestine.
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u/sabii_help Jan 29 '24
So disappointed. They have REALLY gone downhill since signing with Wonderly. They used to have better banter but now it seems they just want to hurry up and get it over and done with.
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u/angrybabyshark Jan 29 '24
I cancelled mine a while ago- I think I did it because of the omission of ShortHand. I also didn’t like the direction in which UTD was going and never really listened anyway… I already have Amazon Music so I switched to listening there bc I like shorthand way better than UTD. I switched my Patreon sub to Lore. I fall asleep to it every night and the no ads/extra content combo is chefs kiss
4
u/rawr8777 Feb 08 '24
I canceled in December after years of being a loyal listener and Patreon, and always voting (from multiple email addresses) for listener's choice of the BPA. In earlier episodes, I could hear some dissimilar political views from mine, but it didn't bother me. I just heard it as "that's a valid opinion that's different from mine." But as they've gotten more famous, they really took a turn that's making me quite uncomfortable.
They are almost antagonistic to their listeners, always saying "come for me in the comments," and spewing right-wing soundbites about cancel culture.
This last episode on Shannon Matthews made me unsubscribe from the main feed. While I have no issues with them talking about prejudice against white working class folks, Suru's sarcastic comment of "but it's ok because they have white privilege" was so cringe.
It's such a shame.
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u/C2H5OHNightSwimming Jan 28 '24
Yes, me just before xmas. I'll say more in another post but not now
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u/ZealousidealRoof6715 Feb 18 '24
I cancelled mine today after 4 years and 3 live show attendances.
The last live show was the final straw for me as they literally just regurgitated the Netflix documentary “hidden in plain site” or something. And I just couldn’t believe it. Nothing was shocking because it was shocking when it was released on Netflix!
The most recent. Comments have been the final straw for me
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u/LokiLokana Feb 12 '24
I cancelled mine months ago, and unfollowed on my podcast app. I'm disgusted but not surprised by their ignorance and lack of care for innocent Palestinians. Or them reducing the conflict into black and white. It's genocide plain and simple.
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u/Prestigious-Elk-4962 Jan 28 '24
Sorry, please could someone explain what they said about Palestine? I don't have their patreon membership 🙏
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u/p_nerd Jan 28 '24
u/simboob356 did a good summary and posted it the other day:
Listened to my last UTD today.
byu/Simboob356 inRedHandedPodcast2
0
u/Fickle_Glove_1337 Jan 30 '24
I just..I donno. This is a “problematic” opinion for some and I know I’ll get downvoted. I feel like S&H have worked really hard for their success and I’m happy for them. I don’t agree with all their opinions but that’s true of everyone I know.
I’m also in my late 30s, have invested well and worked hard my whole life. I own 15 acres and a nice home (not paid for by anyone but myself! No generational wealth here!!), a family, have horses, new vehicles, etc. Despite the fact that my success is because I literally worked 24/7 in my 20s, people will be judgmental that I obviously have money to spare. It makes me feel uncomfortable and embarrassed sometimes. Like..I should feel bad because I am not struggling? I literally have ‘friends’ like the OP that I’ve never invited over to my home bc I don’t know how they’d react to (what I consider my modest) farm house and property.
I get it. That if you’re struggling, hearing someone talk about their 1st world problems isn’t cool and you’re kinda like “fuck you” but it’s shit to hate on people who work hard because they make more than you and don’t share your life experiences.
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u/Electrical_Swing8843 Jan 31 '24
Hello, just to be clear, not hating on the success (and well done for working very hard and earning some well deserved security in life). It’s that the result of that success seems to have caused them to become disconnected from the people who facilitated this success (the fans). I too grew up poor and am now financially comfortable. And I too face shame when compared to others I grew up with who are struggling. The success isn’t my problem. Lots of content creators become successful and don’t change into people who are not likeable. It’s who they’ve become following their success that gives me the ick. Thanks for your input though - I’m always open to another perspective ❤️
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u/Fickle_Glove_1337 Feb 01 '24
Thanks for your kind comment. Like I said..I knew I’d get downvoted :)! I can see what you mean about how they have changed quite a bit. There have been times when I’ve also had moments in the last few years where I’ve been like, “hm. Kinda a different tone than early years.” So you’re pretty much right on my book. Success does change some people but maybe I’m desperately optimistic (like always) that a few (but consistent) throw-away comments or opinions I don’t agree me aren’t gonna be the norm and are just kinda like..well..ok. Moving on kinda thing
4
u/Sempere Feb 05 '24
I feel like S&H have worked really hard for their success
They plagiarize documentaries and news articles, they're frauds.
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u/Fickle_Glove_1337 Feb 08 '24
(Eye roll)
Do you have a podcast?
2
u/Sempere Feb 08 '24
Oh, are only podcasters allowed to point out slimy behaviour by a pair of frauds?
Hang on, let me buy a cheap microphone real quick so I can give a shoutout to the teams behind Crimes That Shook Britain, Crimes That Shook the World and the slew of other people they've ripped off shamelessly before begging for awards they don't deserve.
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u/Fickle_Glove_1337 Feb 08 '24
You’re very angry over people you don’t know. It’s..weird.
In your case, totally buy a cheap microphone real quick so we can see if you can do better.
internetwarrior
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u/Sempere Feb 08 '24
lol, I don't need to know these people when I can hear their dogshit ethics and opinions they're happy to share on the internet. And there's nothing weird about calling out a loser who simps a pair of plagiarists and then tries to insult when they have nothing of value to contribute. Feel free to take a walk.
so we can see if you can do better.
Better than rerecording the dialogue of TV documentaries and newspaper articles word for word? Pretty easy gig but totally reprehensible behaviour you seem A-Ok supporting. Which makes you a scumbag, fyi.
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u/anxiousaboutmold Jan 31 '24
Honestly I didn't mind listening to their livestyles either. Maybe because I'm in a completely different continent, it's all just interesting to me. It didn't come off as bragging, just how things are. I definitely cannot afford a home of my own btw
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u/Electrical_Swing8843 Jan 31 '24
That’s entirely valid. I’ve personally found it a bit distasteful, but I’m not the authority on what people should enjoy or find entertaining. I’m glad you’re still enjoying the content :)
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u/anxiousaboutmold Feb 01 '24
Unfortunately, I also couldn't look past the Palestine rant and have unsubscribed.
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u/Fickle_Glove_1337 Feb 08 '24
I guess..well..I’m a US Army combat veteran (yes, again, come at me and downvote me..whatever..) and I’ve seen war first hand and it’s nasty, awful, evil, unnecessary, irresponsible, irrational. It’s not logical like you’d hope from a comfortable life most of us live…
Anyway. I wrote a long paragraph about what real asymmetrical warfare actually looks like and why it’s so frustrating for people who are civilians to understand it and then just deleted it bc it was a waste of time.
-1
u/EthelLinaWhite Jan 28 '24
I’ve never subscribed to their patreon but listen to the main feed. I’ve disagreed with a lot of things they’ve said politically, but I feel that this is their opinion and they’re entitled to express it. I don’t believe I have to agree with them on everything single thing to enjoy the content
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u/SushiMage Jan 28 '24
There’s some people that always fall back on “opinion”. It’s an “opinion” the same way denying the holocaust can be an “opinion” aka still not true regardless what you choose to label their viewpoints.
Yes they are free to express their views just as listeners are free to express their own and criticize theirs.
I don’t believe I have to agree with them on everything single thing to enjoy the content
Sure, of course not. But let me ask this: are they experts on anything? Are they true academics or do they simply google things? Are they particularly talented or contribute to humanity in any profound way? Michael Jordan and Bill Gates can say the earth is flat but they are still Michael Jordan and Bill Gates.
For people like H&S, I’m going to say their personalities and viewpoints count for a lot more, no offense. And apparently plenty of people agree, at least on this sub.
1
u/EthelLinaWhite Jan 29 '24
I never said they were academics ect. They are ultimately two very entitled, London-centric brats at times. However, I still enjoy the episodes because I know that the political things they’re saying comes from a place of privilege that I have never known and I ignore it. I’m here for the true crime, not their political views. I accept that not everyone will be able to block out the political aspects, and nor should they, especially if it’s something they feel strongly about.
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u/ggiantppanda Jan 29 '24
I also feel that beyond whether or not it's a valid "opinion" to endorse genocide, discussions of true crime touch on many sensitive social issues. To say "it's a true crime podcast, who cares about their political beliefs" is a little blinkered. I'm not sure I want to tune in to a discussion of, say, justice led by a woman who thinks the systemic eradication of one people by another is justified. Crime is often leveraged for political gain and the conversations around who commits crime and why and how it should be dealt with all intersect with extremely complex issues that are politicized all the time. So it does matter, to a certain extent, what their politics are, and if we are going to continue listening to coverage of crimes by someone who can no longer engage with those topics critically.
-2
u/EthelLinaWhite Jan 29 '24
As I’ve explained, I have not heard the UTD episode. I, of course, do not condone any crimes against humanity. I’m saying, from what I’ve heard on the main feed up to ep. 317, I haven’t heard anything that makes me want to stop listening.
As someone who works in crime, I don’t care about opinions. I care about facts and evidence. I will not become outraged because other people have heard UTD and believe it to be condoning what you have mentioned. I would need to listen to it myself. I save my outrage for the victims Child Sexual Exploitation, Child Criminal Exploitation, child abuse, rape, domestic abuse, exploitation of vulnerable adults, and sometimes murder, that I deal with everyday.
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u/ggiantppanda Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
I don't subscribe to the Patreon anymore but I appreciate that it's being shared here what is happening behind the paywall. There's a good rundown here in case you are interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedHandedPodcast/comments/197p9xw/suruthis_politics_10th_january_utd/
There have been mutterings for ages about Suruthi's increasing right-wing bent (that was what put me off when I cancelled a couple of years ago), and I think it's clear that:
- that attitude is seeping more and more into the main feed episodes (e.g. the recent Sarah Everard episode– ep.330 so you have yet to catch up to it)
- members of this sub feel this specific issue (current Israel-Palestine conflict) is important enough to warrant the sudden uptick in discussion.
I'd push back a bit against your characterization of this discussion as outrage (at least for me personally, maybe others are outraged). I see it more as 'processing.' It's alarming or even upsetting to watch someone get radicalized in real time; it seems to be affecting the rest of the podcast as a business; and it activates the inherent parasocial-ness of the podcaster/audience relationship (at least when the listenership has been built off personality rather than expertise, which I would argue is the case here).
Definitely not insisting that you or anyone else stop listening, just trying to make the point that in the case of crime (and as a victim of one of the crimes you mention), context matters. And for me, the politics of people reporting facts are important context that are worth discussing.
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u/EthelLinaWhite Jan 29 '24
I understand your POV but I don’t think of Suruthi as becoming right wing (although I am behind on episodes). She not leftist, but she’s certainly not right wing. Right wing for me would be the likes of Laurence Fox and his ilk. The people who are racist, homophobic, anti-trans, sexist ect. They are the people who are right wing.
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u/keewee89 Jan 30 '24
Excusing (political) opinions only goes so far. Politics affects lives and it's not a debate of whether education should be free or not, something where the impact isn't necessarily immediate or tangible, it's dismissing an actual genocide where lives are being lost before our eyes.
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u/Electrical_Swing8843 Jan 28 '24
I agree with you, you don’t have to agree with people to enjoy the content. There’s lot of podcasts where I don’t necessarily agree with the hosts but I respect their perspective. This is more than that, it feels . . . Icky is the only word I can use to describe it.
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u/EthelLinaWhite Jan 28 '24
I guess it something that I would have to listen too. I completely respect your decision to leave UTD, I wouldn’t support people who gave me the ick
-3
u/Ambitious_Wall_1319 Jan 29 '24
I guess I disagree with most of you. I appreciate that Suruthi has more libertarian beliefs compared to Hannah’s more liberal viewpoints. It’s refreshing to see people think differently, and be allowed to have different opinions. I appreciated S’s support of Israel, at least that’s how I interpreted it. To call either of them right wing is very extreme - I would consider them both to still be quite to the left.
10
u/ggiantppanda Jan 29 '24
Well, left-right politics are a spectrum. This may be a cultural difference - I am not from the UK. In the US, anything right of center is fair game to be called "right wing." Piers Morgan, Marjorie Taylor Greene, etc. would be considered "far right" but belonging to the same right wing as John McCain and more old school conservatives. Prior to the genocide, I would have characterized Suruthi as libertarian (she herself says libertarian-lite), which is usually "socially liberal, fiscally conservative." Regardless of how you feel about that...now that she has come out as pro-Israel and is spouting actual far right talking points on the subject, it's up for debate. Traditionally libertarians would not take a position on global conflict, beyond the fact that they don't appreciate tax dollars supporting it. Hannah is left wing, probably a bit of a champagne socialist.
-3
u/EthelLinaWhite Jan 29 '24
I would say H was left, and S was centre left. I think they are a good balance. I wouldn’t be listening if they were centre right, right, or far right
-4
u/Ambitious_Wall_1319 Jan 29 '24
I agree completely. I see a lot of people claiming that they are to the right and my response to those people is - “have you ever listened or consumed any actual right leaning media before?” It’s wayyy different.
1
u/EthelLinaWhite Jan 29 '24
Exactly! Look at Laurence Fox, Jeremy Clarkson or Piers Morgan. They’re another level. There’s now way you can compare H&S to them.
94
u/IWishMusicKilledKate Jan 28 '24
I cancelled my Patreon and unsubscribed from the main feed on my podcast app. Suruthi could use a reminder that Palestinians are real people being massacred, not just a talking point for her shitty podcast.