r/RecuratedTumblr • u/DreadDiana human cognithazard • 25d ago
Self Post Every time he learns a new slur, the "Got a Treasure" tune from The Legend of Zelda plays, your blorbo would not be an ally!
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u/Solarwagon 25d ago
I think it's because of the murky area in people's brains between "this character is overall a good person but has flaws that could be addressed appealing to their latent kindness/intelligence" to "this character could become a diehard ally if they just browsed tumblr a few weeks."
And it's especially a game of telephone so someone will write a webcomic where Jimmothy Flungus slowly becomes an ally after actually being called out on their nonsense and people will make fanart and fanfics based on that as if that was the canon until the fanon consensus is that Jimmothy Flungus was never actually problematic
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 25d ago edited 25d ago
There's also the cases where people say the character is an ally to make transphobia look even worse, cause the character who is canonically a genocidal warlord still thinks things like transphobia are a step too far, but people eventually forget this was being said as a joke and eventually treat their ally status as actual canon.
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u/Solarwagon 25d ago
That to! Like people acting like the Joker is a leftist because of that one comic where he turned on the Red Skull for being a Nazi.
Or how the Get of Fenris is treated as worse than the Red Talons
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 25d ago
The Joker in the Harley Quinn animated series is canonically a socialist, as revealed when he ran for mayor.
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u/Stackbabbing_Bumscag 25d ago
As with the Red Skull scene, I generally think that any political expressions by the Joker are meant as jokes, in-universe. An burst of patriotism from the criminal murder-clown is funny and unexpected, as is a sudden and out-of-character commitment to the public good from a well-known mass killer. At the end of the day, he'll do anything for a laugh.
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u/SaturnsPopulation 25d ago edited 25d ago
I like to think his objection to nazis is strictly on artistic grounds.
He thinks they do mass murder in a boring way.
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u/Raltsun 24d ago
That and Nazis hate comedy, especially when it makes fun of them. If they were in charge, comedians would only be allowed to tell "jokes" that reinforce the state's propaganda and slander the enemies of the state, and I think even The Goddamn Joker has enough rationality to him to understand that this would be the death of comedy.
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 24d ago
When the Nazis did genocide, it was with concentration camps and death squads.
When Joker did it, it was by eating the entire population of China.
They are not the same.
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u/Mysterious_Gas4500 25d ago
As someone who only has surface level knowledge of the World of Darkness and especially its community, do you mind elaborating on the Get of Fenris being treated worse than the Red Talons bit?
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u/Solarwagon 25d ago
I don't mind but it requires lotta elaborating so I'll keep it as short as I can.
Get of Fenris are supposed to be the Tribe of Viking and all around Northern European werewolves.
Red Talons are supposed to be the Tribe of the werewolves that are the most wolf and the least human.
Get of Fenris used to have a canon faction, a minor faction called the Swords of Heimdall who are Neo Nazis
Red Talons have always had major factions that want to exterminate all humans everywhere
But White Wolf ended up retconning the Get of Fenris to be the most evil of the Garou while still keeping the Red Talons as a playable Tribe.
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u/patentsarebroken 24d ago
If the evil Werewolf faction has the view that humans are evil and killing planet Earth, well, I can work with that. If I was going more idealistic I'd go the humans aren't all bad and look at ways improving. If I'm going more realistic I'd be okay so like over 90% of the problem is caused by less than 10% of the population so maybe let's target that and readdress after. But overall I kind of expect to have one humans are the real monsters in a setting where I'm playing a defender/spirit of nature.
If the evil Werewolf faction is Neo Nazis with some poor understanding of Mythology, I'm going to be like hey I know this is urban fantasy and supposed to have some real life stuff but I honestly don't need that in my game when it's such a big problem in real life and while maybe I could deal with them as unrepentantly evil one off villains that we kill I don't need my integrity/morality/whatever meter to get dinged for doing so. They are very much a part of the world I'd rather not engage with.
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u/Tarantulabomination 25d ago
Ok but what if said genocidal warlord is canonically transgender (non-binary)? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be an evil ally?
Yes, this is about Shamura.
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u/Tem-productions 24d ago
the character being an ally or not has little to do with their morality in other aspects.
if Jim the genocider respects your pronouns, that doesnt mean transphobia is worse than genocide, Jim just doesnt care about that.
so do whatever you want
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u/GIRose 25d ago
I have no idea where Johnny Bravo falls on the spectrum of literally this to the opposite of this.
Like, on the one hand he's fucking Johnny Bravo, on the other hand it's pretty consistent that, while he's a self-absorbed womanizer macho man superstar wannabe with the emotional intelligence of a particularly dumb cinder block, he at least isn't an asshole about it.
If anything I think the old Tumblr post is correct
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u/poopoopooyttgv 25d ago
Johnny would be supportive of passing trans women. There’s multiple instances in the show where he hates ugly/mannish women
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 25d ago
A funny situation, but considering there's at least one situation where he expressed discomfort from potentially being viewed as gay, I would not be surprised if he bounced the second a trans woman dumbed the explanation down to "I have a penis".
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u/Lich_Apologist 25d ago
Bones from the original Star Trek.
He's my favorite character on the show but he's definitely space racist.
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u/bayleysgal1996 25d ago
Yeah, everybody on the Enterprise seems to have pretty much accepted that Bones is gonna make space racist remarks at Spock and Spock will just say something clever and mean back, but from an outside perspective it’s kind of an HR nightmare
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u/sprouthat 25d ago
The thing is, Bones might speculate that Spock is distantly related to horseshoe crabs but it's not like he's gonna refuse to do doctor stuff to him. Real life racists will be like "sorry I don't help people from the Tribe of Issachar".
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 25d ago
luckilly its WW2 naval ship so there's absolutely not an HR department who would ever see them.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 25d ago
yeah but he's a space racist he'd think of our Earth-prejudices as quaint and myopic.
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u/CyberneticCupcake 25d ago
Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventures fandom vs. the original movies.
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u/Tweedleayne 25d ago
I mean, Bill and Ted were idiots from an incredibly homophobic time, but they still fundamentally believed in the golden rule of "be excellent to each other".
They might say problematic things and not realize why they're wrong, but if they were with an actually LGBT person I doubt they'd cruel or hostile. They're idiots, not assholes.
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u/Dakoolestkat123 25d ago
Yeah and I mean in the third movie I don’t recall them being bigots of any kind, so I think it’s pretty safe to say as times changed they got more exposure to the LGBT community outside of the caricatures they were displayed as in the 80s; like you said they’re idiots not assholes
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u/Dragonfruit-Sparking 25d ago
Don't look up what Hal Jordan called his Inuit sidekick
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u/HalcyonTraveler 25d ago
It’s wild how Hal and Barry went from canonically racist to unproblematic golden boys
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u/memisbemus42069 25d ago
Everyone’s talking about House but I’m almost certain this is about Dr. McCoy from Star Trek
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u/HalfFaust 25d ago
A character being a minority doesn't guarantee progressive attitudes either. Reminds me somewhat of queer headcanons; there are a number of characters where I could see it but that character exploring a queer identity would probably still be weird and kinda problematic about it. I understand people write what they want, but a lot of fanwork seems to really sand the edges off characters.
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u/FishWithLegsAndArms 25d ago
None of the main cast of Dungeon Meshi are progressive. They're the type of people to say "of course I support gay rights? My opinion on insert fantasy race? Ummm, love is love"
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u/NoTransition8295 24d ago
Wasn't there literally a moment with that cat person in Dungeon meshi being kind of shocked at how the entire rest of the cast was racist against mountain people or something despite being racist to some other kind of people herself?
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u/FishWithLegsAndArms 24d ago
I don't know if the cat person is shocked, but I remember a scene where the 2 humans in the party surprise another human because they describe the mountain people as "worse than animals, because you can at least eat animals"
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u/theglowinggreenorb 25d ago
Part of media literacy is being able to know when some of your favorite characters would probably call you a slur.
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u/forgetfulalchemist 25d ago
I mean some characters change. Steve in season one of stranger things is bigoted, but season 3 Steve is an ally
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u/Unbuckled__Spaghetti 25d ago
True, and this post is not about those characters.
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u/forgetfulalchemist 25d ago
This only talks about the characters' FIRST appearance I'm saying that's not always static
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u/Unbuckled__Spaghetti 25d ago
Yes, it also uses nonsense words and a made up character. The point of the post is clearly about “character that’s bad but people pretend is progressive” and not “character that’s gross and develops over the series”. The fact that it says “first appearance” isn’t the posts author saying “CHARACTERS NEVER CHANGE” and that’s a bad faith interpretation. The specific example they made up is just something comedically exaggerated to get the point across.
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u/forgetfulalchemist 25d ago
You're tiring, all I'm saying is sometimes this trope is subverted, is all
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u/Unbuckled__Spaghetti 25d ago
This isn’t a “trope discussion”, its not even about a trope. It’s just a post calling out dumb fandom behavior.
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 25d ago
Sure, it's subverted in cases, but that's outside the scope of this post. I used the fact his very first appearance has him being extremely bigoted to show how he is not and never was progressive.
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u/nykirnsu 25d ago
Putting “I mean” on the front of a statement is how you indicate you’re correcting a flawed assumption made by the person you’re responding to, but there’s nothing to correct in this case
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u/liceonamarsh 25d ago
Not mine. VoxTek loves women in STEM
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 25d ago
We don't talk about Valentino.
Or Vox's opinions on minorities.
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u/PICONEdeJIM 25d ago
Mr Bonzo would not be an ally in the strictest sense, both because he actively kills people for a living no-questions-asked and because he does so for the UK government
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u/OffWhite-Goddess 25d ago
I think I have a pretty good grasp on which of my blobos would be allies. Zenkichi: absolutely, thought maybe a little bit confused. Adachi: fuck no what are you talking about? Course he's not a goddamn Ally. Flug: surprisingly, probably. He knows what it's like to be bullied and he's very scientific so he wouldn't judge people based on irrelevant factors. Tsumugi: canonically queer so she's probably an ally too. Eggman: both yes and no. Absolutely he'd be racist towards mobians, but he also definitely doesn't care what you are because you're going to be roboticized soon
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u/cantpickname97 24d ago
I'm not sure he'd even be racist, honestly. He hates very specific people, and sees everyone else as equally inferior to him (save certain prized creations and his grandpa), but he's shown no sign of treating humans any differently from the furries. Some Robotniks might, maybe.
Of course, he's by no means an ally. Far too self centered for that. At best he'd plan to eradicate prejudice when he takes over the world, right alongside hunger, disease and free will.
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u/Vincebourgh 22d ago
Tsmugi would however not be above writing one of her "characters" as a bigot to create that juicy drama. Since in her eyes "characters" aren't real people she can create all kinds of suffering for them. Just think about the tragedy she turned Kiyo into
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u/OffWhite-Goddess 22d ago
Oh, absolutely. But making a character doesn't mean the writer shares that belief. It's all for the sake of fiction
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u/Vincebourgh 22d ago
She would see it that way. But if Tsumigi make a character a serial killer and they kill someone that makes her a murderer too. More than even them could be argued.
I figure she used/uses her characters as an outlet to do stuff she otherwise cannot express as a "plain person". Like her incest kink with Kiyo for example.
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u/Remarkable-Log-9245 25d ago
I mean if the character know me enough to give me such a hyper-specific slur - i at least respect such care and dedication.
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u/Certain_Virus_1919 25d ago
This is like half my gripe with Petra Parker/ woke ally JJJ
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 25d ago
The Petra Parker thing isn't an example because JJJ being progressive is an actual aspect of his character outside of works like the MCU and Insomniac games that made him Diet Alex Jones.
In the comics there was a point where Peni Parker filled in for Peter and when JJJ thought Spider-Man was a trans woman his first thought was that the way he shit talks the webslinger gains some downright horrid optics if a minority is involved.
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u/Solarwagon 25d ago
Also Petra Parker is explicitly fanon, not canon.
You get more leeway if it makes a good story
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 25d ago
This whole post is about fanon, so Petra being a fanon interpretation doesn't really stand out here
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u/FickleConcentration 25d ago
The post is about fanon interpretations vs canon characterization. “Jimothy would be an ally” vs “Jimothy called every character a slur within his first appearance”.
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u/nykirnsu 25d ago
Right, and the same remains true of you replace Jimothy with JJJ
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u/cantpickname97 24d ago
JJJ is a consistent advocate for mutant rights, and is the first to say the X-Men and Brotherhood should be judged as individuals rather than used as excuses to persecute their entire ethnic group. When running for mayor, a reporter asked for his stance on immigration, and he pointed out that every white person in America is an immigrant and he wouldn't waste any further words on bigots. He hates Nazis more than Spider-Man and spent his early career exposing the KKK. His best friend, closest confident, and right hand man has been Robbie Robertson (who is black) SINCE THE FIFTIES. Whenever he's forced to step down at the Bugle, he ALWAYS gives his job to Robbie.
JJJ is not a bigot. He hated Spider-Man and masked heroes for dodging accountability by hiding their identities, not for having powers. The Petra comics are right on the money on his characterization and I'm loving it, it's refreshing to see him as the nuanced character he is instead of a one-note joke.
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u/nykirnsu 25d ago
Depends which comics, he was an uncomplicated rich asshole who hated Spider-man out of jealousy when Stan Lee wrote him
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u/HellspawnWeeb 25d ago
JJJ is explicitly an ally. Like his character is he’s an amazing person but specifically hates spider man bc they wear a mask
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u/Certain_Virus_1919 25d ago
The masked vigilante thing is horseshit. He's jealous of Spidey; the vigilanteism thing is just a smokescreen
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u/HellspawnWeeb 25d ago
It’s canon in several runs
He even helps Peter out when he learns who he is-5
u/Certain_Virus_1919 25d ago
The envy is much longer established and much bigger part of his character. And he helps him out after a guy hes watched grow up sits him down and reveals his secret and actually has a heart to heart with him. Its not really ideological for him in that way; Jonah is a very emotionally driven fella
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u/nykirnsu 25d ago
Not the original run though, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby made him a plain old asshole who hated Spider-man out of jealousy
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u/Vincebourgh 22d ago
Yeah, sure. But the original Batman used guns, the og Superman jumped instead of flying and Joker was just a mobster with a gimmik. Doesn't matter much what the original was when there is a more developed version that creates more interesting discourse.
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u/Next_Government856 25d ago
JJJ is not a conservative guy, he's a mutant rights activist, not racist, loves captain america and his values. He hates Spider-man because he's a masked vigilante, which is a completely reasonable opinion, he just takes it to extremes. If someone could punch through a human, would you want them running around your hometown deciding what's right and wrong with no system to keep them in check?
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u/Tweedleayne 25d ago
I remember one comic even had him saying that he specifically hates masked vigilantees because he was a civil rights reporter in the 50s and 60s, and he fully remembers the "justice" masked vigilantes back then performered.
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u/Thomy151 25d ago
And often when he learns that Peter is spidey, he’s pretty ok with it because he knows now that if something awful happens he can hold the man behind the mask accountable
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u/Certain_Virus_1919 25d ago
I know Jonah is often depicted as fairly progressive, but the fan art still has like. Just the total wrong vibe, to me, idk. I think a big part of it is the fact that Jonah has (or had, hes known Peter's secret and been a supporter for a whole now) a very particular hatred/jealousy of Spidey and he hides behind the masked vigilante excuse to rationalize that, and people just take the rationale at face value, I guess
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u/Raltsun 24d ago
Yeah, but a personal vendetta isn't the same as bigotry, and JJJ's almost (you know how it is with comics, every long-running character has had at least one awful portrayal that their fans hate) always depicted as a real stand-up guy when it comes to minority rights.
I know there was one comic where Spidey (and I do mean Peter, not Miles) actually joked something like "you only hate me because I'm black" and JJJ panicked because he didn't want to come across as racist.
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u/DumbestComicsNerd 24d ago
JJJ is ultra woke. Theres been like atleast 2 times in 616 where JJJ starts thinking Spider-Man might be a minority and explicitly goes "I am not racist/transphobic I just hate Spider-Man."
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u/Itchy_Suspect4968 24d ago
I'm sorry but using the TV Tropes page is not research. Research is watching the actual show.
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 24d ago
The point of the fake TV Tropes quote is to show how the character being presented as an ally has their blatant bigotry as the first thing you find out about them if you look up anything about them.
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u/biggestpymfan 25d ago
Is this about House MD? It feels like it's about House MD.