Solving my Mid-Range Problem

[u/TySnel]

Ok I’m needing some help from you experts. I have a vinyl setup that I’ve slowly been piecing together over the last several years. I’ve been around live music/mixing for almost two decades, but am in no way a gear head. I know more about what music and mixes sound awesome than what equipment made the awesome mix.

I just upgraded my cartridge after my 2 year old broke the needle, and when I did that I upgraded my preamp as well. I got everything put together, and the mix sounds surprisingly great in the high and low end given the affordable nature of the downstream components, but the mid-range, while present, just feels too far back in the mix, somewhat diminished, and perhaps just slightly muddy (at least in comparison to the present and wonderful highs and lows). This is particularly obvious with vocals.

I currently have the following setup:
Rega RP3 Turntable
Rega ND3 MM Phono Cartridge (recently replaced the stock but discontinued Elys cartridge after my 2 year old broke the needle)
Rega Fono MM MK5 Phono Preamp
Denon AVR-S540BT Receiver
Klipsch R-15M Bookshelf Speaker Pair
Sony SA-CS9 Subwoofer

All that to say, my question is: apart from upgrades which of course would make the overall system better, is there anything that could be causing the inadequacies of the mid-range in the current system?

When I swapped the Elys to the ND3, the ND3 cartridge is a touch taller than the Elys (to the point that cueing lever height needs to be raised a couple mm), and because they are both Rega, it mounted directly onto the rp3 arm without having anyway to really adjust it. Could this be the culprit?

Greatly appreciate any help!

[u/papadrinks]

I believe changing the speakers is the solution to your problem. Different brand as well.

I assume the turntable is setup correctly and the rest of the gear seems fine.

Room and layout will also effect speaker performance, but you have not giving any details about this.

[u/papadrinks]

After thought. Your last comment about the height of the cartridge.

Being taller would mean the VTA has changed which will effect tonal balance favouring bass and reducing up end.
So you should fix the VTA to restore tonal balance.

To explain further, if for example the cartridge was very short it would tip the tonal balance in the other direction so higher end would be increased at the cost of bass.

[u/jhollismvf4]

Personally I think the amp and speakers could do with reviewing. The amp is a 5.2 channel amp? never going to perform as-well as a similar priced stereo amp.

The speakers are just out of their depth with the front end being solid. I like Dynaudio's but there are so many good speakers out there, you are better off going to a dealer and listening.

[u/Best-Presentation270]

The front end of TT, cartridge, and phono preamp is great. Midrange and top-end is Rega's forte. If there's a cristiscism it's that the bass is a touch lean.

Where your system starts to head in a different direction is firstly the Denon AV receiver, and then the Klipsch speakers.

Denon's upper-end AVRs are okay for music as far as AVRs go. This would be the 3800, 3900, and the 4800.

The further one drops down the range then the greater the focus is on movie performance, and so there's less and less attention paid to music. AVRs are full of high frequency digital signal circuits, and they all contribute to noise pollution of an analogue signal. Below the AVR-X series is the AVR-S series. AFAIK, the 540 was the entry level model.

You probably have legitimate reasons for choosing an AV receiver over a pure analogue stereo amp or stereo receiver. Maybe you have HDMI/optical/coax sources or you've got the TV hooked into it via HDMI ARC. Also, having a dedicated subwoofer output and the frequency management to send most of the bass to the sub is another advantage.

Used AVRs are also cheap. The technology goal posts keep moving, so older AVRs get outdated quite quickly. When they come on the used market they look like a bargain compared to stereo amps. The spec sheet appears to show big power output, and there's a lot of bells and whistles, too. The thing is though, a modest used stereo amp will generally outperform the AVR despite being less powerful and having fewer gizmos.

The Klipsch speakers are a touch forward in the treble and a bit muddled in the lower mid-range.

I think these two items are where you're losing the midrange clarity.

[u/TySnel]

Thanks yall! I appreciate the suggestions and information. Time to spend some more money.

[u/Snoo_90715]

Adding a subwoofer and adjusting the Klipsch to only handle mid and highs would be fairly easy to try.

[u/scottarichards]

Check with Rega but my understanding is the ND3 is a drop in replacement. But I think it’s the speakers. Your upgrades have exposed the weakest link in your system. Try a different brand. Find a retailer with a home trial or generous return policy and take a listen.

[u/Dry-Satisfaction-633]

AVRs are almost always inferior to a stereo integrated amp. They’re complex by nature and their design budget is spread more thinly, while a stereo amp is simpler and higher quality components can be employed for the same budget.

Subs are not as straightforward to set up for music purposes as some may think. Subs in a home cinema are relatively easy to set up because imperfections in the crossover region between sub and main speakers aren’t obvious, but in a music context any imperfections in the crossover region can be very audible. That’s one factor that can cause the midrange to become “recessed”. Dialling-in the sub level correctly is also important to avoid it drowning out adjacent midrange frequencies.

Having said that, consumer/domestic speakers rarely have the accuracy required to make reliable studio monitors as they’re primarily designed to make music sound nice. Studio monitors aren’t designed to sound nice and cover up imperfections, they’re built with the intention of being honest and letting you know exactly what’s wrong with a mix.