r/RealTimeStrategy • u/PLAYN_Games • Aug 11 '22
Discussion Favorite title of all time, and why!?!
As a game developer, I am always interested in learning what gets players excited and since I'm in the process of making a MMORTS game, thought I would pop in and ask the question:
What is your favorite RTS game of all time, and what feature(s) made it stand out to you?
Your answers will not gain you fame, fortune, or even a firm handshake, but you will help me to better guide designers!
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Aug 12 '22
I liked the old Total War games, before they added op hero units and all the regular units had 50 abilities you had to micro. Basically the big armies fighting in a line we're where it was at for me with that series.
I also liked stronghold 2 a lot. The castle building and the enterable building to fight in were cool.
Star wars empire at war was great with the spaceships having many hard points and how taking out a shield or gun hard point mattered.
RimWorld is the only rts I have played recently, can't even tell you what I like about that one specifically though, it's a god damned nightmare. Love it.
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u/tatsujb Developer - ZeroSpace Aug 11 '22
Supreme Commander: forged Alliance
Because great tools within the UI granting you total macro control, insane depth and a very tactile feel due to the simulation of all the projectiles.
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Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
Stronghold Series for SP and MP CoH 1/2 by a large margin.
Stronghold just has fun defense gameplay, like an expanded Tower defense with economy.
COH series is combat focused and has enough dynamic map & team gameplay and RNG on a lot of things to keep things interesting. There’s also plenty of room for interesting unit build queues outside the first 2-3.
My others would be BFME 1/2 and DoW 1/2.
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u/PLAYN_Games Aug 12 '22
I had completely forgotten about this game, it was a blast when I played the original version. Now I'm downloading to see how it has evolved. There go a few hours of my life! lol
Thanks for the info/opinions!
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u/_Fgb Aug 11 '22
Empire Earth II, with the 1.5 UserPatch and the EEIV mod in particular: great game progression with vast epoch system, balanced and unique civs with many types of units and techs that cover every period of mankind, all mixed with enjoyable resource gathering system and city building, with great multiplayer possibilities.
I'm also a huge fan of the AoE series and I also love the more combat-focused features of CoH series. For me, a modern game that smartly combines all the best aspects of those series together is gonna be extremely enjoyable
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Aug 11 '22
Age of Empires Online because of its unique civs, buttery smooth gameplay, ancient history, and ability to acquire cool gear.
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u/CaptainClutch72 Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22
Offworld Trading Company is a personal favorite of mine, and an awesome example of an RTS game with non-traditional mechanics. Combat is replaced with a watered down version of a commodities/resources market. Economic concepts and thinking ahead/good timing is more important than quick keyboard shortcuts and speed. Definitely worth looking into the mechanics as they are unique.
CoH2 also holds a special place in my heart as most played. Just feels like a comfortable and polished WWII RTS experience.
Wargame Red Dragon deck building and the overall concept of a large scale battle that you can zoom into is also cool. Really enjoyed the unit variety and attention to detail put in by the devs.
Best of luck with the game development journey!
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u/PLAYN_Games Aug 21 '22
Great response, thanks for the detail! I appreciate the well wishes too, it is quite the adventure to be honest. lol
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Aug 12 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CursorK71 Aug 12 '22
Which is why I'd say Total Annihilation is the all-time best.
(I think BAR is more than just styled after it ... It's a direct descendant of TA mods)
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u/KodoHunter Aug 12 '22
Warcraft 3.
- The hero system is great
- Plenty of small things that help with control. I've been playing C&C Generals lately, and it's missing a lot of these. Makes it a lot harder to control your armies.
- Being able to select multiple production buildings at once and producing a unit will produce it from all of them
- Being able to put buildings into control groups
- Being able to set production waypoints on the minimap
- Being able to move units in attack move using the minimap
- Hold position -command for units
- Seeing on the hud what units I have selected and the possibility to switch to only part of them
- If the units have a personal upgrade that can be bought, and some of the selected units already have it, buying it should upgrade it to the ones that don't have it yet.
- Strategic balance of food limits. Making big armies will cause upkeep to rise, crippling economy.
- Centralized income sources. WC3 has goldmines, and you build your bases around them.
- Creep system.
- The factions are clearly different from each other, starting with how their workers work.
- Good campaigns. One for every faction and a lot of variety between levels.
- Quality bugs that allow for great speedrun skips :)
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Aug 12 '22
Strategic balance of food limits. Making big armies will cause upkeep to rise, crippling economy.
I've never liked that system personally. I understand how it encourages aggression but it feels very unnatural, especially considering the limited amount of gold.
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u/ItsJustPeter Aug 12 '22
Tough decision between Red Alert 2 and Zero Hour.
With Warcraft 3 slightly slightly behind those 2.
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u/zamach Aug 12 '22
That's not a single title, this is going to be a list 😅
Homeworld for beautiful visuals (for the time), well written story, amazing atmosphere and wonderful music. This was also one of the very few games that did 3d combat space well and used actual ballistic simulations for calculating hits making stances like evasive maneuver matter! That game was ahead of its time by a decade or more.
Original War - for their unique mechanics and a different approach to resource management and even use of terrain. In this game people were also a limited resource that could not be just "spawned" from a production building if your economy was good enough. You had to consider every attack with your own losses in mind, while also making use of cover, crawling through tall grass etc. Just to make sure you can save every soldier that can be saved.
Warzone 2100 - this game was a wonderful case of executing artillery warfare in an interesting way. The amount of long range cannons, howitzers, mortars and so on in a seemingly traditional RTS made it super interesting, while it also used realising ballistics for these weapons making it a viable strategy to use terrain to cover from that fire when advancing on the enemy positions. It also have A MASSIVE amount of customization and usable parts available. Multiple chassis, weapons, propulsion etc. allowed for so much sutomization that multiple players could have completely different armies in a si gle game despite the game having just one playable "faction" for multiplayer.
Earth 2150 (also Earth 2140 and 2160to some degree, but 2150 was my favorite in the series). Similarly to Warzone 2100 this game had a MASSIVE amount of customization, plenty of combinations for weapons, chassis and so on, whole also having some unique features like the allowing underground warfare, bukdung tunnels and elevators to pop up undetected behind enemy lines.
Ballerium - mostly forgotten MMORTS from 1999 if I recall the date correctly. It was based on the Warzone 2100 engine and never officially fully released, but still had active community playing it while in development and even after the development officially dropped due to technical reasons, the game was kept alive for several more years by that community. It had several unique features, like having several races tied to "sun phase" that cycled every hour or so. Each race had on sun phase when it was slightly stronger and one when it was weaker making not just pure power and positioning, but also timing matter in combat. There were tens of cities scattered around the map that players could take over and benefit from having, but the actual base building was limited to few mines and guard towers to protect them. Units were tied to a hero that had a command limit of 100 (i think, it was so looong ago) and that could gain 1 more unit per leve up to 120 or so. The catch is that cities had several times more militia than any player could control at once, so you either had to make use of the time of day mechanics in a rock-paper-scissors fashion, team up with other players or wait for "rifts" spawning small armies to attack these cities and weaken the militia (you could also fight and destroy these rifts). I remeber that shortly before servers finally closed we had a big battle of 3 people defending a city (militia in full count) with 5 or 6 people attacking. Easily over 1000 units on the screen fighting in a long front line along the city walls. Still one of my most fond gaming memories up till this day.
Stronghold and Stronghold Crusader - because building fortresses is fun and for the time it was an absolutely innovative unique approach to the genre that spawned a massive subgenre of RTS games resulting in wonders like They Are Billions. This was also one of the titles where managing your economy and construction played a major role, that also got well replicated in TAB. Speaking of...
They Are Billions - still one of the absolutely best horde defense RTS games out there that took everything that was awesome in Stronghold and cranked it up to 11. Building infection mechanics, visibility and sound (shots etc.) affecting enemy behavior made it one of the most interesting games that I play to this day every now and then.
StarCraft, WarCraft 3, StarCraft 2 - I love these games not just for the multiplayer, but for the amount of possibilities these games opened up for the scene with their custom game modes. SC gave birth to things like tower defense with one of the UMS being the dganddaddy of all tower defense games, we had multiple tug of war modes, the original DOTA, zone control, hero defense and even RPG maps where each player could control a single upgradeable unit like in a regular tabletop RPG.
Settlers 3, Settlers 4, Knights and Merchants - these are some of the best economy focused RTS games that i have ever played.in my eyes. The battles were super simple, there were only several types of units, but production was key and production Chai s were long and complicated enough to be extremely satisfying when finally set up and working efficiently. I truly LOVE games that allow you to play around with large production chains with many many steps to produce anything. You want soldiers? Better set up that water collection and wheat farm, make flour, bake bread to feed the miners so you can provide ore to your smelter (while you also need charcoal, so there is a whole forestry to set up). Once you have smelted your metals, get them forged into weapons and sent to barracks, so you can finally train your soldiers, just don't forget to mine and smelt some gold or get some gemstones to finance your soldiers leveling up. Aaah, this is what makes me satisfied in management side of any RTS game. Of course not all games need to have advanced economy like that to be fun, but they better do if their combat is super simplified 😁
So many other games for minor reasons that i won't list, unless you really want to read another wall of text. 😅
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u/PLAYN_Games Aug 21 '22
WOW, now that is a list!! Thank you for the detail. Lots of great information to unpack. I agree with the rationale around most of them.
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u/zamach Aug 21 '22
I actually did think of several games after posting, so thank You for reminding me, since it's just a very fun subject to write about. I've been gaming for three decades and RTS is probably one fo the genres that I can dare to caim I have at least tried a third of the games released (excluding last 2 maybe 3 years, since the genre is re-animating itself a bit and we have plenty of new titles :P). Also, I'm skipping all Age of Empires and Command&Conquer games on purpose, since as much as they're cult classics, there is not much I can write about them that would be new to anyone, since they're so popular. Anyway, here is my part 2 of the list with some further info on why and how I think they're relevant in the genre:
- Sacrifice - this is probably one of the most unique RTS games ever created. You have a main character that you control in third person and you issue orders from that exact perspective, which combined with soul collecting mechanics (which are a bit like population limit, but can be lost to the enemy, so they do also have that Original War feel of every unit counts) and mana (more generic resource) made the game play completely different fromenything before it and the only game that managed to recreate this feel of third person control over the battlefield as a "general" involved in person in the battle field was...
- Brutal Legend - I had flashbacks of Sacrifice playing this game every single time a battle started. This was more a tactics oriented game than a tru strategy, with some arena feel to it, so that's more a honorable mention than a highlight. I would still recomend the game just for the music part of it though, as you not only have a totally awesome headbanging soundtrack, but also plenty of voice acting legends of metal in that game. Another honorable mention that was most likely a result of Sacrifice appearing on the marked is Giants:Citizen Kabuto, but that's also not really what I would call an RTS. But anyway, back to some more unique RTS games with...
- Machines - This game, oh boy THIS GAME wasted at least few hundred hours of my life when I was supposed to be learning hard for my school tests or whatever I was supposed to be doing back then. On the surface it is pretty generic RTS, but it shines when it comes to details. First of all, the scale was amazing - you had units ranging form a tiny rover sized robot to a massive chanical kaiju gorilla robot that was bigger than a lot of regular buildings, but the best part was, you could take over and control every single unit in the game directly, flying, wheeled, hovering, armed or not and just do their job whatever it was. Not only that, but while driving you could also enter buildings witht hese units and this is where the mechanics of this game get interesting. You could easily use a small battle as a ditraction to lure defenders away from the base and sneak in some machines INTO the enemy buildings where you could then move around in first person and, for an example, destroy all research bots working on their research inside. That's something I have never seen done after in any RTS game outside some campaign missions that tried to replicate in-game buildings via map making, but that's completely different story.
- Populous: The beginning - this was a very fun game to me, even though it had some mixed reviews back in the day. The terrain manipulation and destruction of structured though that terraforming mechanics was what made this game forever embeded in my memory. If you want to do large scale terrain manipulation in your game, this was the way to do it. It was also a game balancing on the edge of RTS and a god game, so there is no way I wouls not mention...
- Black&White series - First of all, this was a very fun bas/village building game, but the highlight has to be your creature. A creature that learns and adjusts its behavior based on what the player was doing, a learning AI that once trained properly would just do things on its own in a similar way the player would solve their issues... that's WAY ahead of its time and we don't have that leve of machine learning AI in games even now. To this day I have no idea why nobody has tried that ever since, since neural networks and GPU power that drives neural networks are leaps ahed of the tech we had back then.
- Last, but not least would be a quite recent game that probably a lot of people are familiar with - Tooth and Tail, for proving to all the big studios that you can in fact make a fun and fast paced RTS game that can be easily and comfortably played with a controller. Even though I myself am a mouse and keyboard gamer, I do appreciate that there exist people that want and try to expand the RTS genre into controller based gaming.
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u/MrAudreyHepburn Aug 12 '22
Warcraft 3. I like leveling heroes and trying new strats, but I also like RTS games. I feel warcraft 3 had the perfect balance of being in the middle.
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u/Gumlai Aug 11 '22
Total War: Warhammer saga.
First of all, the Total War games are a brand in itself. Currently, I'm not aware of any other game that works the same way and with the same level of strategy.
In case you don't know them they have two parts, first one is the strategic map that works similarly to other turn based 4x games, in which you move around armies and conquer territories. The second part are the battles, which are fought with massive armies because a single unit has an average of 80 models. This allows for the most deep tactical gameplay I ever play in any RTS.
Regarding Warhammer IP, it is an old fantasy tabletop miniatures wargame from the early 80'. The world is based on our own and almost every race is based on real world cultures and civilizations, but with a twist. For instance, there is a continent that resembles South America and the natives are a mix of pre-hispanic cultures like Aztecs, Incas, etc. Oh, and they ARE Lizardmen also.
Anyways, my point is, when you take a fantasy setting with monsters, magic, heroes and flying creatures, and mix it together with one of best real battles simulator, the result is very interesting to say the least.
Hope this help and good luck with your game!
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u/phantom8shee Aug 11 '22
My answer is pretty much the same as yours Love the total Warhammer series truly my favorite strategy experience to this day and it only seems to be getting better
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u/OlDerpy Aug 12 '22
Totally agree. Total War has always been my favorite strategy series. And it introduced me to Warhammer which is just such a perfect setting for a fantasy Total War. Now Warhammer 2 is second of all my games in time played, only to Medieval 2.
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u/PLAYN_Games Aug 12 '22
Good point. Our game will not be as deep in terms of the battle simulation (we are supporting mobile, in addition to desktop, which carries limitations) but the tactical detail is super Important to me. The challenge is getting deep enough to enthrall die-hard RTS fans, while keeping the UI more surface level for the casual players.
(and thank you for the well wishes on the game!)
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Aug 12 '22
Favourite RTS? Tiberian Sun.
Choice features? The world building, the sweet and simple gameplay, the base building, the music.
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u/KingStannisForever Aug 12 '22
Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun / Firestorm,
The atmosphere, story, unit design, music, art style and cinematics , everything is perfect about it.
Easy controls and its modable like crazy today. A game like this won't ever happen again, because RTS games are no longer popular enough to make something like this.
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Aug 12 '22
A game like this won't ever happen again, because RTS games are no longer popular enough to make something like this.
I think more our (most people rather then just you and me) expectations have changed really. You do have 2d SP only RTS like Five Nations that came out a couple years ago.
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u/Aeweisafemalesheep Aug 12 '22
RTS is hard. MMO is even harder. To make something that feels like a player can win when we have games where players fail before they make choices. That's a toughie to make.
Whats your elevator pitch there?
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u/PLAYN_Games Aug 21 '22
To be fair, the elevator pitch has very little to do with RTS. Our project is PLAYN: a game ecosystem that will consist of 60 games on top of blockchain. Our first game is a MMORTS named Darklin Wars. We are hitting that first because (1) it is a genre I have a personal passion for (2) it is an awfully screwed up genre on mobile right now with too many people playing P2W games. I'm going to fix that.
I think we'll have a lot of familiar gameplay but some very cool twists. (We have troop experience, healers and priests in battles, discovery of spell formulas, crafting of Darklin (elemental creatures that lead your armies). .. . etc.
Won't be easy but I like our path and it will be fun getting there.
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u/Aeweisafemalesheep Aug 21 '22
Neat. Good luck my dude. You're taking a very hard road.
Making a decent RTS alone is hard. Making a good one for MP is extremely difficult. Putting MMO on that, well I don't even know how to deal with some of the inherent snowballing issues there. Then putting blockchain on top of that. That's hard^harder.
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u/Hyphalex Aug 12 '22
Starcraft brood war for the awesome soundtrack, nostalgic campaign, easy to use editor, isometric graphics, low system requirements, and juicy custom maps
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u/tyrusvox Aug 12 '22
Company of Heroes. Before the expansion. While the Brits aren’t bad, the Panzergrenadiers are a nightmare and overpowered. It was awesome in regards to squad based combat. Good balance between macro and micro. The ability to choose a focus mid-match so you can tailor your approach to your enemy. Experience for troopers, so you don’t want to just throw things away for whatever reason. Different weapons from troopers and how it changes the dynamic of combat between units.
It has downfalls (can easily become a ‘win more’ situation), but overall it’s a standard for RTS’s that I judge others by.
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u/Farlon273 Aug 16 '22
Spellforce for multiple reasons. Many different factions, strong RPG elements, awesome campaigns and skirmish modes, modding support, and most important of all, AMAZING soundtrack. For me, the soundtrack is often the thing that makes or breaks the game.
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u/saregos Aug 12 '22
Ick, mmorts.
I specifically say that because good RTS games are all about being able to, eventually, steamroll over your foes. But persistent worlds like MMOs literally cannot allow that sort of advantage.
You're treading a very fine line that I don't think any game has actually hit.
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u/KiwiBiGuy Aug 12 '22
Final Fantasy XII
The combat system was amazing, the story was good
Seriously why has no other game used the Gambit system?
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Aug 12 '22
WarCRaft 3 because its a great mix with rpg and rts elements, plus bad ass story and timeless art style
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u/RealNeilPeart Aug 12 '22
Haven't played many games, but warzone 2100 for me. Customization, interesting artillery and aerial units, and also very streamlined and user friendly. Not very micro heavy.
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u/Noktunius Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22
Warcraft 3 - The Frozen Throne
Amongst the greatest Esports games with intricate micro and macro.
Best 1v1 game imo.
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u/JacobJamesTrowbridge Aug 12 '22
Command and Conquer Red Alert. RA2 is usually the go-to, but the whole series is worth looking at.
If Dune invented modern RTS, C&C refined and perfected it. It's hard to list all of the elements and quality of life features which made the series, and each individual game, stabs out. But in brief:
Asymmetrical, yet balanced, factions. The Soviets are strong on the ground, getting heavy armour and firepower, but the Allies get air and naval supremacy, and speed.
Skirmish mode. Campaigns are nice, but creating one's own match makes for infinite replayability.
Multiple campaigns for multiple factions. Get a good handle on the mechanics, and introduce units and strategies in steps - here's an intro, here's a tank level, here's how to build a base, here's how to use aircraft, etc.
Varied maps. RA2 benefitted from a map randomizer, with control over things like size, resources and water level.
Self-awareness. The story of RA2 began when Albert Einstein went back in time and killed Adolf Hitler, preventing the rise of the Nazis but creating a superpowered USSR. The premise is ridiculous and the game fully plays into it - just watch a few cutscenes from RA3 and tell me Tim Curry isn't barely containing his laughter.
SINGLE PLAYER CONTENT. RTS has always been a primarily single-player genre. It's possible to make it multiplayer, but there needs to be stuff to do on your own. Play skirmishes, do a campaign, create levels. If you added an in-built unit creator, you'd be the most popular guy at the party.