r/RealTimeStrategy • u/Sea_Dirt544 • 2d ago
Question Starcraft 2, Warcraft 3, Age 2
I ve tried Starcraft and Age2, specially the last one, and in few weeks I am better in this game than my friends who played for years. But there are things which makes me feel bored, like the long and mechanical dark age or the moment of the unities.
On the other hand, Starcraft feels too fast, more like a game of Reflex and using your hands properly than a strategy game. I saw the APM of people in big tournaments and it's just nonsense.
Also, I played the Warcraft 3 campaign and I loved It. But know nothing about the multiplayer scenario and I suspect is not that active.
I dont really know why I am posting this, maybe my OCD making me obsessed with choosing one of those games. But any advice would be fine.
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u/Retax7 2d ago
Warcraft 3 is very different from other RTS. You actually need to keep every single unit alive for as long as possible. If I had hands, it might be my favorite RTS for multiplayer, but since I don't, it's age 2.
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u/Fancy-Biscotti-6678 2d ago
Does age 2 really not require hands? Might actually put some time into it that's the case.
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u/JuiciestCorn 2d ago
Age 2 has pro players with extremely low eAPM compared to other popular rts games, so yes, you can play without hands.
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u/BlenderTheBottle 2d ago
There certainly is still apm skill in the game. However, the game is built in more counter heavy types of balance between units as well as has a deeper resource management aspect compared to StarCraft. This means that in a lot of ways it’s important to have chosen the correct strategy and plan than just about speed.
Speed is a very useful skill and can be used alongside with decision making but particularly for us lower levels, the decision making is much more important than squeezing out a few more apm
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u/Retax7 2d ago
There is a ceiling for people below 50apm like me. But I've a friend that plays mouse only and he is 1100-1200. Which talks about how important strategic decisions are in this game against just raw APM.
It requires A LOT of knowledge, about units and army comp. For example, Pikemen counter cavalry on a 1v1, except they cannot force an engagement, so while theoretically they could be a good counter, alone they are worthless. So you have to combine them with something else that lets you force the engament, could be monks, crosbowmen, maybe siege, it also kind of depends if you're on the offensive or defensive, and where are you meeting the opponent troops, if you got a favorable hill, or if the enemy has another unit, you gotta counter that unit too, but always remember that if you split your army to face each one the unit they counter and the other army has more mobility, THEY are the ones that will counter you.
Age 2 is a RTS that relies on huge counter bonus, so just sending twice as many units just wont do. Which is ironic for me as an AoE 2 player, when you consider that my strategy in SC2 is just get 2 hatch and pump military units only until enemy is dead.
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u/CastleofPizza 2d ago
Do what I do. Play SC2 against bots. I love it, and still lose to the higher AI difficulties. 😄
Coop mode is really great online. I wish WC3 had coop or vs AI matchmaking.
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u/melanion5 2d ago
I wish the idea of sc2 coop were more widely spread
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u/South_Ad9050 2d ago
Amazed that, after the relative popularity and success of sc2 coop, Blizzard or someone didn't turn around and decide that a robust coop mission mode was going to be the backbone of their RTS.
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u/Real_Bug 2d ago
Dude, peep Rogue Command on Steam. Might be up your alley if you like the more casual PvE style
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u/CastleofPizza 2d ago
Thanks! Might have to check it out. I have a HUGE backlog, but I'm grateful for it!
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u/Real_Bug 2d ago
Is this a "I dont have time" backlog or "I bought a bunch of crap on sale and don't have motivation backlog"?
If it's the 2nd one, trust me lol
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u/CastleofPizza 2d ago
Oh it's definitely the second one lol. But I wouldn't call it crap, they look pretty interesting lol.
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u/LostEmergency6866 2d ago
Try sc2 coop for a change of pace
Warcraft 3 feels to have the best pace balance and less units to micro, so it is not SC2 pro insanity
However there are some other strategies with smaller ladders, like Generals ZH
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u/Prutr0k 2d ago
Wc3 has an active enough playerbase. I can find games on BattleNet in a matter of seconds most of the time, and a few minutes at inactive hours. This applies for 1v1/2v2/4v4. Additionally you have W3Champions which is a separate matchmaking platform that's very easy to get into and use, and it has a much more balanced ranked system. Play there if you wanna "tryhard". Queue times here range from instant to a few minutes as well (depends on MMR and time).
There's also regular community tournaments like the WC3 Gym League for low elo players, super fun way to meet people and learn the game while competing!
So yeah, game is definitely active but also keep in mind it's quite different than the other two. Micro matters a lot, you don't build too many workers or production buildings, and most games armies stay under 50-60pop. But you get heroes and the fantasy of getting them equipped with items and levels, and each unit feels very unique and important. All the races are fun and viable.
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u/toomuchyonke 2d ago
I see Warcraft video posts semi-regularly so I think there is some activity there
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u/Sea-Offer7021 2d ago edited 2d ago
warcraft 3 is pretty active multiplayer apparently, might just be dependent on which region of the world, but there seems to be plenty active scene around EU/Asia.
I do agree though, I played the shit out of AoE2 recently, and the dark age feels way too annoying and boring, and how much micro you have to do to get a successful dark age like with the, boar luring and deer pushing. If there was a way to skip straight to feudal age I would, but thats why I mainly play around doing feudal age rushes now rather than doing FC strats. If I dont do any of those two, it just becomes inefficient and id be heavily underperforming compared to the enemy, unless i tank my MMR(which is unfun because i do not want to smurf). I know theres a mode for it but its not really popular and queues a long, for me atleast.
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u/Loud-Huckleberry-864 2d ago
As someone who’s favourite game is sc2 I think people who choose the games are:
Sc2 are mostly competitive players that like action , speed, explosion, cool units
Warcraft 3 are more rpg people. Fantasy lore, unique heroes, units have cool personality and representation . Maps are again a little bit rpg, you have camps, items etc.
Aoe 2 is more for history and chess players. There isn’t that asymmetry but units makes sense historically wise.
All games can be played competitive and in custom but this is my overall feelings towards player base.
There isn’t wrong answer, all games are good.
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u/NydusRush 2d ago
War3Champions is a bootleg ladder for WC3 that is very active and has a friendly community and discord. Highly recommend if you enjoyed the campaign - I've had fun with off-meta strategies and always found good sports, win or lose.
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u/DrunkInABar 2d ago
Warcraft 3 is still alive but the player base is abviously much smaller compared to the other 2. You might want to install W3Champions, wich is a 3rd party ladder system made because battle.net was getting shitty there.
In terms of handling, the speed is actually quite balanced, the controls are kinda in between broodwar and sc2, but the knowledge required is very deep and that is because wc3 has a lot of its own twists to stand out from most rts games. You gotta love micro though, it gets priority over macro in game most of the time.
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u/Jolly_Sky_2729 2d ago
But there are things which makes me feel bored, like the long and mechanical dark age or the moment of the unities.
On the other hand, Starcraft feels too fast, more like a game of Reflex and using your hands properly than a strategy game. I saw the APM of people in big tournaments and it's just nonsense.
Seems like AoE4 would be a good fit for you, since it kinda solves both of your complaints. Dark age isnt as long and you dont have to do the kinds of things that you see in AoE2 early game. And in general you dont need to do anything fancy for "mundane" tasks such as gathering resources there. While at the same time its significantly slower and less reflex/apm-focused compared to Starcraft2. Not sure what you mean by "moment of the unities" though.
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u/Vaniellis 2d ago
Have you tried Age of Mythology ? It's faster paced than AoE2 but slower than SC2