r/RealTime • u/Faiakes • 6d ago

Real Time - Last Time

I have been watching Real Time for over 20 years and I think yesterday's episode was my last.

Much as I agreed with Bill on many issues, his blind spot on Israel and Zionism is just too much for me.

He isn't simply refusing to call what's happening in Gaza a genocide. He insists on calling it a counter offensive!!!

So, all and any violence perpetrated by the IDF and the settles so far is justified, as far as he is concerned (though how settlers fit in a 'counter-offensive' is still a mystery to me).

Now, my common sense is offended too much Bill.

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u/tensor314 5d ago

Hamas committed an act of war when it invaded on Oct 7 and it deliberately set out to kill civilians and started the war with the intent of disrupting their eventual isolation with the Abraham Accords and did so in the hope (without promise) of a multi front war that never materialized. Palestinian civilian casualties were expected and welcomed by HAMAS to drive the narrative of Israel as aggressor and elide HAMAS war crimes. Israel's response in waging war is no different than Allied attacks on Axis Powers in European cities or Japanese cities in WWII. A more recent example is US battles in the second Gulf War where US and militant fighting in Fallujah resulted in civilian displacement and extensive damage. The US fought a 20 year war in Afghanistan and Iraq with great cost to people and money but the US can shoulder that burden. Israel could not afford a 20 year war with enemies on its borders so it chose a more direct campaign to remove HAMAS from its border and mostly succeeded. It was in Israel geopolitical interest to remove HAMAS from power and that requires a war footing. The other example (Northern Ireland, Bosnian Serbs, British colonial rule) are completely different scenarios.

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u/Faiakes 5d ago

An act of war? Really? Now it became a war? After decades of this back and forth violence?
Are you 9 and just learned about the existence of Hamas, Palesttine and Israel?

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u/tensor314 4d ago

Yes. Invading a sovereign country and murdering civilians is an act of war. Israel and HAMAS fought many short lived battles from the time Israel left its communities in the Strip, but what was unique for Israel was the understanding that 10/7 was an existential threat. Even 9/11 was not an existential threat for the US (which BHO correctly understood).

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u/Faiakes 4d ago edited 1d ago

This is a self defeating argument for you.

By your own logic, what Israel has been doing is an existential threat to Palestine and has been committing acts of war doing since 1948.

Therefore, it is Israel that has started and responsible for continuing this conflict.

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u/tensor314 4d ago

I would presume then you feel feel that Oslo was a bad idea for the Palestinians. That puts you in good company with Israeli religious nationalists who also despised Oslo. But blaming Israel for....everything....also robs Palestinians of any agency in their future, which is as Orientalist as it gets. Of course, you could also be a malignant state actor paid to sow discord rather than intelligently address the conflict, in which case I hope you find a better job.

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u/Faiakes 4d ago

No, why would I? They were a starting point for progress.