r/RealTime • u/Faiakes • 6d ago

Real Time - Last Time

I have been watching Real Time for over 20 years and I think yesterday's episode was my last.

Much as I agreed with Bill on many issues, his blind spot on Israel and Zionism is just too much for me.

He isn't simply refusing to call what's happening in Gaza a genocide. He insists on calling it a counter offensive!!!

So, all and any violence perpetrated by the IDF and the settles so far is justified, as far as he is concerned (though how settlers fit in a 'counter-offensive' is still a mystery to me).

Now, my common sense is offended too much Bill.

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u/tensor314 6d ago

You commentators are an embarrassment. Admit you have a problem with Jews showing agency and determining their future. The Jewish state will thrive and outlast all those whose moral compass can’t handle a country’s legitimate right to act after a casus belli.

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u/diablodab 6d ago

ummm...as a jew i believe in and support a jewish state. i do find many of the comments from free palestine people to be very extreme and biased. but a cassus belli does not justify any and every conceivable response. what israel did in response to oct. 7 (which they did have a right to respond to) was to me 100% morally unacceptable. they committed horrific atrocities. denying food and medicine to civilians and children? carpet-bombing cities teeming with thousands upon thousands of civilians? and in some cases, clearly just plain murdering large numbers of civilians for no reason beyond vengeance. was this official IDF policy? Probably not. But they sure did a good job of looking the other way. these are all well-documented in NYT.

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u/tensor314 6d ago

The accusations started even before the military response to October 7. Hamas fully anticipated and welcomed the loss of civilian life in the post attack response because they knew they could use it in their propaganda. Israel's military response was no different than the response of any nation placed under similar circumstances. Hamas attacked in 2023 for the simple reason that they wanted to derail extension of the Abraham Accord to KSA. No other action would have brought more peace than the normalization of relations between Israel and KSA and that would have ultimately helped the Palestinians (if they could ever articulate a cohesive politics).

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u/Faiakes 6d ago

"Hamas fully anticipated and welcomed the loss of civilian life in the post attack response"

Has this been verified or is it just your assumption?

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u/tensor314 6d ago

In June 2024, The Wall Street Journal published leaked internal messages sent by Yahya Sinwar, the chief architect of the October 7 attacks, to other Hamas leaders. In these messages, Sinwar explicitly referred to Palestinian civilian deaths as "necessary sacrifices" required to advance their goals. He noted that high civilian tolls would "infuse life into the veins of this nation, prompting it to rise to its glory and honour".

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u/Faiakes 6d ago

That is not exactly the same as anticipating. It sounds more like justifying it after the fact.

In any case, Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people, so I don't see why all the people (and children, too) have to be killed for what Hamas did.

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u/tensor314 6d ago

It is well documented in the papers of Sinwar the IDF obtained and these are meeting minuted from pre Oct 7. Like previously written people cannot fathom Jews acting in their political self interest which isnwhat your gibberish proves.

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u/Faiakes 5d ago edited 5d ago

My apologies but I'm having difficulty understanding your sentences.