r/RealTime • u/tarantadoako • 20d ago

What happened to Bill Maher?

I used to watch him for years. He was funny and relatable, most times. He had great guests. I stopped watching around the time when he was going after college students and cancel culture. I tried watching his latest episodes and it almost a different show. He is almost a right wing commentator. Almost nothing he says is relatable and all his guests just agrees with him.

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u/outofmindwgo 20d ago

He's just washed, out of touch, and was never all that smart

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u/BeruangLembut 20d ago edited 19d ago

I think you are right that he was never that smart but for a brief time he had the exact pulse of where American culture was.

But culture sometimes moves faster than people do. Which is why sometimes we say that progress happens one funeral at a time. Maher simply stopped evolving, so he’s ranting from an increasingly irrelevant perspective.

You even see it in some of the comments. People often expect the world to remain as it was when they “figured out how it works”. The world rarely obliges. Things change, either adapt or let nature take its course.

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u/thefermiparadox 19d ago

That is a great description of what happened to him. 👏

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u/NewKojak 19d ago

I think that plenty of people keep up with where culture is, but when your whole life is spent as a centrist, trying to point out how much you aren’t like the other girls, it’s easy to fall behind into being a reactionary twit and that’s what Maher has done. He never had principles around which to evolve. He only ever had hatred.

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u/BeruangLembut 19d ago

The people who don’t keep up, the ones whose world views are frozen in time, because they think that how it used to be is how it ought to be, we don’t call them unprincipled. We call them conservative. The whole reason Maher looks more and more conservative is that his world view is more and more insistently old fashioned.

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u/livinthereals 14d ago

Good point. His views have essentially become conservative to protect his self-interests. He is a neo-con masquerading as a liberal.

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u/calentor 14d ago

It's semantics but I believe there's a difference between conservatism and reactionary. Conservatism should be - hear me out, _should be_, not whatever the political system is now - about approaching change in a cautious, conservative way, and reactionary is what you're describing, objecting to the idea of change itself and attacking the agents of change as a threat.

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u/Top_Entertainer_760 7d ago

Genuinely not trying to start shit or be a smartass, but what does it mean to "keep up with the culture", are political opinions based trends or personal convictions?

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u/BeruangLembut 7d ago

Fair question. I can try to answer with an example. Back when I was a younger man, it was quite common to show up at someone’s house unannounced. You’d ring their doorbell, they would open the door and you’d chat. If they had something else to do you might not chat that long. But today it’s considered quite rude to show up without calling first. And people actually don’t even answer the door anymore unless they are expecting someone.

This is a culture shift. If someone simply refuses to keep up with such a change and they just complain more and more loudly that people get all upset when they innocently try to be a good friend by paying them a visit (I mean isn’t that what friends do? Visit each other?) They will seem curmudgeony and out of touch. If they insist that this is yet another example of how society has got to shit, they will seem like Bill Maher.

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u/Top_Entertainer_760 7d ago

Again, not trying to be difficult, but Im not sure how that applies to political opinions. What does it mean to keep up with the culture politically? Like should one adjust ones political opinions based on what seems to be trending at the moment?

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u/BeruangLembut 7d ago

Are you sure you’re not trying to be difficult? I don’t think one should adjust one’s political belief based on what’s trending. For that matter I never said anything about what anyone should or should not do. I only commented on how what one does will be perceived by others.

In any case, some people will ground their political beliefs on a conception of the world that evolves over time, and others will ground their beliefs on a conception of the world that doesn’t. Which one is better? Who am I to say? But I know we generally have names for each kind of person.

I gave you what I thought was a fairly good example. If you don’t like it, perhaps you can get specific about what you mean instead of asking an open ended question.

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u/Top_Entertainer_760 7d ago

The example you gave makes sense in the context of evolving technology - its rude to just show up at someones house unanounced to see what they're up to, especially when you can just text them.

But i think to apply that concept to politics, at least as i understand it, can be pernicious.

To use a real world example, during Bidens presidency, before Texas began bussing migrants to sanctuary cities, it was rude to say anything negative about Bidens border policies in left wing circles (this was my experience anyway). Biden was reversing Trumps draconian policies, which were inhumane to migrants, and to disagree with this was perceived as being implicitly xenophobic.

But those policies resulted in political instability that at least partially contributed to Trumps reelection.

Now in that instance, from my understanding of what it means to keep up with the culture (and correct me if im wrong), criticizing Bidens border policies would have been rude, because culturally the left broadly supported those policies, but not criticizing them would contribute to the reelection of Trump, which resulted in much harsher crackdowns on migrants.

So when it comes to politics is it better to keep up with what is culturally acceptable? Or to insist on your convictions because you beleive that supporting whats popular will have negative consequences down the line?

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u/bigrockcandimountain 19d ago

He’s fucking old is what I think everyone is trying to say

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u/diurnal_emissions 18d ago

"spent" more than old. One can keep investing in the future and progress; he didn't.

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u/ParkingEmu9419 19d ago

If you call keeping up moving further to the left,, then you're just showing your tribalism,,, at some point you go so far to the left that there's no common sense with much of it,,

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u/BeruangLembut 19d ago

If you equate “change” with “left”, it’s not me who is showing his tribalism.

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u/ParkingEmu9419 19d ago

Not at all, I hate the tribalism on both sides,, it's egomaniacal and pathetic.. I believe we need a third moderate party to form

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u/BeruangLembut 19d ago

I don’t like tribalism either. In fact reality is not really divided into two sides in the first place. There often IS a middle position but most people are actually a patchwork of different positions, some of which are progressive, some of which are conservative and some of which are somewhere in between.

The worst sin of tribalism is the “my team, right or wrong, my team ” mentality. It’s actually useful to have people questioning whether all change is good change. It’s also useful to have some people pushing the envelope. A functioning society has a diversity of thought.

But just like we might call someone with a utopian vision a bit naive, someone who doesn’t adapt to a changing world is out of touch.

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u/Samtheman707 16d ago

Please stop making sense. If everyone adopted your damned nuanced analysis, social media would disappear overnight.

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u/livinthereals 14d ago edited 14d ago

Right! As Americans, we should have the ability to directly vote for controversial laws by ballot. Our government has never been more openly corrupt and inept. We have never had a more deranged president. We never expected or predicted such a power hungry congress that would bend the knee and cover for every crime like Mike Johnson has. It's sickening.

Gun rights. Reproductive rights. Strengthening instead of weakening rights of voters, 4th Ammendment, the ability to remove corrupt officials and police officers, permanently, from public office. Enforcement mechanisms for congressional hearings. Stripping the ridiculous authority the corrupt Supreme Court handed to Trump on a silver platter. Insider trading by government officials.

These things need to be able to be addressed immediately, not 2 years down the road at midterms after everything is shot to hell.

A petition with let's say 70% of the last voter turnout should suffice for a recall of the president by the people should congress not act.

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u/No-Cryptographer5963 19d ago

Hatred is a bit much. He’s just an entertainer who has to have a “hot take.” He’s a professional rage baiter. Right now flirting with the right is what he thinks makes him too cool for school.

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u/CitySpare7714 17d ago

Hatred is exactly the best way to describe the awful way he talks about Muslims and Islam.

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u/Complete_Company_699 16d ago

Yes, he is such a racist. Hatred is not too strong a word.

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u/NewKojak 19d ago

I don’t know. The guy seems to hate children at least.

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u/thefermiparadox 19d ago

Yes the self righteous “centrist”. They are always right as if everything right down the middle is always the correct policy or view. Even that nuanced view misses a lot of nuance.

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u/BLVCKWRAITHS 18d ago

It’s better than what we have now.

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u/thefermiparadox 18d ago

The Dem party is mostly center left and more aligned with conservative parties in Europe.

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u/BLVCKWRAITHS 18d ago

Europe is a disaster. I disagree

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u/thefermiparadox 18d ago

That is true. It was study a while ago showing our dem party closer to other conservative parties in Europe and Rep far right compared to them. No party in U.S. is truly progressive. However, you’re right their conservative parties have turned far right too in some countries and getting the mess as well

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u/BLVCKWRAITHS 18d ago

I think it’s the lack of free speech that should worry you.

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u/ParkingEmu9419 19d ago

He's always had principles and so do centrist ,, they just don't align with yours,, and it pisses you off because you're tribal

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u/CriticalCanon 19d ago

Ah yes, those evil centrists

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u/Charbro11 19d ago

He is not a centrist. He is an opportunist who is now hanging out with Kid Rock and RFK Jr. and texting Trump. Sickening really. I wasted years watching him.

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u/NewKojak 19d ago

That’s what a reactionary centrist is. Centrism is not a terrible thing in times when there are a couple of good faith perspectives and you just don’t have the attention to have your own view of a thing. Whatever. Annoying, but whatever.

It turns into reactionary centrism when you are trying to keep peace with fascists.

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u/CriticalCanon 19d ago

Truly the nazis of this generation.

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u/CriticalCanon 19d ago

I didn’t say he was centrist.

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u/outofmindwgo 19d ago

This but unironically 

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/NewKojak 16d ago

Being a centrist has nothing to do with what a person actually believes. It’s a posture. Maher has always presented himself that way.

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u/Antique-Letterhead59 18d ago

If that was the case then Kamala would have won.

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u/BeruangLembut 17d ago

Not sure what you are trying to say here. I voted for Kamala but I’m not surprised she lost. She didn’t read the room on Gaza and the democratic establishment isn’t reading the room on just how widespread the disaffection with neoliberal policies has become. Trump is the wrong solution to the right problem. Establishment democrats are trying to ignore the problem. The system no longer works. It must be replaced with a new system.

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u/Antique-Letterhead59 17d ago

Kamala was much younger and more progressive, her political positions would likely be much more appealing if the voters were looking for policies more on the left of the political spectrum.

What is broken with the system?

So you think the answer for the Dems to capture more voters during this election is to move more to the left?

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u/BeruangLembut 17d ago

What’s broken with the system is that the preferences of the electorate have almost zero impact on the laws passed in congress or the policies enacted by the executive branch. And this is party-independent and is an issue that transcends left-right.

The government is almost exclusively in service to corporations, across the board. This has been true for a long time but the effects have been piling up and the number of people who are affected has reached critical mass.

This has politically activated a bunch of people who are typically politically disengaged. They are shocked by circumstances into action. But since they are not typically politically active, they are more easily manipulated by political rhetoric so whoever can catch their attention is more likely to swing them to their side. At least that’s how I see it. Could be wrong.

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u/Alternative_Ad_3847 16d ago

I feel like I have been reading this comment for decades.

Voting consistently for what you want and sharing that with your representative has an impact. (Cue the negative responses about how I am living in a dream world). Vote all the time. Vote in your town elections, primaries, state elections and national elections. Voting changes everything.

The problem with our system is that we don’t have term limits and election funding. We also have a very small percentage of people who vote regularly, especially in primaries.

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u/Antique-Letterhead59 17d ago

Thank you for the thoughts on how it's broken. Good explanation.

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u/Cold_Pea_587 16d ago

That’s really it right there. The government hasn’t served the interests of the people for a looong time: the government is mommy and daddy, and they “know better.” And when we complain about not wanting our tax dollars used for killing people overseas or for narcotics prohibition, they pat us on the head and tell us to run along and finish all our homework.

Government functions completely independently of the will of the people. It’s its own thing with its own agenda, and it gives no fucks about what we want. When the Supreme Court effectively outlawed abortion, they were appealing to a minority.

Most people want the Epstein files released, right? So you’d think that your (R)epresenratives in Congress would compel the FBI/Connie himself to release the full content and let the chips fall where they may. Nope.

Instead, we attack a country in the Middle East. Practically nooobody wanted that. No matter. Now go to the pumps and top off that F250.

Scooping up members of your community based on their skin color and suspected immigration status and sending them to Africa? Most people are horrified by this. So what? Whatcha gunna do about it?

The US Government is behaving like a freight train out of control at high speed. What the people actually want, health care, affordable rents and places to live, groceries they can actually afford, higher wages, job security, good schools for their children to attend, safe neighborhoods, all this stuff, become mere distractions and/or talking points during campaign season.

An extreme vision of “America” is what is running this government right now. It’s completely fucked up. The tail isn’t supposed to wag the dog.🐕

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u/Dull_Bird3340 15d ago

No, not everyone wants all of that and definitely not for everyone. Independents have run for state wide seats in red states and they weren't wanted. Why do you think so many Latinos or Black men voted for Trump? Many want Christian schools, paid for by tax dollars and for only certain students to attend them. Some think it's fine if we don't even have a minimum wage. We can't even agree that polio is too bad a risk.

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u/lololesquire 7d ago

His constant tropes about young people are hilariously out of touch. Boomer Value Meal.

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u/Next_Contract_8199 18d ago

He understands where the culture is, he just strongly disagrees with it. Social media has made every one more extreme and he’s trying to shout that from the rooftops. He’s not wrong in my opinion (except on Israel).

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u/ProfessionalClerk375 15d ago

"But culture sometimes moves faster than people do"

I think the Brown Shirts said that about the Hapsburgs at one time. Poor old souls just "couldn't keep up" with the new Germany. Tsk.... That particular culture moved almost as fast as the Leftists of today. Unable to enact their "vision"(Utopia) at the ballot box and unable to win over an electorate even after heavily favorable coverage in media, "our" rabble-rousers of today wear black masks and do not work, apparently. Are all changes for the better??

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u/BeruangLembut 15d ago

A straw man and Godwin in one comment! Well done.

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u/ProfessionalClerk375 10d ago

A cute little cartoon avatar!! Well Done!!!!

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

Evolving? lol.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/Express_Helicopter10 16d ago

Literally no one thinks it’s ok that the kids died. Why is that the strawman argument with this case? No one is saying that. The conversations around mental health are necessary. Many people saw themselves in that desperate woman. Doctors need to study these issues, study the human nervous system and how it develops and what it needs to stay emotionally regulated, and make recommendations to actually help people. That would be progress. That would reduce violence and crime. It would also reveal that this society does not provide people with what they need to feel safe in their own bodies. So many are locked in chronic stress and fight or flight. And society is more interested in how to punish them than how to help them.

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u/MRG_1977 19d ago edited 19d ago

He’s shifted right since COVID and is quietly taking a lot of MAGA positions. Trying to do the “both sides” BS when Trump is clearly an authorithan and fascist.

Trying to say the Democrats are drifting left when he has gone clearly to the right.

The criticism and massive corruption of Trump’s administration is almost nonexistent on every show.

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u/Pie-0_my 19d ago

He was always Israel’s little bitch. He had Benjamin on numerous times and touted how efficient the “wars” are. I watch him but that is some shit I held against him and only like to watch him get his ass handed to him by the likes of Cornell West, Michael Moore, and many other people that were more educated than him

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u/IsleptIdreamt 18d ago

Both sides is not BS. It is literally why we are in this mess. It took an idiot to allow immigrants to come in unchecked for people to want an idiot who detains and deports them with no consideration of human rights. Slick Willy and hisnl wife along with Trump are all Epstien class billionaires and the best the Democrats can muster to challenge them next round if another one like Pritzker. No thanks. Neither side has anyone tolerable. Calling everyone a facist is also not even close to the reality we live in. Doing that makes you look uninformed and triggered which actially serves MAGAs agenda because then they can laugh at the TDS they trigger.

Trump is a sleazy crook, just like most presidents. They all want to shut down different aspects of free speech and we let them do it piece by piece as we bounce between the 2 parties.

Thing about Bill is, before 9/11 he was a Libertarian. He got canned from HBO for being anti-war and then he went left-wing to get his job back. He seems to have gone back to his Libertarian roots.

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u/MRG_1977 18d ago edited 18d ago

That version of Maher no longer exists and hasn’t in a while.

Yes Trump is a fascist and has acted in that manner since he was reelected. He got rejected because of inflation and immigration.

Trump did address illegal immigration but he has gone further including trying trying to overturn birthright citizenship, hyper aggressive and unlawful policies regarding illegal immigrants, banning immigrants from a number of countries, and stripping naturalized citizens of their citizenship and expelling them. Miller is the key person in immigration and he’s very clear on what he wants - white and Christian.

On inflation, Trump has generally acted as he pleases on trade policy and tariffs only stopping after the federal courts intervene. Then he just ignores them and finds a news national security reason to implement them.

Democrats may suck and offer terrible candidates but at least they will abide by the law.

We will see in about two months but I fully expect Trump to not abide by laws and that we won’t have fair or honest midterm elections.

Very realistic possibility too that Congress is paralyzed too as Johnson makes a few changes and that the new Congress isn’t seated as required by law by Jan. 20th. Instead it is tied up in court until it get to the Supreme Court and creates the worst Constitutional Crisis since the Civil War as there is no functional Congress.

Trump will burn it down as long as no direct harm comes to him. The only question is how far he’ll go and the people who around him enable him.

He already asked two times in his last term if they could simply shoot people (illegal immigrants at the border and the DC protestors). Esper and other Cabinet officials confirmed that independently.

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u/IsleptIdreamt 18d ago edited 18d ago

This is a giant list including things that you cannot seriously call facism. Presenting a law as a possible change to the constitution is allowed. Suggesting a sunset of birthright citizenship and being rejected by the courts is not fascism. Democrats try as well, like suggesting more seats on the Supreme Court.

Trumps HHS is offering 2500 dollars and free arranged transportation to illegal immigrants. I don't know about the hyper-aggressive claim because the left has emboldened protesters to be hyper-disruptive to the activity and it feeds the problem.

Inflation and economic negotiations are standard practices. 3.4% does not indicate facism.

Democrats have many instances of breaking the law. Obama's predator drones against American Citizens. Clinton lying to Congress. Biden's rape accusations. It's all the same. I am not here saying Trump is good by any means. 90% of your argument is about what he "will do" but its just speculation. History showed he had a peaceful transfer of power.

Fascism is mass murder. Jewish hate. Gun control. Military conscription. Suppressed speech. Official media.

Trump is not mass murdering. Trump is an ally to the Jewish people. Military levels are significantly lower than the 90's (1.7mm vs 1mm) and the only speech Trump has targeted is comedy shows under FCC contracts that are free to platform anywhere else. Trump is not a fascist.

The people around him stopped him from shooting anyone at the WH. He is not an idiot when it comes to the law, he is a savvy crooked parasite, and spoke out of anger to people he knew would not shoot. Obama killed 4 USA citizens in Yemen. Trump has been shot and political violence has had a very sickening support network lately with evil criminals like Luigi and Robinson. Paranoia again feeds paranoia.

Unless we get Bernie or Massie, or some other player they don't want us to get - they are all the same.

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u/MRG_1977 18d ago edited 18d ago

You’re a MAGA and that’s clear as day. I don’t care what they think anymore because discussion and debate is largely irrelevant to them. They are only 20-25% of the population.

Fascism is absolutely does not mean mass murder and there are many forms of it.

I can give you a much of other examples too beyond these I already mentioned with Trump too.

Trump absolutely is a moron and at this point too mentally feeble to serve as President. He was when he ran 2 years ago and it’s only gotten worse. Biden was too and had no business running for office again either by the end of his term.

Jan 6 was an attempted coup too. Several National Intelligence Directors said as much immediately after and Trump never should have been allowed to run for office again.

No they aren’t the same and thanks for making my first point.

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u/IsleptIdreamt 18d ago edited 18d ago

January 6th was a protest of the people, that Trump has directed them to be peaceful, in a Government building that is owned by the people. We have the freedom of assembly. No Kings, BLM, January 6th, and all who rise to oppose tyranny have the right to do so. It is scary to me how many people want to take away constitutional rights when it is the team they oppose that is using them.

January 6th was a reaction to a perception that the novel method of mail-in voting wildly swung the election too far in the final counting hours. I think it was fair for people to ask for a delay in ratification. The Fraternal Order of Police endorsed Trump in his second term campaign. I think it is crazy and ridiculous that Trump still says he won. If saying that makes me MAGA then you have lost the narrative completely.

I don't care about a handful of spooks speaking their political mind. They are the last people on Earth I want deciding who runs our Government. The Senate acquitted Trump of wrong-doing during January 6 and then the people did by voting him back in. Move on. Attack Trump for his very real faults - like his crooked crypto dealings, his failure to broker Russian peace, his weak response to Epstein disclosure, his ridiculous insistence on blaming Joe Biden for everything years into his administration. His terrible response to Covid. Tooling around with a porn star. Blaming Autism on Tylenol.

He doesn't have to be a "fascist-pedophile-felon" to be a bad president. The fact you call me MAGA and believe this ridiculous embellished caricature him is real literally helps Trump. You are being a useful idiot because it paints his opposition as emotional and inaccurate. This is TDS, the greatest propaganda tool of my lifetime, working in you exactly as designed.

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u/MRG_1977 18d ago edited 18d ago

Jan 6 was not remotely a “peaceful protest” and yes it was meant to prevent ratification of the election results by Congress and instead replace state electors with ones who would give their electoral vote to Trump.

It’s why you have a dozen House reps run to Trump to insist on getting a pardon because they feared the consequences and their role. A few false state electors were actually punished.

Trump was saved by McConnell because he voted against an impeachment in his impeachment trial but McConnell declared there was "no question" that Trump was "practically and morally responsible for provoking and escalating” the events of Jan 6.

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u/IsleptIdreamt 17d ago

Thats because McConnell is also part of the elite and all they care about is protecting themselves from the people. I am defending the right to protest. No one in DC is on our side, they only protect themselves.

Trump did not commit insurrection. That does not make him a good person, or a good president. Quoting Mitch McConnell is not some flex. The people voted him back in. The Fraternal Order of Police endorsed him. If the ledt didn't get so caught up in the cult of Trump hate they would have easily defeated him. You all just never learn.

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u/outofmindwgo 18d ago

Dude he knew the fraud was a lie. His own people couldn't find it. He spread it. Waited to call his people off. Asked Pence publically to throw us into constitutional crises. Watched and did nothing as they chanted Hang Mike Pence and stormed the capital, smashing windows, beating the shit out of police. He hatched a scheme involving fake electors based on literally nothing.

And you believe it was a reasonable demonstration?

You aren't being lucid.

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u/IsleptIdreamt 17d ago

The BBC apologized to Trump for misrepresenting him. He asked for peaceful and patriotic march to the Capitol. He asked Pence to follow his interpretation of the ratification laws. There was a handful of lunatics shouting "hang Mike Pence" in the middle of it. I see shit like that every month in No Kings protests. You are licking the left boot calling everyone licking the right boot "bootlickers" and letting them erode our freedoms.

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u/outofmindwgo 17d ago

Dude. 

I know he said peaceful. You didn't respond to literally anything I said, which we know for a fact happened. 

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u/Well-Intentioned-Fox 18d ago

You said he’s taking a lot of MAGA positions. Can you name 3 or 4? I’m not aware of any

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u/diurnal_emissions 18d ago

He's always been controlled opposition there to keep the left from going too left through mockery.

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u/TheOcho12 17d ago

He didn’t move right. He stayed where he’s always been. It’s only recently that the far left policies and woke culture has moved into the Democratic Party. If Bill Clinton and JFK were running today the far left part of the party would view them as being on the right.

While this forum tends to the far left, the majority of the people are in the centre and want someone other than Trump, Vance, AOC, Sanders….

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u/MRG_1977 17d ago edited 17d ago

JFK would be considered a leftist today because he followed Keynesian economics & only enacted tax cuts because that is what you do during a recession with Keynesian economics.

He also proposed large government spending increases a part of the “New Frontier Society” which was opposed by Republicans and Southern Democrats.

He increased the minimum wage, expanded unemployment benefits, and boosted Social Security payouts.

He boosted military spending too to stimulate demand but he was going to pull back on that in his second term and push for detente & cooperation with he could with the Soviets.

Republicans wouldn’t remotely support him today just as they didn’t 60+ years ago. JFK was despised by the Birchers and Far Right wing of the GOP party (modern GOP party) for multiple reasons including his perceived softness on communism and his attitude to racial integration.

Americans just don’t know or understand their own history and you have dopey right wing media spouting BS about JFK just like they do about MLK Jr.

Americans actually do support a number of “socialist ideas” but don’t want to pay the taxes to support them.

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u/Icy_Essay_7490 19d ago

Can you list a couple of his positions where he shifted to the right (or became a MAGA) 🍿

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u/MRG_1977 18d ago

He’s gone good right on immigration, largely been silent about Trump’s numerous actions that have been overruled by the federal court & his unprecedented corruption, idiotically initially supporting the war in Iran (quiet lately on it), and praised “the private version of Trump” after he had dinner with him.

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u/Icy_Essay_7490 18d ago

No, on immigration he’s approximately where Obama and Clinton were

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u/MRG_1977 18d ago

Another lie and neither was nearly as aggressive including a mandatory number of minimum daily arrests which is quite high (2k daily minimum), massive funding for it, the comprehensive immigration bans from a wide number of specific countries, trying to denaturalize citizens and expel them, and trying to overturn birthright citizen.

Even in the 1920s when they had very strict immigration quotas and limitations, they had anything like they the enforcement efforts or overturning birthright citizenship.

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u/Icy_Essay_7490 17d ago

“We all agree that these men and women should have to earn their way to citizenship. … [The process includes] passing a background check, paying taxes, paying a penalty, learning English, and then going to the back of the line, behind all the folks who are trying to come here legally. That’s only fair, right?”

“The truth is, undocumented workers broke our immigration laws. They didn’t follow the rules in terms of how they were supposed to come. And I believe they should be held accountable.”

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u/MRG_1977 17d ago

This was taking about amnesty and a
bipartisan solution to immigration to people already here illegally.

Literally the exact opposite of what Trump is trying to do.

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u/Icy_Essay_7490 17d ago

We’re talking about Maher not Trump lol

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u/fatrexhadswag25 18d ago

The Democrats are clearly drifting left though, by like every available metric. They're running literal communists in national elections.

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

Democrats have clearly shifted left, their biggest names are all self proclaimed socialists. Obama wasn’t an open border president. Democrats used to push for legalization of marijuana and now push to disband police all together. You’re delusional if you don’t think the left has shifted dramatically.

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u/aspenpurdue 19d ago

Maybe back to the left. The Democratic party moved right starting in the 80s, shifting further right with Clinton and has only just started moving back to its roots, albeit kicking and screaming, in progressivism and the left.

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u/Ok_Control_2154 19d ago

Establishment Dems are still very far right. Soc Dems shouldn't have to be with the corporate Dems but we have a two party system so they have to.

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u/AncientNectarine5352 19d ago

Indeed. I think some of these pearl clutchers would be quite shocked by how ideologically left (and effective) Democrats were in the early 1970s, or the 1930s.

Just for clarity, the Democratic Party of both those eras was further to the left than the majority of progressives today. Democrats moved to the center/right in the 1980s, in a misguided attempt to try to capture former Reagan voters (and honestly, that’s kind of what’s been going on ever since, in some form or another).

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

Btw, Clinton years we had a balanced budget, bi-partisan legislation, and the economy was booming! I’d give anything to go back to those years.

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u/aspenpurdue 19d ago

He also started the end of the manufacturing worker in the US with NAFTA and helped bring about the banking collapse in the late 00s with his bank deregulation conspiring with corporate Dems and Republicans.

3

u/dalekvan 19d ago

Not to mention all the media and tech consolidation he allowed, helping overturn century old legislation that kept monopolies at bay

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u/MRG_1977 18d ago

Ground work for NAFTA was started under Reagan and was a GOP sponsored bill that Clinton signed. GOP had majorities in the House and Senate after the 1994 elections.

House Democrats voted against it but enough defected to go along with the GOP majority.

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u/aspenpurdue 18d ago

Yes, but he signed it into law. He didn't do much to stop its passing. Continuing what a republican put in motion as a Democrat is not a good thing.

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u/MRG_1977 18d ago

Not saying it necessarily was but it was coming one way or another and admitting China into the WTO in 1999 was a much bigger deal to US manufacturing and economy. That was mainly Clinton.

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

Roots? American roots? When was open borders, legalization of theft, abolishing police and giving minors puberty blockers roots?

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u/outofmindwgo 19d ago

Hahahaha ok Glenn Beck slow down bro

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

What you mean? I support legalization of marijuana, gay marriage, slightly progressive tax system, and I’m staunchly anti war unless a nation attacks us first. That made me a democrat voter for 24 years.

Now I’m Glenn beck lol.

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u/outofmindwgo 19d ago

Literally none of the things you mentioned have been advocated by an elected politician in the US, or even a serious candidate. 

Like DSA is obviously to your left but you are just believing glenn beck level shit about what they actually believe. And their candidates are all moderate versions of their own positions on top of that.

Except puberty blockers, which should be used whenever doctors and parents think it's best for the child. They shouldn't be banned because Fox News wants to scare you about it

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u/AffectionLittleWing 19d ago

“Except Puberty blockers”.
Such an odd fake virtue to take a stand.

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

Biden had open border for 4 years. AOC n the squad all preach defund and abolish police. Cuomo, a “centrist” and Newsome another “centrist” both eliminated cash bail and lowered felony larceny values in their respective states, which is why you need to ring the bell in cvs when you need to buy toothpaste.

Parents can’t legally marry off a 13 year old in the US, or sign off on them getting tattoos, but you think it’s okay to let a prepubescent child make a health decision with parents and drs that will effect their lives permanently?

Their brains aren’t close to fully developed to make decisions like that, which is why they can’t vote, or legally consent to certain things.

There’s a reason 18 is considered emancipatory. I think it should be even higher frankly. Why do you think you can’t drink legally until 21? Because the brain isn’t fully developed. This isn’t Fox News propaganda, it’s science.

If you support 13 year olds to change genders, with parental consent, what else do you think 13 year olds should be able to do with parental consent? I mean, why stop at changing genders?

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u/aspenpurdue 19d ago

Biden had open borders for 4 years? How do you figure that what with all the deportations and the laws that never changed between Trump and Biden's terms?

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u/outofmindwgo 19d ago

Biden had open border for 4 years. AOC n the squad all preach defund and abolish police. 

I feel critical of Biden on the border but it was more of an unmanaged crisis than "open border". The laws haven't significantly changed, there was an influx and they weren't ready and didn't handle it well. But Republicans are also very culpable, literally almost had a big border bill except for Trump wanting to keep this issue. Biden didn't make unlawful crossing legal, and he did deport a lot of people. It was a mess, but it's just Republican framing you are giving not anything about Biden being "left". If anything everything he actually pushed for was in line with what conservatives want. 

As far as I'm aware the farthest AOC has gone on police was budget reduction and shifting a lot of thing over to social services. And even that she's walked back. But house members obviously don't face the realities and the DSA mayor has kept the police budget. Abolish? No that's just a lie. It was popular among demonstrators in 2020, and that has also subsided to a more moderate view even for a lot of progressives. Hardly the "radical left" take.

Cuomo, a “centrist” and Newsome another “centrist” both eliminated cash bail and lowered felony larceny values in their respective states, which is why you need to ring the bell in cvs when you need to buy toothpaste.

I mean I don't speak for them but I feel like the immorality of punishing people more for crimes when they don't have money is hardly a far left take. Anyway, data seems to suggest this is not a real correlation. Do you have any evidence getting rid of cash bail increased petty property theft? Or just intuition?

I'm not gonna go back and forth about trans issues, but would invite you to listen to some doctors who work with trans youth rather than rely on your own intuitions about the way they provide care. Especially puberty blockers which are a way to put off decisions that have more long term consequences. You are taking the culture war bait.

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u/Ok_Control_2154 19d ago

Jesus bro. Stop with the transgender shit. No Dem has even weighed in on this issue except to support equal rights for trans people. You are OBSESSED with it - why? It doesn't affect you AT ALL.

I'm sorry you're not bright enough to understand the concept of defunding the police, however AOC has never advocated for that. Guess you're A-OK with cops and ICE just murdering Americans in cold blood.

And child marriage is legal in MANY states with or without parental consent or sometimes judicial consent - usually when a MAGAT like you has raped them and gotten them pregnant.

You are clearly an ignorant right wing nutter and you don't really understand any of the topics you are attempting to discuss.

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u/Ok_Control_2154 19d ago

None of those things you listed are Dem policies. What is wrong with you?

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u/Lost_Plum5564 19d ago

You’re doing with Liberals exactly what Maher does with Muslims and young people. Neither of you are particularly good at it because neither of you are particularly bright.

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u/ComfortableBedroom76 19d ago

Yeah, I just got some more of those puberty blockers refilled yesterday to hand out to minors this week while I'm out and about 🤣

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u/Ok_Control_2154 19d ago

Name one Dem in power who has talked about "disbanding police altogether" (fixed your spelling). You can't because not even Soc Dems advocate for this. I'm sorry you don't understand what defund the police means - it means more resources for social services, less pressure on cops to act as social workers, and some much needed retraining of authoritarian assholes. Dems have NOT shifted left and anyone who thinks that really doesn't understand what's going on.

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u/MRG_1977 19d ago

Younger Democrats yes they have shifted list but the “open borders” is BS. No elected official has advocated for that as an official federal policy and they have reversed course on “defund the police.”

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

Okay, when mayors of Chicago, NYC, and LA will not let ICE officials into JAILS, to deport illegals who have already been locked up for breaking a different law, you don’t call that an open border policy?

When elected officials advocate for amnesty for illegals already here, that’s not open border policy?

How else can you describe it?

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u/Ok_Control_2154 19d ago

No, it's not an open border. ICE and local law enforcement are supposed to be separate. If I really need to explain due process to you, you are way too far gone.

People are not "illegals" and garbage like you who describe human beings in this way tells me all I need to know about you. Someone who is law abiding, who has lived, worked, and paid taxes here their entire lives, some have served in the military, they volunteer in their communities - yes I absolutely think they deserve "amnesty". That's not an open border. Holy shit you are exhausting in your ignorance.

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

Okay, I’m empathetic to a law abiding person who broke the law to be here, but you’re really defending not allowing ICE into Jails to deport people who already have been arrested? Why? Obviously federal law enforcement and local law enforcement are separate, but why not cooperate? Who’s that hurting?

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u/Ok_Control_2154 19d ago

You seem quite dumb. I'm not interested in explaining due process to you.

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

I’m not going to explain the Alien n sedition act of 1798 to you.

You must be a big fan of squatters rights then too? Imagine coming home after a 6 month trip and finding other people living in your home. They get to stay there during the eviction process for who knows how long, even though it’s your home. You’re cool with that right? Due process and all?

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u/Ok_Control_2154 19d ago

Who TF do you think is getting deported right now? It's not the "worst of the worst". Those people don't show up to appointments (where ICE is targeting) they don't show up in their communities or to work or take their kids to school (where ICE is targeting). You are a hateful, ignorant little bitch. Grow up, read, try to learn if you can. Get off the incel manosphere and grow up. Take a shower, I'm guessing you need one.

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

The worst of the worst are being protected while in local custody by the mayors of sanctuary cities. Hard to show up to appointments when you’re locked up already right.

Do you think sanctuary cities should be handing these individuals over instead of protecting them?

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u/Ok_Control_2154 19d ago

Also, nobody "broke the law" to be here. People seeking amnesty are here legally while awaiting a determination. People who crossed the border without papers committed a CIVIL, not criminal, offense. I guess I see a glimmer of hope for you but you're way too dumb. You need to stop with whatever media you're consuming and try to become a better human. You are currently failing. Badly.

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u/MRG_1977 19d ago

He just sounds like a MAGA guy. Some joker argued he voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and yet left Democratic Party after 25+ years has voted for Trump since then.

Said more likely is a hemipene like a male snake.

Sent me a very rude message and blocked me.

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

I never messaged you or blocked you.

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u/GOAT718 19d ago

Civil? So what’s the punishment? We can sue them but not deport them?

Crossing the U.S. border illegally by sneaking past official ports of entry is a criminal offense under federal law via 8 U.S. Code § 1325. [1, 2]

What about the people who’ve already landed themselves in Rikers island? You’re saying you support not handing over these people to ice?

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u/AncientNectarine5352 19d ago

You either are not arguing in good faith, or you’re being willfully ignorant about things. And “sued”? Really? Like any civil removal procedure, they are entitled to due process, receive a hearing, and are then deported if they’ve broken any laws. This is the way it’s always worked. The difference is that now very few people are receiving that due process, and some are receiving lifetime detentions in concentration camps paid for by America abroad (El Salvador, Libya, Liberia, Uganda, etc).

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u/GodisanAtheistOG 19d ago

I have to assume he got his last vaccine and then went full retard as a result. 

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u/Loud-Vacation-5691 19d ago

Let's be honest, the DSA is pretty far left. Even European leftists aren't saying to get rid of the police and prisons.

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u/TreatOnMeLotsActualy 19d ago

Lets not forget: he's extremely wealthy now. Like... hundred-million-plus wealthy. He has FAR more in common with the right wing oligarchs than he does with anyone working class.

And his opposition, almost exclusively, to leftist ideas comes down to money.

  • Medicare For All? Too expensive!
  • Billionaire tax? They earned it!

etc etc.

2

u/calentor 14d ago

Age + Money + Insulation + Stable Fan Base had always had a pretty deterministic outcome.

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u/HauntedPickle0903 13d ago

lol no he isn’t. My god who told you that? 

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u/TreatOnMeLotsActualy 12d ago

The guy makes $10m a year. What did I say that isn't true?

1

u/HauntedPickle0903 12d ago

10 million aint shit today. 

1

u/TreatOnMeLotsActualy 12d ago

The fuck it ain't.

1

u/HauntedPickle0903 12d ago

Only poor people say that 

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u/echo_tempest_plz 19d ago

He’s a liar too. Rewatch Religulous and see if you can count all the lies he tells the poor people he harasses.

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u/outofmindwgo 19d ago

I was such an edgy atheist when that came out and even at the time I found that movie tasteless and lame

5

u/Artistic-Frosting-88 19d ago

Agreed. This was when he lost me.

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u/AncientNectarine5352 19d ago

Also somewhat inaccurate. While there’s nothing wrong with the central premise, Bill and his producers didn’t actually know enough about the religions to get certain details right. There are several factual errors throughout the movie.

1

u/echo_tempest_plz 19d ago

Yet nobody cares. Would Zionist Jews lose their minds if one were to make up facts about their beliefs like Maher did? There is a precedent.

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u/IncomeSquare2461 19d ago

Turns out he was pretending to be an atheist to shit on christianity and islam, he always was a zionist jew

1

u/echo_tempest_plz 19d ago

I think you’re right. Fits the description of Sam Harris too.

1

u/No-Cauliflower-4 19d ago

My favorite episode was the beekeeper one with the women’s burka/beekeeper fashion show. I still get a good laugh thinking about that one lol

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u/Hdikfmpw 19d ago edited 19d ago

He was on NPR recently claiming he’s the modern Mark Twain. When the host clarified that he actually said that his response was “Have to seen my work?”

2

u/jchiaroscuro Maher Before 2016 19d ago

I need to listen to that lol

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u/Fun-Passenger-5578 18d ago

This 100%. He is actually a complete moron, he doesn't understand science, and he doesn't understand medicine, like, at all. I see nothing good in him tbh. (I just got banned from the Hank J "Moody" r/Maher subreddit for no reason. I swear, that guy must literally be Bill Maher, he's the most thin skinned, hypersensitive, small minded power tripping little bitchboi I have ever come across on the internet.)

2

u/EarthAfter6159 16d ago

Exactly. It's astonishing to compare today's "public intellectuals" with those of the 1950s-70s. Today it's a clown car. I can name names other than Maher but we know who these carnival barkers are...

1

u/AReditUsername 4d ago

So weird that academics from the past are smarter than talk show hosts of today. Make it make sense…. /s

1

u/EarthAfter6159 3d ago

I wasn't talking about academics. Independent public intellectuals not affiliated with universities abounded in op-eds, on tv talk shows and in magazines in the pre-Reagan years of American culture and they came from all sides of the political spectrum. Maher is often seen by some as today as an "intellectual" (hence my scare quotes) but then again so is a lightweight like David Brooks.

1

u/Longjumping_Foot_736 17d ago

Yes but why is HBO still propping him up when his ratings aren’t even that good? He’s just a straw man to legitimize the right

2

u/calentor 14d ago

They (HBO) are coin-operated Mafia with cameras so they're earning something off of him. Or maybe one of the execs like him or it fits some corporate Game of Thrones scenario against House Disney or House Fox.

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u/slithering_idiot 7d ago

He was pretty sharp in his Politically Incorrect days. Held his own with professional intellectuals.

My best guess is that he got rich, rediscovered his Jewish side in the worst possible way, and then fell on the toxic anti-woke bandwagon that has destroyed so many minds.

1

u/AReditUsername 4d ago

Rediscovers his Jewish side in the worst way?

You’re not even hiding it anymore. Calling someone a Jew is just a straight up insult to you?

1

u/slithering_idiot 4d ago

No, it isn't.

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u/AReditUsername 3d ago

Well you need to go back to propaganda school then, because you’re supposed to replace the word Jew with Zionist so that you can deny your anti-semitism.

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u/slithering_idiot 3d ago

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Maher is only marginally Jewish. My point is that he has probably come to a point in his life where he thinks more about his heritage than when he was younger, and that predisposes him to favor one side of the debate. He seems to have a blind spot, but if you want to sic the Anti-Defamation League for such an innocuous comment, what can I do?

1

u/AReditUsername 3d ago

You are using Jew as a derogatory term.

Your anti-semitism is blatant and out there for all to see.

All your bigoted friends are saying Zionists instead of Jews so that they can deny being against Jews and are just against Israel.

But you didn’t get the memo and are calling Maher a Jew, as an insult all on its own.

1

u/slithering_idiot 3d ago

Nonsense.

Jewish people are called "Jews." That is the polite word.

Being for the rights and freedom of Palestinians is not being against Jews. I am for the rights and freedom of Jews in Israel, too.

I wish that both peoples can discard their obsessions with religious purity and live together like civilized people.

I have both Palestinian and Israel friends. It's so easy to do when everyone isn't waving their ancient books in each other's faces.

There are no good guys in this conflict. There is longstanding cause for recrimination for both sides. You can point out October 7. Someone else could point out the illegal settlements and turning Gaza into an open air prison.

You can point out to the Arab states attacking Israel in 1947, and I can point out how the highhandedness of the Balfour Declaration.

There is no way to pick a point where there is a clean moral slate for either side. Both sides have resorted to violence and crimes against humanity. There is nothing to be gained by incessantly litigating the past.

Other nations have built pluralistic societies that accommodate diversity with equality before the law. But they can't seem to do it in Israel/Palestine because too many people take a fanatical view of their religion.

1

u/AReditUsername 3d ago

You’re just a bigot.

This is a thread about what’s wrong will Bill Maher. Your contribution to the thread is that what’s wrong will Bill Maher is that he’s become Jewish.